Quote: I'd bag the letter altogether and just be as supportive as you can for now. Corri
Yeah, Corri, right now I agree. The more I think about it the more I feel I'm going to keep it the journal I keep on my PC.
But if he asks I'm not going to lie. Just as he did at lunch when he asked me if I was still tingling. Well, actually I did lie. I said not as much as last Wednesday, when in reality I felt nothing at all. I didn't even get close to tingling.
So, is telling the occasional white lie acceptable in this case?
Quote: I would make a list of bulleted items and say to him: "Honey I have a list of things that I want to go over at counseling tomorrow. Would you like to take a look at it in advance, or just wait til then?" That way, he doesn't sense a huge R talk coming on. The threat of that will surely make him shut down and tune out, you know how men are!
Hi HP: Thanks for the suggestion. I may just ask him off-the-cuff tonight if there's anything specific he wants to go over tomorrow night and see what he says. Give him the first chance to speak.
Quote: Michele does talk about how in some people the desire comes AFTER the arousal. So he might have to be physically aroused (i.e., an erection) before he starts feeling desire. My H does not act like this all the time, but I can tell right away on the times when his desire is low and he is needing some help from me to get him jump started. It has taken a toll on my confidence but I am slowly accepting that this is just HIM and I love him however he is.
And yet, I get the impression my H does not want any help from me at all. I'm not aggressive, but any movement on my part to pet or caress him at times we do have sex is met with a 'pulling away' (for lack of a better term). You mention being able to jumpstart your H. Mine acts as if my touch is repulsive. I've gotten to the point where I'm afraid to touch him for fear he will retreat. It's like he's thinking, "I'm going to do this on my own and I don't want your help at all." I've never said anything, but it hurts.
My first H was Hyper-sexed (until the BP meds took over and made him impotent). From first H (1974-2002)back to the time when I had originally met my Current H (1969), I had minimal contact with men, so I'm almost at a total loss as to what to do and how to do it. I appreciate the time and suggestions everyone here has offered.
Quote: And I know you love your H to pieces too, so go easy in that letter, girlfriend! Just kiddin.
Nah. I've bagged the idea. I'll just keep it in my PC-journal. (I've got bad hands, typing is easier than writing for me)
Thanks for all who have contributed to this thread and have offered so many suggestions.
Hi Rose, I should have made myself clear that, yes, my dh did/does the same thing when dealing with desire. Historically, he would not allow me to touch him...would roll away, or position his body in such a way that made it impossible. One thing he has worked very hard on is to keep his mind OPEN to the suggestion of sex, even if he is not feeling terribly horny at the moment. It is hard to explain in writing but I know exactly what your H is doing and I know that mine is trying to eliminate that behavior. Not that he can't ever be not in the mood, but rather that he doesn't shy away from potentially sexual touches. For example he will allow me to rub his shoulders and stomach now, even if he's not sure where it will lead. There was a time when he would have stopped me instantly unless he wanted sex. Now he has embraced the idea that even if HE is not in the mood, that I might be and that both of our sexual needs deserve to be met. Well, I doubt this is making a lick of sense, so I'll sign off now. Just keep your hopes and spirits up and good luck tomorrow.
P.S. I think earlier when he asked if you were still tingling he was just wanting some reassurance that you DO appreciate his efforts. I think that one of the biggest fears of the LD spouse is that whatever they do, it is too little, too late and "never enough". I think he wanted to know that he can satisfy you. I don't blame you for not lying, but maybe explain to him later that it isn't the physical act of sex itself that gets you all tingly, but his enthusiasm.
Quote: would roll away, or position his body in such a way that made it impossible.
Bingo. Same here.
Quote: For example he will allow me to rub his shoulders and stomach now, even if he's not sure where it will lead.
We're still at the point where the only times I can do this is if he's fully clothed somewhere other than bed or when I've made it clear that it's NOT leading to sex. We're not at the point you and your H are, yet.
Quote: Now he has embraced the idea that even if HE is not in the mood, that I might be and that both of our sexual needs deserve to be met.
