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Good point. I'll hold off on sharing the book. I've stopped trying to "fix" anything and have gotten a lot better at focusing on myself.

I have had such a hard time understanding the Ups & Downs that W goes through. I noticed recently though that I go through these too. For the last couple of days I have had that "young, strong, and I can handle this," vibe going. Then all of the sudden I just get sad.

I saw that a couple of weeks ago you were having the ability to detach a little more and check out girls at the gym. Are you keeping that up? I've had moments like that, but I haven't been able to maintain them. (I don't show her when I'm sad)

Funny how this supposedly came on from lack of communication, lack of appreciating the small things, etc. and the prescription for fixing it is no communication, no over the top appreciation, no acting lovie-dovie etc. Ironic.

Her anger comes and goes. Last night when I was typing on this she came and sat with me outside and said, "I'm so sorry we're going through this." I could only reply "me too." I waited and followed with "I've learned a lot that I don't think I would have otherwise though." She seemed to appreciate that and said that she did too. This is the first time that she has come to me and discussed anything not completely superficial in a while. I think it's because she was nervious about going to IC today. She HATES talking about her feelings. The only way she can do it is to put on the "strong, angry-girl face."

I'm nervous to see how she acts today after her IC appt. I still think she's there looking for validation in leaving so she won't feel guilty anymore.

If you read my thread, you will see the exact same thing. This is completely normal. When you begin to understand that the bad times are going to prop up somethime for no reason, and bite you, they become much more manageable. And, with time, they become MUCH less intense. Eventually, they hardly seem noticeable. But, at first, they are tough. Don't fight them. Just let them out (away from your W), then pick yourself back up.



Detachment takes a while ( and I'm still working on it). Good days and some infrequent bad ones. That's ok though. As far as noticing other women....YES!. I would not act on it right now (I would not until D is final I think). But, what I have noticed is that I realize that my W is not the only beautiful woman in the world. I just got back from my kids' meet and greet at their schools, and if half the women (many single) I saw there are on the PTA, I just found my volunteer opportunity for next year.

Take a look at this:

Developing Detachment



I don't think it is 100% no communication (some advocate going dark in some sitch's), and I don't think it comes from not showing affection. The fine point to appreciate is that you show affection in a different way. Certainly, initially, you do pull WAY back. I think this is more to give them space and make them wonder what is going on with you. But, I think the biggest thing is that any and all activity your W could perceive as pursuit has to stop.

One of the things people have a hard time dealing with and understanding is the conept of loving detachment. It does NOT mean withdrawing in a cold shoulder kind of way. It really is pulling back in a manner that you are still approachable, but leave the approach to your W. And it DOES work.

Also, the best book I have read on communication so far is The Five Love Languages. It was eye opening and only took a day to read.



Couple of things. First, she will be on the up and down for a while. Expect her to pull back after a particularly good day. That is normal.

Second, be careful about relationship talks. If she brings it up, tmake it about HER feelings/issues, not yours.



One thing you HAVE to change is worrying over things you can't control. You have NO control over how she will feel after the IC session or anytime else. You have NO control over her ultimate decision. This is a hard one, but as soon as you accept that, a ton of pressure is off you, and you can begin to work on you much more effectively.

Sorry for the long post, but a lot of ground to cover.

What a LONG weekend.

I went out with friends Friday night (boating). W was home with S7. They were at the neighbor's house hanging out around the firepit with a group of neighbors and their kids when I got home around 10:00. Wife brought S home, but was very cold to me. (She is always cold after IC appt). Then she went back to the neighbor's house.

Saturday was more uneasiness between us. I kept busy most of the day and ended up going to see a movie (GI Joe)with one of the neighbors that night. He and his wife were at the firepit the previous night.

When I got home Saturday W was up and in "her" room. I stuck my hear in to say good night. She began chatting about the night before hanging with the neighbors and other chit chat. Still cold. I backslid "BIG." I said "how do you sit here comfortable with the idea that it is some other woman with me hanging out with our neighbors next summer?" She went into the schpiel about she's not going to be alone forever (btw...I am the only man she has ever been with), she knows her path to happiness etc. She doesn't know why I am fighting this.

