Just wanted to write some stuff here and maybe get some people's thoughts etc.
I'm early 30's (male) and have been married now 3 years. Our sex life has never been great and it's fair to say I'm the more highly sexed spouse. It's been a bit of an issue on and off but I just kept thinking it was going to get better when my wife worked less, when this happened or that happened etc. It came to a head earlier this year (about April I think) and we decided to try and do something about it. I got TSSM book and read it and then gave it to my wife to read. She's not the biggest reader and managed about half way through and that was about that. She's not the most open of individuals and tends to keep things inside rather than bring them out. This is what her family is like and what she grew up with.
We were away in the summer and again our sex life was pretty much non-existent and it was really hard to feel pushed away and isolated when I was hoping we would be able to be close. When we came back I basically said we can't go on like this and we won't unless we get something sorted. We got another copy of the TSSM book and have been reading a chapter a week and then spending some time on a Saturday morning discussing it. It's helped a bit and it does seem like she's making more of an effort but we set aside that time on a Saturday morning and a Tuesday evening to try and be a little more intimate. Problem is that there have been a couple of times over the last 4 – 6 weeks when this hasn’t really gone anywhere and it’s just really hard because that’s (another) rejection. Or if she does something it’s like she’s not really there and just doing it but hating it and if that’s the case I’d rather not do it either, that’s not how it’s supposed to be.
This of course leads to tension and then I get distant because I’m feeling pushed away and sensitive which makes her want to do things even less. The last week or so have been really hard and I’m really starting to wonder if we can make it through this. We just seem to be coming back to the same things and not really making any headway.
It took a while for things to get to this point and it will take a while for things to change... just try to stay focused on the goal.
Try to awaken her in ways other than in the bedroom (those rejections can be very draining and esteem crushing) by simple flirting and innocent touches. Let her know not by words but by actions that you desire her not only physically but emotionally as well. Seek her opinion on things (such as what shirt to buy) and leave her little silly notes in unexpected places. For example, leave a note someplace she will come across it but not out in the open (in the fridge, on the toothpaste tube, etc) saying something like "at this exact moment I am thinking of you".
Remember that romance starts with the mind, so engage her mind with no expectations of ML, before she can reject you, pull back. Not as if to push her away, but the moment you see her tense up simply give her a kiss and pull back.
Maybe making it a game (I will get some bashing for this one)...
No ML for two weeks, but the two of you have to tease each other silly, the winner (the person who gets the other one to 'crack' first) gets to choose the prize that is established when the two weeks start. (Such as a movie night of their choice, a dinner out of their choice or the other doing a chore they hate). We women are a competative bunch and she will probably try to win so that she can have her choice. You cannot choose ML as your prize, it would defeat the purpose, and as the SS partner you will probably lose more often than win, but she will have to work on ways to tease you to win, and in doing so will find the fun in being sexy.
M- 11 y H- 40 Me- 41 D (1st M) 19 S (1st M) 17 First EA (w/OOW)discovered 2000 Third EA (w/OOW & phone) discovered 02/06 SSM (total) 3 1/2 years
Thanks for the support and thoughts there. I'll try and do these things and move it forward. It's just hard when you feel like you're the one that always putting in the effort and trying. It just becomes very emotionally draining. I know she's working too but it's hard for me to see that.
As painful as it is to realise that another day will go by and nothing is going to happen, bathing in that feeling of defeat and frustration doesn't feel too good. Some of the links I have tried to lift my mood even when I don't have what I want are:
a four minute clip on releasing the feeling of Unfair by Dinter:
I have become an expert at holding the feeling of inner complaint about the "unfair" situationn but that blocks me from doing things from a place of hopefulness.
First, understand that you are not alone. This is what brought many of us here (and some others that came here are/were the LD spouse) so we know the pain you are feeling.
That being said, can you give us some more background? Specifically, do you have kids? You said that your SL has never been great, does that count before your marriage? Has anything changed in your marriage or lives (such as other stressors like loss of a job, weight gain, etc.)? Any other information you could provide would be great.
Also, does she believe it is a problem in your relationship or is she just going along with the discussions because you want her to?
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
Some more info. No kids. When we dated she had a bit more of a sex drive but this was dropping even before we got married. Nothing has really changed apart from just the newness of the relationship. I think she is just LD and therefore when we first dated that picked up.
She does now realise that it's a problem in our relationship and that if we want to have a future, or at least a happy one, then we need to work on this. She is working in it but I do think that if she could just ignore it and it not be an issue then that would be easier for her. She does realise too that ML is a normal part of a marriage and that it is something that she struggles with and needs to work on. I know that I'm not always the best for helping her get to that situation where she wants to do that but it's difficult when you've spent years being rejected and nothing seems to really make a concrete difference. I just find it so hard to understand. For me it's so natural to want to do that and of course it's hard not to feel she doesn't feel the same way about me that I feel about her.
Hi S&T, You might want to start a thread over in newcomers, there is just more traffic over there and you will probably get a little more attention.
Its pretty common early in a relationship for someone who is LD to become more HD, and when things start to slow down, it can leave the HD spouse very disappointed. I think that its important for a man to remember that often a man seeks sex to feel close to his W, a woman needs to feel close to her H to want to seek sex. Is there anything that you can think of that might make her feel distant from you?
I remember in my situation, my H would criticize me, I asked him for physical closeness at times other than in bed, I wanted him to hold my hand, he couldnt do that for me, and I firmly beleive that contributed to my lack of desire for sex. He couldnt do the things that made me feel emotionally close to him, and as a result, I couldnt do the things that made him feel physically close to me.
I guess I gave the wrong finger to the wrong man...
