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Great. I don't see any reason you can not have this.

Someone hit on this a little. There is a universal law: PASS OUT WHAT YOU WANT TO RECEIVE. You want more respect, start respecting yourself and everyone else. Start appreciating everyone for who they are. I need support, therefore I support others. By supporting others, I support myself. The more money I pass out, the more money ends up in my bank account. The more I smile at others, the more smiles I get back.

As far as respect, enforceable boundaries are great. I can not control MsR2C, but I can set boundaries. I can control how I react to MsR2C. She no longer controls me.......

Have you read "The secret?"

Wow. I felt some of that. I understand and agree with "you get what you give" and I do try to live it every day. I am still offering the hugs, the good nights, the cards, notes, etc. And the kids offer them to me every day and we end each day in "I love yous." As much as I try to offer them to her, she pushes away. Maybe I need to keep trying, but after trying again and again, I got the advice to and/or naturally wanted to detach.

Reality is that when the EAs happened, I did forgive her. I did sit down with her and try to understand what was missing and what I did wrong. I forgave her again when it happened again. The thing that has stuck with me is that she never asked for forgiveness, but rather joked that I "missed my chance" to be with someone else during that time. Maybe you could read this and think I didnt forgive, but in reality I feel I did but just dont understand.

As time has gone by, we have tried on occasion to talk and explore what needed to change, but generally it has ended in little progress. Frankly, she has refused to engage at that level. Instead, conversations are more transcational and days get filled with kids activities and schedules vs. true sharing and communication. Her not living in the same room has never changed and certainly made it easier to isolate.

I have made mistakes no doubt and I do not put it all on her. I generally do not engage in the arguments and have protected the kids from many, many potential others. But that does not stop the attacks, raised words, etc. I try to not focus on what "she needs to do differently" or her faults. I continue to say good night, try to give hugs to her, and give her the space she wants. But, I do not feel this is a 2-way relationship. Do I trust her - not enough but there are too many stories to post in this forum.

Maybe I need to sit down and say I'm sorry more than I have or more deeply than ever before. It's a good suggestion. I am sorry. I WANT and have wanted this to work or I would have been gone long ago. It would have been a lot easier then.

I have not reminded her of the past nor been the constant critic of her faults. I have tried to do more of what she asked, but it never appears to be enough. And I am not getting much reciprocation. Encouragement and support are missing. But how much more can I give and not get back? How do I get her to engage?

The best way to change her behavior is to change yours. I spend significant time reading self help books. Sounds like you are a giver and she is a taker. Might want to try backing off, work on you for awhile.....

ahhh... have you considered getting yourself a girlfriend?

in fact, I think Mr.McQueen has something there,
she keeps pushing past your boundaries and you keep letting her, she had affairs, she is still mean to you, has more than just freedom, it's almost done to hurt you at this point, no sex, she's hanging around for the money, she doesn't work yet she doesn't mind going out and having fun, she tells you that you are standing in her way, blames you for everything, doesn't say good night, good bye, acknowledge your existence other than to criticize you.

She doesn't respect you.
You don't sound like you have alot of self-respect for yourself just by the sounds of how she runs over you, you're not a doormat, a speed bump or a punching bag.

Women can't love their husbands if they don't respect them.
The attraction has been killed a long time ago, I'm not saying it's impossible to turn this around but it's a herculean task at this point.

She is used to this routine, you've enabled her to be like this.

Do you really want to turn this around?

Are you willing to do what it takes to get some sort of reaction out of her, to flick a few attraction switches, to get her emotions jump started over you?

If you're going to reply, I can't do that because I'm not that kind of person, then it's going to be alot of wasted effort on our parts to provide this instruction.

Just remember, the kind of person you are right now is why she treats you the way she does.

If you are seriously interested in turning this around(even if this doesn't work, this would show you pretty much what your future will be with her if you continue as is)?

Everything is counter-intuitive at this point, it will be the opposite of whatever you've been doing.

Absolutely. If you feel uncomfortable, than it is worth attempting....

lol. i wouldnt go that far......RAWR RAWR

Ok RobX, Steve, and R2C - last night you had me looking at this in a new angle and thinking that maybe I need to say Im sorry and consider her feelings. Tonight, you are pushing me toward a little "me" time and (ahem) interaction. Last night - sefl doubt, tonight - I am smiling.

Yeah, no doubt about the respect. I see and feel that. Not that I am high and mighty but (as I was told by a shrink and see as well) she often responds like a rebellious teenager and makes me the dad that she wants to flip the bird too. When the EAs happened before, I disengaged and went exploring. That did bring a rise out of her. So, no doubt it would again. However, my concern is that she uses it as "justification" or rationalization for her own bad choices. (?) Feel like she's bating me to do so. Trust me, I'd love too, but the guilt may be hard to swallow.

Reacting on last night, I had a long talk with her today - by phone. Seems it is easier to talk that way. Took a stronger stance, but deflected the criticism rather than react to it. Told her I'm done with "limbo" and we are at the fork i nthe road. Either we commit to the work of working on this or commit to ending it. Either way is work and nor promises but tired of the BS and want to accelerate either way. Need to know where she wanted to go. My vote was to work on things, but only if she committed to the WORK involved and there were no promises. Asked her to define what she wanted and needed in a relationship because I am tired of guessing. She couldnt answer but asked if I knew and I said I absoltuely did. She is not hopeful that it can work but did not commit to either course of action (where before she was sold on divorce). I am not going to be a doormat. I am definitely the giver, but not a pushover. Its when I push back that she turns into the teen and all hell breaks loose.

We'll see what the response is. Thoughts?

guess theres no bluffing now.less talk more action. is my suggestion.

Less talk, more action. Ask questions- listen and observe. Set boundaries. Push back and let all hell break loose.

You will get so much advise. Lots of it will be polar. All I can recommend it to do the best you can with what you know. Test the water with "New behavior" and see if R improves or gets worse.

Set intentions:"I want to just listen to spouse and understand their POV without taking their words personally" is much better than "I want better communication with spouse".

Set boundaries:Someone is yelling at you, Calmly say "I would like to understand your POV, but I can't until you speak calmly"

Stop doing what does not work. Do more of what works.