The next day we got into it again. I have given her space for months and we have just gotten further apart. She finally lit into me about how unhappy she has been and how she is so resentful toward me. How she has been so hurt and will never allow herself to be in that position again. She said she can see that finding happiness in our marriage would be great, but just kept saying that she is not willing to try. She has already put enough into the M. Once again , told her that I had no idea that she was hurting back then. I apologized. I cried. She cried. I told her I wanted to be the man that she wanted me to be. She said she has seen the changes that I have made, but it hasn't changed how she felt. I told her that a few months of changes (biggest changes in me in last 2 1/2 - 3 mos) are not enough to overcome 10 years or more of hurt. I asked her to please give us a chance and spare our son from having to go through this. We have never addressed these issues together and I agreed that they were all valid issues.

It really seems like she has wanted to see remorse and "payment" for the hurt that I have caused her and going out and GAL has made her MORE angry at me. I think that she wants to see that I am hurting.

I got up in the middle of the night last night to get a snack. She followed me downstairs and started into it again. "I just can't, I know my true path, It's too late..." She made it sound so noble that she is following her "true path." I sat on the floor, spoke softly and just kept saying that I don't want her to be unhappy and I don't want our son to go through this. I empathized with her. She agreed that it was her fault too (lack of communication). But she kept asking me to basically condone her leaving...tell her it's OK. I wouldn't and she started yelling at me. "F-You!" she kept yelling. I kept quit. then said "I'm so sorry that I've hurt you."

At one point she said she was filing this week. I cried. I said I don't want S7 to have to go through this since we have never tried to work on this together. All we have done is "take space" and drift further apart. She kept going on about her "path" and eventually threw herself on "her" bed and cried, fine I'll stay here unhappy forever. I'll die unhappy. I tried to tell her that we don't have to be unhappy. None of us do. Please work with me to save our family and find happiness for all of us. She just yelled "I'm not leaving...I'll stay here unhappy forever!"

She asked me to leave the room.

I have no idea if this is good that we have finally addressed some of these things or if whe is just getting chased further away. She could file today for all I know.

The sad part is that I was just getting 1/2 way good at GAL. Now it looks like that may have added fuel to the fire. She still has so much resentment about being unhappy. I didn't even have a clue that she felt this way prior to the bomb. She used to be an amazing wife.

I can't seem to find the edit button, but I had to add one thing...for my own records at least. My response each time she said she wanted to leave/was going to leave / file had been that I have never stopped her, I am so sorry she is hurting, sorry I caused pain, I didn't know she was unhappy and asked that she please try to work on this with me.

OK. Some good, some bad.



Yes, that was a back slide. At least you recognize it. Don't let it happen again. You let yourself do this - she didn't bait you into it.


Oh, and what she said, all script. I have heard exactly the same things from my W.



Have you, or is this your perception of it. Not taking steps towards D is not moving further apart. She needs this time to work through her issues. You need this time to work on you.



This is good. She needs to get this out.

But, this is bad:



Don't defend yourself or be defensive. Just validate her feelings. You telling her you did not know she was unhappy is defense. Accept the blame, even if you know you don't deserve it. For now. Instead of being defensive, just say "I understand."



First, this too is from the script. I have heard nearly the identical phrase. Second, time - it will take time. Third, why hasn't she left if the changes are not enough to overcome her pain. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't, but she's still there.



I understand, but you do not want her coming back out of a sense of guilt. You want her to want to come back. Otherwise, you WILL have this problem again. It's only a matter of time.



Some good and some bad here. The not OK'ing her decision to leave is definitely good. But, the apology that you hurt her is not. She knows that already. Let her get her anger out, but when it gets to personal attacks, draw the line there. Tell her you are sorry she feels the way she does, but that you will not stand by and let her insult/personally attack you, then walk out of the room. If she hadn't gone with the F-bomb, you should have told her you understand what she wants to do, you do not agree with it, that you will not resist her choice, but will not assist her in that.



Don't know if she'll file, but I doubt it.

Right now, she needs space, and a lot of it. I do not think the talk you had re the issues and getting them out there was a good idea. Sounds like she's still pretty hurt and angry. Just back away and let things calm down. You aren't going to be able to reason with her or convince her you are correct.

