You know at this point I know another boundary needs to be set, behaviors have to be changed, I just have not come up with a way to do it. Over time, I have about 95% of the time stopped the rages and if they happen, I react very calmly. I have stopped the babying, mothering, although I still catch the thoughts running through my head sometimes (hard not to when someone whines about how bad they feel). I don't ask where he is going or what he is doing, and now I get told. And if he tries to tell me I'm being pushy, controlling, or that he has no choice but to do something with me (like dinner), I simply turn it around and tell him you won't put that on me because you do not have to do these things (a perfect example was he spends time with me to spend time with my son. I told him having sex with me is NOT spending time with our son.) There is no OW anymore. These issues right now, which really are not major issues in the grand scheme, but are things that have always been deal breakers for me, I'm just not sure about.
I think this is the point where most LBS's decided to walk away. Because when you know your deal breakers and the MLCer continues in the behavior, sick, confused, or whatever, a choice has to be made. My H has developed a few of these during this experience. And I know the man he was would hate that he has developed these issues, but right now he is not seeing them. Or he is seeing them differently. I don't know if these things are permanent changes for him, but they won't be for me. Which is sort of wierd because I, just like all of us, have endured sooooo much that you would think these small things would not be a big deal. But it is his choice to do this stuff, just like it is my choice to live with it or not. I won't. I can't. I lived with the two things I'm talking about my entire childhood and knew when I moved out of home I would not live with it again. But I didn't really understand why. Then when his mother lived here, I went through it again, much more intense than my childhood. It took a very good relationship and turned it into a nonexistent relationship, but I now remember why I won't live with those things. Ever. With H or anyone else.
So we will just see what happens. Yes I've changed a ton of stuff, but my basic core convictions have not changed and he has to know that as well.
FG, you are not responsible for your H's anger. He takes it out on you because there is probably a pattern of you allowing it and doing what you needed to to keep the peace. I know I did that for a long time. Although it is possible that in the past, something you said or did sort of triggered it (I get uptight and my tone suggests I'm ready for battle that I may not even be thinking about, which makes it easy for him to get snippy, then me, and it ensues). I know I did.
The steps I took with this--
1. stop taking the bait 2. stop accepting the blame for whatever he was upset about 3. stepping back from making the decisions for things he said he wanted done so that I had no role for it and could not be blamed for anything, including something not getting done 4. validating his uncertainty and listening to concerns but not offering advice or suggestions 5. refusing to apologize for things that I did not feel require an apology 6. slowly but surely going from wanting him to do something as a family, with our son, expecting him to do it because he is the father, to saying this is what son and I are doing, we want you there, you are welcome to come if you feel like it but it is up to you and we are ok either way and making sure he knows we had a good time if he doesn't participate 7. stop asking permission to do things that I want to do, but I still am open with him about what I'm doing, in or out of the house, if he is around to receive the information 8. Refusing to accept his anger at me if I do something he doesn't like. A perfect example is spending money. I have never spent money on myself first. I would rather H and son and house have everything they need. But I told him the last time he got upset with me over it, just because I choose to give what I have to you and him first does not make me wrong and I will not change that in me and become selfish simply because you don't like it that I'm not. So deal with it. I get what I need and want. 9. I am much more careful about my tone now and H has actually started pointing out things that in the past would have simply been triggers for fights if it does come through. Which is another interesting twist.
I have said little conversations, sometimes simply a sentence or two, but I am seeing things changing in him and he is seeing things changing in me. A year ago, he would never have been able to say "I know you are not angry with me but you sound angry with me". He wouldn't have said it, he would have just assumed I was angry wtih him and we would have fought. But that simple statement, said the way it was said, was enough to alter the whole interaction.
So yes soul searching. Changing the dynamics by changing yourself. I have said butterfly effect or whatever you want to call it and it is real. But it is a process and you will fall off the wagon once in a while, especially if you try to implement everything at once. But these things have happened over time, one step at a time, as they have been revealed to me. Almost in the order I wrote about them. You have seemed to mastered number one, and now if you haven't you have to change the internal reaction as well so that it is just a part of you and not something you have to think about anymore. Then the next one will come.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Where to start? Ok you may have seen, I used to post here under a different name. Boy was I a different person then. Right after the bomb, so you can imagine. My H read those threads, and used everything against me. So although I want to share, I have to be very careful now because he is still nuts. LOL
Yes a blond so nutty myself. This particular time, as I do believe my H had an unresoved crisis that started 12 years ago, and "ended" about 10 years ago (he was done one day and here the next and that was it). I would say this started again sometime in 06. Although I don't believe the full replay started until early to mid 07. I got the first bomb in June 07, then hit with my own health bomb and some other stuff that sort of derailed his falling apart (or really drove it underground for about a year). So then bomb two in July 08. It took me a long time to even decide that I believed this was MLC, but I'm sure.
Yes he still lives at home, in separate bedrooms since Sept 08. Drove me crazy for a while, but not so much now.
