Well, the last day or so has cemented in my mind that we are secure. W is giving me lots of affection; she gave me lots of kisses after her C session yesterday, said she talked a lot about me and thanked me for being the most wonderful man on earth (WOW!). She said – explicitly – that she will never leave me. She tells me how much she loves me, and how much my love means to her, especially after this whole experience and what she sees as my unconditional love – even when I thought she was leaving. She says she can see it in me – body language, voice, actions, etc.
I am very happy!! Now for the rest of the work I have to do.
I’ve been mulling over what I want to post here. I’m a very private person, and although I’ve hesitated in the past about some of the things I’ve posted, but decided I needed to, I shudder at what I’m about to write (and post on the internet… oh boy…). This is part of me opening up and being okay with it though. I’m doing this because it helps me, this is what I’m working on, and if I don’t use this BB for the relevant issues now I may as well just not post.
I apologize if anyone thinks this is too private. I will say that if anyone reading this suspects that you know me in the flesh, I respectfully ask that you skip this post.
I thank everyone for your responses! Shiney, yeah, I suffer a lot of anxiety. I know about that paralyzing indecision – I’m glad to hear your good recommendations of the book!
I suspect your wife is SCARED about ML. Too many huge expectations and "what if" there aren't fireworks and all. So, just let her come around at her pace. How were things before the separation?
Here's a quote I got from somewhere that might help you w/your bedroom sitch: "If intimacy were easier to achieve, it wouldn't be worth nearly as much."
personal question bill, and don't answer if it is too personal, but how long has it been?
Okay, let’s get to work. Let’s talk about intimacy.
First, my background and my wife’s background.
I was brought up in a very conservative family – with two sisters. I was taught to respect women; that to have sexual thoughts about them was actually disrespectful and would likely earn me scorn (I’ve learned that this isn’t true – women WANT to be desired! Duh). I was the guy in HS and college that thought I was a good man to refrain from sex. Young men being what they are, I did have my sexual encounters, but it was a source of tension for me, and I later actually worried about the issue of being less experienced than your average guy. Interestingly, I’ve realized just recently that I have a history of being with women who have been through sexual trauma, perhaps because I’ve been safe and respectful. In short, I’ve basically been repressed in this area. What a cliché, right? Anyway, I have my share of hang-ups and anxiety about intimacy. W has asked me a number of times about fantasies, and my answer has always been “I don’t really know.”
My W has a history of having her boundaries overrun. She has developed that habit of using intimacy to gain control of relationships, and has gauged the security of her relationships through the sexual component. She has never had an orgasm during sex in her life.
I initiate sex by kind of sneaking up on it. I like taking it slowly, kissing until you can’t take it any more, slowly letting the desire build – this could take all night in different stages. I find this not only enjoyable, but integral to the experience. I LOVE this.
My W, as soon as any indication of intimacy is present, will blurt out “Want to have sex?”, run into the bedroom and strip her clothes off.
This confuses me.
According to C, my W, having boundary issues, get confused because I respect her boundaries.
This is the way it was from the beginning – W was pushing intimacy to hurry along the relationship, I wanted to take it more slowly – I actually TURNED HER DOWN the first time she asked for sex because it didn’t feel right to me yet (although gave in on the next day, ha ha. I am a guy, after all).
Yeah, our sex life has always been a little off. To complicate matters, sex is always followed by manually giving W an orgasm. This frustrates her because it feels mechanical to her, and there’s a component of resentment floating around. I’ve always been more than willing to do this, but I think she feels embarrassed about it, and she feels like it’s an imposition to me (which I don’t feel myself, but this has been an issue with prior partners).
With us both feeling a little “off” about intimacy, I’ve had the occasional failure to… mmm… respond. This hasn’t been frequent, but maybe frequent enough to be noticed. And with my anxious personality, this happens once and it’s always a fear, which further complicates the issue. This occasional event hurt my W’s feelings, and to make it worse I did reveal that I’d never had this issue with other women.
After the boys were born things got more complicated, primarily because W’s breasts were so sensitive. I like her breasts, so having her jump when I touched them, or trying to refrain fro doing so, was a bit of a bummer for me.
Our intimacy waned. I went to the doctor and nothing was wrong with me, and I was clear what a humiliating experience I thought it was, which W took to heart – i.e., I was unwilling or unable to work on our intimacy.
So, we got into a situation where W wanted sex all the time, I felt like I was required to be walking around with an erection all the time without any stimulation, and fell into a pattern (unconsciously, I guess) where I was avoiding intimacy. By W’s judgment, I would initiate every six weeks. Seemed to be a pattern. We both withdrew from each other in a number of ways.
We started working on this with C’s help in late spring / early summer, and I think that the prospect of having to work on it convinced W that we were just incompatible. Kitti, I guess the last time was in June.
Well, W has issues with rejection and abandonment. This whole situation was a critical piece of her decision to ask for D.
The funny thing is that after she cut off the prospect of sex, I became extremely hot for her. This made her angry at first, but then really made an impact on her.
So, where we are today – W is aware of and working on her boundary issues. This is very healthy for her. We’re going to ease into sex when we’re ready, and do this the right way, develop real intimacy. She’s actually learning to touch me kiss me on the neck and body and all, which really does it for me (I think physical touch may be my LL). I’m breaking out of my hang-ups and repression – feeling good about buying her underwear, he he he. Talking about sex. Talking about intimacy. We’re letting each other in.
W is working heavy-duty now in therapy on a number of issues. C says there’s no reason that she shouldn’t be able to have orgasms during sex, and W holds the hope now that I will be “her first.” I’m hoping that’s in our future too.
C says we both have significant issues with intimacy and boundaries (emotional boundaries for me).
I have every book now on passion in marriage and sex that I can find. (Analytical problem-solving, eh?) I’m working with C on this things I’ve already described.
