The boys woke up late (8 AM) so by the time I called to let my wife know they were up it was about an hour later than usual. She brought over the stuff she picked up for me at the store. I gave her a hug when I saw her and she asked me to squeeze her tight to crack her back. We sat down and chatted for a while as the boys played. She was wearing a sweatshirt as she said how cold she was. It was really nice out but we joked about how I used to warm her up (that's what we used to call our foreplay time before sex)
We confined to chat and joke for a while. She was there about an hour so I asked if she wanted to grab breakfast. We went and we continued to joke around as we chit chatted. She said she was still cold as she leaned against me to warm up (we were sitting in a booth). I slipped my hand under her shirt to rub her back like I used to. I commented about how cold her sides were. She said she told me that she was really cold and said her butt was as well. She leaned forward which I took as an invite to check her butt. I slipped my hand under her panties and she was right, her butt was cold. She just smiled as I grabbed each check and commented how cold they were. I then asked if she wanted me to turn on her furnace (more of our foreplay talk before we used to has sex). She just smiled and said no.
We continued to joke around and chat until the boys were done eating. They dropped me off at home and she left with the boys
I did the yard work and am just unwinding right now. I'm suppose to go out with my buddies tonite but I am really beat from last nite and today. I really hope I get my second wind as I haven't been out with my buddies in a while
I'm not sad today like I usually am when she takes the boys on Sun. Not sure if I'm just getting used to it or that I had a good interaction with my wife today. I don't know but I'll take it
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
I'm glad you didn't try to knock me out b/c I used the term "boring". I remember doing that about the first time I came on board here and a LBW let me have it! She was not in the right frame of mind to hear me say that I found my LBH "boring". I'm not sure I said "he" was, but my M certainly was. However, the two seem to go hand in hand. You are doing the right thing by staying active and having a good time b/c she is noticing!
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I asked how she was and she said she was really down. She said she didn't go to the picnic yesterday and had been just moping around her apt all day. I told her that she is welcome to join is to watch fireworks if she wants.
This is good b/c she needs to see how it will be in the future if things don't change. The single life is not near as glamerous as WAW's imagine it to be. You did the inviting in a causual way without showing any "urgency" or "neediness" and that is great.
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I called her as I couldn't tell what the picture was that she sent me.
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We didn't get into rehashing the relationship talk but I did tell her that it was a great nite which could only have been better if she was there with me. She asked why since she wasn't being very nice to me. I told her I know she hasn't but she is still my wife and I do think about her often. She said that I should call her if I wanted to. I told her that I'm still trying to respect her time and space but would if that is really what she wanted. She said ok as if she didn't want to talk to me she would just tell me.
Awww.......you just took a step backward... Let me tell you why. B/c she had already let you know she was lonely/bored by her phone conversation earlier. When she sent you that picture (especially, at that time of the evening)....don't you know that that was her saying..."Hey, I'm still bored!" She threw a hook out there and you latched on. You ended up talking to her for 35 minutes and even if you didn't talk about the R, you told her that the only way that would have made the day more perfect was if she had been there. That was a huge NO-NO! Do you know why? B/c it immediately told her how you were still longing for her....and it turned her off! Next time, act as if you had so much fun that you didn't have time to think of her. Next time, do not reply to the picture she sends. No, it is not being impolite (that's an excuse that LBH's use) if you don't reply. It means you are having a life without her and you don't have time. Listen, make her lay in this bed she created! She needs to feel lonely and bored. But, you didn't leave things as they were and you "had" to respond--b/c truth is, that you took that picture she emailed as your "excuse" to talk to her. Right? I KNOW I'm right and you do too... I can almost here you thinking to yourself, "Oh goodie, I can't make out what the picture is suppose to be--so now I have a reason to call her!" Don't be a fool, man....she "knew" what she was doing! If only you would have found out and then said good-bye, it would have still been salvagable, but when you added that last sentence....that blew the effects of the entire day. You come across and "needy & desparate" and she immediately grew bored. The fact that she began yawning....how rude is that! I hope you immediately told her good-bye b/c if that's not a sign you've been on the line too long, I don't know what is.
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She said that I should call her if I wanted to. I told her that I'm still trying to respect her time and space but would if that is really what she wanted. She said ok as if she didn't want to talk to me she would just tell me.
You didn't say what the convo included, but I have a feeling that you were "hinting" about calls is why she said what she did, but at any rate, I can promise you that "you" put waaaay too much into that sentence and you grabbed hold and now you are thinking she's giving you an open door to call her. I bet you even felt better AFTER that call, didn't you? You could not see what you did wrong. It's b/c you are a D.A.M. (as they say around here. And if you don't know what it is, I'll tell you.)