I know that's a lot, and I don't want you to think I am jumping on you. I'm not. But, you HAVE to stop the R talks. HAVE TO. If she wants to bring it up, listen, and I mean just listen , and validate. Time to fall on the sword, not go on defense. If you defend, the same argument will be replayed. She will come to you when she is ready to talk about the R. But SHE must be the one to initiate it, not you.

Get back to GAL'ing and give her some space.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not worried about feeling like you're jumping on me. I need someone to hit me upside the head and knock sense into me sometimes. The perspective from someone who has been there is very much appreciated.

It was a big backslide, but like a lot of our wives, my wife is a big avoider. This is why she hates going to the counselor. She would go forever w/o dealing with things. I have fought with patience obviously lost this battle, and will need to do better in the future.

I let her rationalizing get the best of me. Watching her act so loving to our S was killing me. All I could think about was that she's going to have "the conversation" with him and unseat his entire life. I started getting angry with her for being so selfish and not even giving me a shot to save him from having to go through this.

Part of my problem is that my parents split when I was his age. I have never forgotten the moment my Dad told me that Mommy isn't coming home....his crying that night. It's been 26 years.

I talked to two friends in the past 2 days that told me of conversations with each their daughters who still cry that they want to be a family again. One split for 3 yrs, one for 6. My parents still say that they wish they would have made different decisions. It's so hard to hear that she feels getting a D will just fix everything and deliver her to her "happiness," when I KNOW that it doesn't just go away.

GIMA, you are 100% right. I need to drop it. Back off. Stop living in fear, but my instinct to protect my son from something that see as unnecessary is so strong. I WILL NEED TO BE STRONGER. You are right..that strategy is my only hope.

9 1/2 months is a long time. We've had a lot of ups in those months though.

I understand. Since the bomb, my W has not told me she loves me (I haven't either). When she tells one of our kids she loves them, just hearing the words gets my attention.



If this occurs, and I hope it doesn't, you BOTH should be there. This is a non-negotiable for me. And even then, let HER do ALL the talking. If I have to do this, I plan to tell my W ahead of time that she will tell them, and that I will be there and that she is not to tell them anything indicating this is a joint decision or that I agree with it. At the end, I will ask the kids if they have any questions for me, and that's going to be it.

This goes along with the I will not resist, but I won't assist thinking.



I understand man. I came from a D'd family too. My parents D'd when I was an infant, so I do not have any memories of that. But, my mom and step father (who really raised me) had a very caustic R for as long as I can remember. Mom's on 4th H.



YOU know that (and you are correct). But, she is in the fog and cannot see that. And the LAST person she is going to listen to or trust is...guess who? So, if you give her lots of space, and live your changes and new attitude, maybe, just maybe, she will start to trust you enough or pause before proceeding. If you keep pushing, you are not going to like the result.



That is a while,but it took her a LOT longer to get where she is.

How long have you been living your changes?

I want to chime in here about w telling the kids she loves them. It strikes me, too when I hear her say ILY to my boys. My little guy (4) runs around the house telling us he loves us, do we love him? He'll go to W and say ILY mommy, do you love me? she will answer of course, then he'll come to me, ILY daddy, do you love me? I always wait for the next question, Mommy, do you love daddy? So far it hasn't come. But still, hearing her voice say ILY, the one that used to say it to me, burns a bit.

Orich - I totally get you. We had a rainstorm last night. S slept with me. He has done that a couple of times recently. W comes in and kisses him good night, all lovingly and sweet...then walks out of the room w/o saying a word to me.

Funny, last Wed and Thurs she stuck her head in and sweetly said Good night to me (son not in my room those nights) but after IC appt she went cold.

Part of hearing/seeing her so loving on S that gets to me is me fighting the "if you love him so much why aren't you fighting to keep his family together" thought. I get the how and why she sees it this way, but it still doesn't mean that I like it.

GIMA - I have been living my changes only a couple of months. I know it takes time and I mentioned that during our "conversations" this weekend.

You're dead on with all of your advice. I need to do a better job of following it.

Funny thing...with all of the Ups & Downs we have gone through periods of being "back together," (some periods more back together than others) where we were saying ILY, ML, sleeping in same bed, watching movies together etc. I have had some version of "The Bomb" dropped on me no less than 5 times.

It's the good times that have kept me going. Every time we slide though she said that she wasn't feeling the good times though. Bamn! Pow! Right in the gut!