OW? Do you want the truth? There have been 4 that I know of. Two in the first crisis, two with this one. He denies PA, I have yet to get an STD of any sort (and one of them had a H with HIV), so I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that because I have no proof otherwise. If he has lied, he has to live with the consequences of that. He tried to deny EA, but of that I do have proof and will not pretend it was anything different than what it was. How did I know they were there? Because of the way he treated me. How do I know they are gone? Because of the way he treats me. Call it gut, call it what you will, I just know. And to be honest, if there is one, it really doesn't matter much. Why? Because that is not the root of this. It does not make it easier for him, it creates more pressure, which is why he is nasty with me when they are around, and H just can't handle it for very long. No I'm not being blind, my eyes are more open than they have been in a very long time.
My H and I have been together for 20 years this year. Met at 17. Our S is going to be 15 in a few weeks. He is a blessing.
So the evidence list--
1. ILYBNILWY 2. I don't have a clue who I am or who we are 3. "Friend" who isn't more than friend, but someone close 4. I want to move out, I don't want to move out 5. I am good at nothing 6. you are too controlling 7. change in physical appearance/shaving private parts 8. obsession with making sure I want him during sex 9. feels unimportant at home 10. anger, anger, and more anger 11. needing space 12. buying toys, gadgets 13. acting like 5 year old with mother 14. wanting to go back in time when no responsibilities
Oh man this list could go on forever. Let's just say I have heard it all. And then some.
Methodical, never thought of myself that way. I floundered for a long long time and I still feel like I am sometimes. But like I said, I think this sort of threw me into my own crisis of sorts. I have really travelled a road and I know that the end is near. And things have happened for me in the order that I posted so that may seem why it was methodical. If you want to get to know me a little more, I posted on Fallgirl's thread, in response to a question from her what my own journey this last year was like.
Yes I told H it is time to "rethink" this living situation. It has been ignored. Doesn't mean he isn't thinking about it but whether he ever tells me what he is thinking or not is another story.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
1. ILYBNILWY 2. I don't have a clue who I am or who we are 3. "Friend" who isn't more than friend, but someone close 4. I want to move out, I don't want to move out 5. I am good at nothing 6. you are too controlling 7. change in physical appearance/shaving private parts 8. obsession with making sure I want him during sex 9. feels unimportant at home 10. anger, anger, and more anger 11. needing space 12. buying toys, gadgets 13. acting like 5 year old with mother 14. wanting to go back in time when no responsibilities
Oh man this list could go on forever. Let's just say I have heard it all. And then some.
Cat....
Anyone that needs a definition of "script" ?
Read this......(interchange for Females )
8 ? Don't touch me...
12 ? Replace with clothes,make-up, hair dye, cheap perfume...
15. Ditch friends that are married for new younger ones...Married people just don't "get" me .....
Yea the ditching of friends. Funny how the married ones aren't so up to running around acting like single people. I guess that just sort of sucks for them.
Yes I know script. I wish I didn't but it is what it is, and anyone who wants to add is more than welcome, cuz I think we all need to be reminded sometimes. Especially that we aren't the only ones hearing it.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
I just read your wonderful thoughtful post. I guess I was writing to Fg while you were writing and I missed it.
Yes, the anger is winding down. Has been really winding down in just this last month or so, although it has been a gradual slowing in frequency. I'm glad you seem to be seeing that as well. Like I said, no idea what it means but...
Blank stares, satellite signals, the force my friend... Yes it is strong. The moon certainly keeps trying to pull him back, sometimes I just want to tell him to stop looking at it.
I don't know why the sudden rehash here except answering questions as they are posed to me. If nothing else, my journey has been one that I wouldn't trade. I want others to know that. To not just look for success stories in terms of reconciled M, but in success stories of personal empowerment.
Hey, wanted to ask, disney in Fl or CA? They dropped the MGM as well and now call it Hollywood Studios.
You know, after the first time, I didn't think I would do this again. I didn't think I had the strength when this started. But it is there. And you are right, maybe God put me here because H needed someone who had the strength to walk this with him. Instead of just walking away.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
You sure you have enough posting space for some of the crazy BS we all have heard ?
One of my personal favs......
You were never here when the kids were younger, I did it all myself !!!!! I'm going to the gym...not sure when I'll be back...The kids are in their rooms ! (Slamming door as she leaves )
Still not quite so sure how I remember the details of their infancy or who took all of the pics of her with the babies if I was never there.....????
Hey wanted to share. I ran into my semi insane elderly neighbors yesterday. Haven't seen them in a while but they were out walking with the walker and the little dog.
We used to be very close but life sort of gets in the way sometimes, and frail health, so we spent a few minutes catching up.
This couple just celebrated their 58th wedding anniversary. Couldn't have heard that at a better time, because when they said it, I was able to remember that they had been to divorce court, ready for the finalization of it many many years ago and standing infront of the judge, the one pushing for it (the H) changed his mind. It can happen.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