Don't call her! Stop doing that. She has not had time to miss you and until you can show her that you don't care if you EVER talk to her again and you don't care that SHE IS LONELY/BORED, then you will get nowhere. I think you succeeded in turning her off when you "explained" how you were trying to respect her by giving her time and space. That was your way of telling her that she could still have you regardless of how ever much time it took for her, AND SHE HEARD IT LOUD AND CLEAR.
I think I'm going to stop beating around the bush with people from now on and just start telling them to drop the rope right then and there b/c as time goes by, I am more and more convinced that that is the one thing (and many times, the ONLY thing) that works with WAS. If my H would have done that in the beginning, it certainly would have gotten my undivided attention and I certainly would have respected him a heck of a lot more and I would not have done what I did practically under his nose.
I've been reading Fighting Fit's thread and apparently, she was first the WAS and then later her H became the WAS. So, she has it from both sides. In her thread, I read that her H did not play any games at all and stood up to her and let her know that he would be out of her life in every way possible if she did not get her act together and stop her A. He even told her he would use a go-between person to contact her about the children and that she would not even have his phone number or address to know where he lived. She said it scared the mess out of her and she stopped the A right then. Sure, it took her time to get through the grieving process, but it would anyway. But that is the point I want LBH's to see. Stop with all this game playing and stand up and be a man and stop acting so pathetic. I have said from the beginning that she is making way too much contact with you compared to the usual WAW. I don't know why, but I think if you were to emotionally drop her, you would see a huge difference. Am I telling you that I think you sould move away? No. I am saying that you are still holding that darn rope as hard as you can and you need to lay it down....now.
I'm not beating you up, friend......I just get frustrated with you guys.
I'll talk to you later, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
C - I was thinking the same things as I read your post. The SAME things WE have all been telling you from day 1. Which you dont WANT to ACCEPT. She is CAKEEATING!!! You are ENABLING her CAKEEATING!!! Dont know what else to say that hasnt been said already. Stop trying to CONVINCE her to come back. I seen this on this site so much and it never works. It is PURSUING=PRESSURE=UNATTRACTIVE=Why you are on this site?!?
I agree with everything Sandi said. Go dark! I know you are afraid to let her think you are not wanting her anymore. but BINGO!!! that is what we are ALL saying is EXACTLY what SHE needs to think. She NEEDS to think YOU have changed your mind. YOU DONT think shes the right woman for you anymore. YOU DONT want to talk to her. She has ALL the power. She is your PUPPETMASTER. She pulls your string and YOU jump. STOP IT!!! She doesnt want you NOW either way. SO stop worrying about what she thinks about you. It doesnt matter what she thinks right now. SHE is CONFUSED.
Yes. She will REACT with anger. Yes it will appear that she is upset with you. ALL POSTIVES!!! She will be mad because you are not acting like her PUPPET. She will not have CONTROL. She will be forced to take her RESPONSIBILITY for the situation for YOU, HER and the BOYS. I dont understand how come you are not getting this. YOUR WAY is NOT working. Mr. Nice Guy is being treated like crap. The only way she will ever RESPECT you enough to want to TRY again is if you start DEMANDING her RESPECT. End every conversation that turns into her pity party. Be a friend and say that your sorry to hear that but change the convo to you and the boys like most of your friends would.
Dont let her PUNISH you with GUILT anymore. YOU are human! You made some mistakes. Everyone does. You didnt CHEAT. YOU didnt HIT her. Those are the biggies. You HURT her now she gets to PUNISH you for eternity. Grow up!!! She needs to stop blaming everyone else. You need to stop ENABLING her behavior. Keep on responding like you have in both your ACTIONS and WORDS. You respond well with the words "I already aplogized for my part now I dont want to talk about it anymore..." NOW respond with your ACTIONS. I dont feel guilty anymore so I dont need to coddle. Dont need to call and check up. Dont need to support her "physically". Show her by your ACTIONS that YOU are NOT going to let her PUNISH YOU anymore. Get that RESPECT back and you will see some changes from her. If not then there was NO HOPE anyway. At least not now. She is too caught up in the blame game to really WANT to work on things.
END all PHYSICAL CONTACT!!! You are just prolonging the inevitable by ENABLING her. She CANT miss what she STILL has!!! That is what your mising. Keep on repeating this to yourself. I CANT CONVINCE HER TO COME BACK. I HAVE TO DETACH!!! I CANT CONVINCE HER TO COME BACK!!!
Right on Sandi and PMA!! After 2 years of bs in my sitch I finally did this over a month ago. I feel I am truly detached...rope dropped. I never thought I could get here.
In my sitch, man I don’t want high jack you, just want to give an example. Two years of pursuing and kissing A, you know what she said to me once? I was like a puppy dog that wanted affection and there are all these other puppy dogs that don’t. Because I want it she does not want to give it to me, she stopped short but you and I know that the continuation was that she wanted the other puppy dogs …. …. How f’ed up is that?