I'm early 30's (male) and have been married now 3 years. Our sex life has never been great and it's fair to say I'm the more highly sexed spouse. It's been a bit of an issue on and off but I just kept thinking it was going to get better when my wife worked less, when this happened or that happened etc. It came to a head earlier this year (about April I think) and we decided to try and do something about it. I got TSSM book and read it and then gave it to my wife to read. She's not the biggest reader and managed about half way through and that was about that. She's not the most open of individuals and tends to keep things inside rather than bring them out. This is what her family is like and what she grew up with.
We were away in the summer and again our sex life was pretty much non-existent and it was really hard to feel pushed away and isolated when I was hoping we would be able to be close. When we came back I basically said we can't go on like this and we won't unless we get something sorted. We got another copy of the TSSM book and have been reading a chapter a week and then spending some time on a Saturday morning discussing it. It's helped a bit and it does seem like she's making more of an effort but we set aside that time on a Saturday morning and a Tuesday evening to try and be a little more intimate. Problem is that there have been a couple of times over the last 4 – 6 weeks when this hasn’t really gone anywhere and it’s just really hard because that’s (another) rejection. Or if she does something it’s like she’s not really there and just doing it but hating it and if that’s the case I’d rather not do it either, that’s not how it’s supposed to be.
This of course leads to tension and then I get distant because I’m feeling pushed away and sensitive which makes her want to do things even less. The last week or so have been really hard and I’m really starting to wonder if we can make it through this. We just seem to be coming back to the same things and not really making any headway.
S&T,
Just your screen-name tells me how you're floundering in this marriage.
I am of a very similar age to you and I became conscious of the problem of a SSM about 4 years ago. I would say that my overall story is a positive one - my marriage is no longer sex starved, we've had another child and I've been through some very powerful spiritual growth as well.
There's a lot I could say about all of that, but I'm going to keep it short now and focus in on your options as I see them:
(1) DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH YOUR WIFE UNTIL AND UNLESS YOU HAVE A SEX LIFE YOU CAN LIVE WITH FOR THE NEXT 16/17/18 YEARS. If you look through the threads on this forum you will see that SSMs are miserable but often have to be endured for the sake of the children and/or the couple's finances. I have my own views on that as well, but my essential point is - if sex is already "an issue" having children will inevitably only worsen it.
(2) Having issued that very stark warning, I now point out to you what your options are. You can end this marriage probably with very little difficulty, and find another woman. Or:
(3) You can try to work through the issue with her. Frankly, she does not sound very committed to the idea. However - I don't know the full picture. Nor at this stage do you - sexual interaction in a long term relationship i.e. not the hormonal/chemical rush of the first year or two of a new relationship, depends and is influenced by other factors - emotional, psychological, behavioural. Some of that will be down to you, some of that down to her. You each have a responsibility for your part. Its not a blame game, I hasten to add - and blame and guilt will not kick-start your sex life anyway - my point is simply this: You are in a SSM and whether or not you stay with your wife, it is well worth you figuring out what your part has been in this, so that you don't create the same kind of situation all over again with another woman. Does that make sense? I suspect that the vast majority of men at some stage in their lives have to confront the fact that their woman does not want to have sex with them - its part of the male spiritual journey - you've reached that stage and you may think there's nothing to be lost by trying to figure out why, before deciding what to do next.
(4) Its a mantra of this board that you cannot "fix" your partner, only yourself. With that in mind I suggest you look at these threads, to give you an idea of what causes a SSM and help you work out what ways you've contributed to the current situation:
In addition to The Sex Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis, I would also recommend you read No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover and The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida. NMMNG will help you recognise and break free from any dysfunctional behaviours with regard to sex and marriage, whereas TWOTSM will get you thinking about your purpose in life as a man, how to follow it with passion, and how to gift your wife with your masculine presence. Both books helped me enormously.
There's plenty of reading there for you to do, and thinking. Post again when you're ready. I'm sure other members will post as well.
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
S&A, thanks for the post there. I've had a look at those other 2 threads and they make a lot of sense. The 2nd one especially, I can identify with a lot of what that guy is feeling.
Just pick up on a couple of things. While having kids are something that we would both like in the not too distant future I have said before that it's not an option till we get this issue sorted. I'm not going to bring kids into a relationship that has this sort of issue in it. While I don't think there will ever be a perfect marriage and therefore never a perfect situation for having kids I don't think where we are at at the moment is anywhere near where it should be for that sort of thing.
Of course I've thought about leaving and still do at times. BUT, I love my wife so much and wouldn't want to be with anyone else. We have a great life together and this is really the only issue I have with our marriage and our life. So I'm fully committed to working to sort this issue out.
Just want to give you a little info on what happened yesterday. Was in bed in the morning and chatting and a little bit of touching etc. I asked out ML and she was sort of like "errrmmm.. ok..... hhhhmmmmmm...." she didn't really want to but would because she knew it sort of had to be done... At that moment the phone went and I had to go. She said we would have a nice night and ML later.
So later we went out for dinner, did a bit of shopping and she helped me pick some clothes. Came back and watched a bit of telly and then we went to bed. So at this point I'm on a promise and so I kiss and cuddle a little. She knows that it has to happen but isn't really into it that much although she's trying. It's a bit like trying to get a dead weight involved. I'm doing all the work and there is very little coming from her apart from a few "I'm getting squashed" groans... not the sort of groans I would like to hear from her at this point! Anyway, things move on and we ML but she's just enduring it and so although it is nice in a way I can't help feeling she's just doing it because she feels obliged and for sure she took no pleasure in it.
So that was that. Better than nothing but not great. It's good that she's willing to think about it but we've still not had any sort of breakthrough I don't think.
We're going away tomorrow night for a night so it'll be interesting to see if anything happens there. Often when we're away that is worse because she knows that that is a time when more ML might happen so she pulls away and struggles even more.