So, this is the next big thing to tackle. I see it as hopefully the last thing to address before I consider our marriage to be rebuilt – this and her moving back into the bedroom.
ok, here I go....May I be the first to inform you that lack of ummmm, the big "O" during the actual act is actually very common - more often the rule rather than the exception????? She is NOT unusual!!! It is just a logistics thing....OK? Don't grade your sex life on this one issue, please. Trust me on this one.
Yeah, I know - at one point I did some research on this, read up on it, and found some things for us to try. This was difficult because on one hand I wanted to be supportive - this is a big upsetting thing for her, she really seems to feel something is wrong with her - and on the other hand I didn't want to try to jump in and "fix the problem" - anyway, nothing much came of that, she was just too sensitive about it to address it too much.
Cupcake's right, Bill, I believe that less than 30% of women experience orgasm during intercourse. It IS logistics, () Okay skip this post if you're sensitive about the sex issue
With most positions, there is jus NO WAY the clitoris receives enough stimulation for orgasm. Indeed it may be that nature designed is in this fashion...the female orgasm to follow...as when a woman has an orgasm AFTER her partner, the contractions cause her cervix to dip into the sperm pool, increasing the odds of conception!!!
I think we get way to caught up in what sex is "supposed" to be like...it's ALL good! Even the odd quickie!
Has your W ever taken matters into her "own hands"? That's the only way I've ever had orgasms during intercourse... very doable!
About your own performance anxiety...that's a libido killer for SURE. CJ has such issues and I'm SURE that has a lot to do with the infrequency of our sex life.
Interestingly, CJ too had trouble responding when I asked about his fantasies...he said he didn't have any! ...or that he just concentrated on the sensations and feelings.
We're all wired differently, Bill. I'm a vivid fantasizer, I'm very visual, you have to learn each other's LL in the bedroom! (Note to self...take your own damned advice!!! )
Okay, so I'm a little gun-shy here. Not my favorite subject but I kind of think my H is having a simaliar case of what happened w/your W. I've never been a pursuer in this area and I do believe this is a MAJOR area for my sitch. So, I'll try and take some of your insights and use them in my dilemma. Thanks for that.
Intimacy is so much more than just sex. Some of what you mentioned, kissing body parts for hours and now your wife is doing this. If she can adapt to this phase and be "touched" w/love and all that you have for her, I believe she will achieve her "first" w/you. Some of it is a state of mind and how far you're willing to take yourself into this state of pleasure. I think it can be achieved! (You go MR. STUD MUFFIN!!)
"W is giving me lots of affection; she gave me lots of kisses after her C session yesterday, said she talked a lot about me and thanked me for being the most wonderful man on earth (WOW!). She said – explicitly – that she will never leave me. She tells me how much she loves me, and how much my love means to her, especially after this whole experience and what she sees as my unconditional love – even when I thought she was leaving." This is my "dream" Bill. That's what I continue to long for in my sitch. I'm sooooo happy that you've reached this point. Hooray for you and your W!! Tootles........
Thanks for the responses - I did feel a little weird posting all this out there, but it's a real comfort to be able to talk with y'all about it.
In the May/June timeframe, with C's help we started working on things, telling each other more about what we liked and didn't like - I do think there is potential for vast changes in W's experience - and yeah, potentially a lot of fun experimenting. We had tried different positions, different touching, etc. and W told me what she liked. But whatever happens, and whatever is possible, I think things will be a LOT better now that we're both putting effort into becoming more comfortable with intimacy issues. Anyway, I'm absorbing all that y'all are saying even if I don't know exactly how to respond yet - thank you for the feedback.
As for me - I suspect that my own issues may just disappear as things change for us.
Last night was very intense. We went out with friends (old and new) for dinner and wine-tasting (with me abstaining cause of meds) and had the BEST time. It felt like college again to me, and W had an absolute BLAST. We laughed so much our faces hurt. W said that we need more of this - part of her has been squashed with us not going out with good friends as much. I can't say how good and important this was for us.
W kept looking at me, kept telling me how much she loved me, and we even did some public kissing - yow!! This is the best out-with-friends night we had in ages, maybe ever.
W even told my buddy how much I've done to save the M and how much she loves me. She was gushing. SHe was so happy and seemed so in love.
We got home, more making out, she asked me to come into her room, more making out and after some hemming and hawing from her and "are you going to regret this?" from me - we started to have sex. Passionate - she said later she'd never seen me like that before. Yeah, things are changing for us.
But then she pushed me away and stared to cry - panic attack. She told me how scared she was, how she didn't want me to hurt her. I held her for a long time, told her that I love her and will never hurt her, will never leave her - she is imprinted on me and will be a part of me even after I die. She says that she has never loved someone so much and it's hard dealing with the emotions - it would have been so much easier to just leave. She said she is much more fragile than she appears. I stayed with her for a long time, held her, comforted her until she said it was time for me to go so she could get some sleep.
She also said that she wants my very bad physically but just isn't ready for sex yet, and we need to take a step back. I really should have known not to cross this boundary - but heck, maybe it would have done more damage to turn her down after our history.
Bill, so happy for you that things are progressing! It's an inspiration. Also, once again I am so impressed with your honesty and being willing to be vulnerable. Um, personally, I think it can be helpful to stimulate her to O before intercourse (if poss), then much more likely to have one during. Take it slow, it's going so well!
...or that he just concentrated on the sensations and feelings. 
We had tried different positions, different touching, etc. and W told me what she liked. But whatever happens, and whatever is possible, I think things will be a LOT better now that we're both putting effort into becoming more comfortable with intimacy issues. Anyway, I'm absorbing all that y'all are saying even if I don't know exactly how to respond yet - thank you for the feedback.