I was pouring it on because my wife had pretty much the same complaints, does not feel loved felt neglected etc…. I thought that is what she wanted …boy was I wrong.
Anyway I don’t think you are being a puppy dog conf, I think you are one notch above.
The thing is that she knows you are available to her, all she has to do is snap her fingers and you are hers … you need to change that if you want the relationship you deserve with your wife. Let her know you are unavailable. Or better yet leave it has a mystery ….your goal should be that she is not sure if she can have you back.
When I dropped the rope (finally …) over a month ago she at first did nothing. This is because I have acted like I dropped the rope before and then came whining back so it was no big deal to her.
Then I think She noticed that something was different this time. I believe she felt it, she saw it in my eyes, she saw the longing for her and the fear gone, also, most important; I believe she felt the in love feelings die and get replaced with friendship. I believe she was feeding on the in love feelings I had for her and did not want to change anything out of fear that she would loose that.
Then I noticed a “change back” I read this in a book and can’t remember the name but its when you change and your partner does something desperate to get you to change back…. She went bitter for about 10 days She poured it on, ignoring me, would not stay in the same room or talk to me she would not even look at me you know what I mean.
I would have been overly concerned before actually a little scared but now? It did not phase me … In fact I look at how she acting and a I almost laugh it really is like a childs temper tantrum.
As of now I notice changes but I am indifferent to them … its strange and hard to explain. She comes to me and engages me, sits next to me and some physical touch ….I would have been excited about this and jumped all over it before. Basically would put out the flame before it had a chance to burn…. I think my wife is at that point right now where she is not sure if she could have me or not and she testing the water.
I believe I caused this issue to prolong by my prior actions no question … just like I believe that you are prolonging or killing yours…. I know you had questions about this (dropping the rope) your wife called it rude, the simplest way I can explain it is that you treat her exactly like a friend. Compare how you talk and treat girls who are your friends and compare that to how you talk and treat your wife. Treat your wife the same way friends are not rude, they listen and are empathetic you can be those things..but they do not talk about how much they love each and mis each other and all that .you know what I mean. You just need to draw a line.
I'm glad you didn't try to knock me out b/c I used the term "boring".
Sandi,
I couldn't be upset about it because in restrospec, it was boring. I see how she had been trying to tell me that and do things to make it unboring, but I didn't get it then. I get it now. I'm not beating myself up about it (at least not much) anymore, but do see how it was boring when my cousin started talking about that.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Awww.......you just took a step backward... Let me tell you why. B/c she had already let you know she was lonely/bored by her phone conversation earlier. When she sent you that picture (especially, at that time of the evening)....don't you know that that was her saying..."Hey, I'm still bored!" She threw a hook out there and you latched on. You ended up talking to her for 35 minutes and even if you didn't talk about the R, you told her that the only way that would have made the day more perfect was if she had been there. That was a huge NO-NO! Do you know why? B/c it immediately told her how you were still longing for her....and it turned her off! Next time, act as if you had so much fun that you didn't have time to think of her. Next time, do not reply to the picture she sends. No, it is not being impolite (that's an excuse that LBH's use) if you don't reply. It means you are having a life without her and you don't have time. Listen, make her lay in this bed she created! She needs to feel lonely and bored.
I see your point on this. I can see how I slipped up on this one. DOH!
Originally Posted By: sandi2
I think I'm going to stop beating around the bush with people from now on and just start telling them to drop the rope right then and there b/c as time goes by, I am more and more convinced that that is the one thing (and many times, the ONLY thing) that works with WAS. If my H would have done that in the beginning, it certainly would have gotten my undivided attention and I certainly would have respected him a heck of a lot more and I would not have done what I did practically under his nose.
I've been reading Fighting Fit's thread and apparently, she was first the WAS and then later her H became the WAS. So, she has it from both sides. In her thread, I read that her H did not play any games at all and stood up to her and let her know that he would be out of her life in every way possible if she did not get her act together and stop her A. He even told her he would use a go-between person to contact her about the children and that she would not even have his phone number or address to know where he lived. She said it scared the mess out of her and she stopped the A right then. Sure, it took her time to get through the grieving process, but it would anyway. But that is the point I want LBH's to see. Stop with all this game playing and stand up and be a man and stop acting so pathetic. I have said from the beginning that she is making way too much contact with you compared to the usual WAW. I don't know why, but I think if you were to emotionally drop her, you would see a huge difference. Am I telling you that I think you sould move away? No. I am saying that you are still holding that darn rope as hard as you can and you need to lay it down....now.
I'm not beating you up, friend......I just get frustrated with you guys.
I'll talk to you later, Sandi
OWOWOWOWOW - My head is really hurting from your club now. I know you have hit me with the drop the rope club before. I also appreciate you not getting frustrated and giving up on me.
As a DAM, I'm trying not to over think it and just do it.
It is still confusing to me how much contact that she makes. There are the normal tactical stuff, but the chit chat stuff is definitely unusual. Since I've lost my job, I hadn't had a chance to talk to my WAW friend, but she had always said that the last thing she ever wants to do is talk to her LBH and only does it when it's related to their son.
Thanks for dropping by and guiding me back on the path again
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
I agree with everything Sandi said. Go dark! I know you are afraid to let her think you are not wanting her anymore. but BINGO!!! that is what we are ALL saying is EXACTLY what SHE needs to think. She NEEDS to think YOU have changed your mind. YOU DONT think shes the right woman for you anymore. YOU DONT want to talk to her.
PMA_Baby!
I think this had gotten debated/discussed in the past, but I believe Sandi was talking about dropping the rope (which in my mind was stopping being attached emotionally). Doesn't Dark take it to next level of no contact/mysterious? Now from what I understand, it makes it easier to go Dark once you've dropped the rope, but aren't the two different strategies/tactics?
Originally Posted By: PMA_Baby!
End every conversation that turns into her pity party. Be a friend and say that your sorry to hear that but change the convo to you and the boys like most of your friends would.
That's a great suggestion, I'm going to try that next time!
Originally Posted By: PMA_Baby!
You need to stop ENABLING her behavior. Keep on responding like you have in both your ACTIONS and WORDS. You respond well with the words "I already aplogized for my part now I dont want to talk about it anymore..." NOW respond with your ACTIONS. I dont feel guilty anymore so I dont need to coddle. Dont need to call and check up. Dont need to support her "physically". Show her by your ACTIONS that YOU are NOT going to let her PUNISH YOU anymore. Get that RESPECT back and you will see some changes from her. If not then there was NO HOPE anyway. At least not now. She is too caught up in the blame game to really WANT to work on things.
I think part of what's confusing her right now are all these self help books/videos that she has been reading. My cousin had said how she had read one a while back and thought it was full of crap. Where it made you look back at your life and question everything.
My wife is really into the book "The Secret" and has just started the "Science of Success". She even gave me a video this morning to watch of the book. It talks about the power to make your life so much better than it is (I think it's pitch is to unlock the hidden potential). I'm not sure if this is her way of working on herself or maybe it's her obscure way of taking responsibility for her part that brought us to this point or what.
Originally Posted By: PMA_Baby!
END all PHYSICAL CONTACT!!! You are just prolonging the inevitable by ENABLING her. She CANT miss what she STILL has!!! That is what your mising. Keep on repeating this to yourself. I CANT CONVINCE HER TO COME BACK. I HAVE TO DETACH!!! I CANT CONVINCE HER TO COME BACK!!!
It's tough to end all physical contact because of our kids, but I think I understand what you mean. The hugs and touchs are not because of our kids. I think when she asked for a hug a couple of weeks ago (to crack her back), that was the first time since she moved out that she asked for a hug. That brought me back hugging/touching again.
Thanks for dropping by with your 2x4 again. I'm surprised it hasn't snapped in half from hitting my hard head so many times!
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
I know you had questions about this (dropping the rope) your wife called it rude, the simplest way I can explain it is that you treat her exactly like a friend. Compare how you talk and treat girls who are your friends and compare that to how you talk and treat your wife. Treat your wife the same way friends are not rude, they listen and are empathetic you can be those things..but they do not talk about how much they love each and mis each other and all that .you know what I mean. You just need to draw a line.
Theroadback,
Thanks for sharing such a difficult/painful part of you life. It sounds like things are turning a bit for you. That is great news!
It makes more sense to me after reading your post. I am trying the friendly route, but now see that I cross the line of friendship when I talk about my feelings for her. I've got to get myself back across that line.
Thanks again for caring enough to share your story.
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
My wife came by today to pick up the boys. We were chatting mostly tactical stuff. Stupid me notices that she was wearing all her normal jewelry except for the ring that she wore as her wedding ring.
Stupid me says "You're not wearing a ring any more?"
She just says "Nope"
I tried to hide how it rattled me, but I know she knew it did.
I'm such an idiot.
I would hit myself with a 2x4 if I had one laying around.....
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
Let me tell you why. B/c she had already let you know she was lonely/bored by her phone conversation earlier. When she sent you that picture (especially, at that time of the evening)....don't you know that 
I can almost here you thinking to yourself, "Oh goodie, I can't make out what the picture is suppose to be--so now I have a reason to call her!" Don't be a fool, man....she "knew" what she was doing! If only you would have found out and then said good-bye, it would have still been salvagable, but when you added that last sentence....that blew the effects of the entire day. You come across and "needy & desparate" and she immediately grew bored. The fact that she began yawning....how rude is that! I hope you immediately told her good-bye b/c if that's not a sign you've been on the line too long, I don't know what is.