We aren't quite that far, yet. We are still driven solely by his needs. If he's not in the mood and I am, I'm SOL.
Quote: Well, I doubt this is making a lick of sense
You make perfectly good sense. Your situation shows me where this whole process can lead. Gives me hope. Thank you!
Quote: . . .just wanting some reassurance that you DO appreciate his efforts . . .but maybe explain to him later that it isn't the physical act of sex itself that gets you all tingly, but his enthusiasm.
I've verbalized this repeatedly over the past year or so because it bothers him that I don't come to orgasm. I've told him that I get much enjoyment out of the journey itself, not just the destination. I've tried to explain my need for more stimulation (visual and physical), but to date it has fallen on deaf ears. My Ex was very, very fast and often a premature ejaculator. I had to get myself ‘up’ well in advance. And I never had an orgasm that I didn’t help facilitate.
I've not had to deal with a situation where my partner is LD. In fact, when I first came out to visit H prior to my moving in with him, he was a completely different man. Sex was a couple of times a night. There was nothing he wouldn't try to help give me pleasure. It all came to a screeching slowdown when I moved in. Ask him why and he will answer, "I don't know."
Ah well, tomorrow is another day and tonight he's teaching me to play darts.
Hey what's up with all these LD males, and how in the heck did I end up with one. Like I said in an earlier post, when we were younger it was him wanting it all the time, now he is like one of those potatoe bugs, when I touch him he curls up away from me, like those little bugs are likely to do. I love this man and want to grow old with him for sure, but I can't go on like this it is surely going to get worse no better. Meanwhile I have a man waiting in the background, what is wrong with getting a little on the side if you have been in a marriage 30 years and there is no hope of love making in the near future? The other man is married as well and we have no interest in any future together just to meet each others immediate needs. Why Not Cheat, where are you when I need you? Patsi
Quote: How does one overcome the feeling that it's obligatory, though? It seems to me that what's going through H's head is: "I told the C I would do this one more time before Wednesday and by God, I will." Where's the desire in that?
Hello Rose,
I think you're thinking too hard to the point of even imagining what your H could be thinking during ML. Why not just relax and enjoy it? Why not just apply Michelle's "Just do it" to yourself? Forget about wondering "is tonight the night?" How could you possibly get in the mood when you're thinking "he is just doing this out of obligation". So what if he is; the first couple of times. Thats why you're into counselling and trying this out isn't it? Just do it and keep on doing it until you both find the rhythm. Just do it, don't think.
I think Jiji gave you really sound advice on your letter and I also agree with what Honeypot said about men finding such things too wordy. I know my H absolutely hates receiving such letters from me. I think his mind shuts out after the few sentences and at the end of the day my message doesn't get across after all.
Quote: It sounds to me (having been there myself over other issues) that your husband realized he'd messed up big time but didn't know how to SAY he was sorry. So, he's doing about everything he can think of to SHOW you that he is. Is this typical behavior for him? If it is, you may be better off accepting this apology for what it is. Not everyone knows how to express themselves verbally -- especially when they're in "deep kimchi." You're the one who knows your husband (although I don't mean to say you can read his mind).
If on the other hand this is what he does to AVOID apologizing in any form, he probably needs to be called on it. It all comes back to the intent behind it, and only you can judge. Good luck!
Hello VA,
Thanks for helping me put on my thinking hat. Well, my Sun would have gone on exactly the same way even if we hadn't argued on Sat so no, my H was not going all out to do whatever he could as a form of apologizing. Come to think of it I don't remember a time when H apologized to me for anything, ok only once when he had a PA some time ago. Usually its me who says I'm sorry and then he will say something like "Its ok, we were both under stress" but then again usually its me who starts the arguments to begin with.
My H is still his usual sweet self like the argument never happened. Do you think I should just take his cue? I hate to not say anything further because to me there are lots of unresolved issues but if I do he'll just think I'm complaining again and he will get annoyed. I think, to him, he feels there are no issues and I should just stop being a pain and be happy for whatever we have.
Ok enough babbling. Not sure if I'm making any sense here so I had better go. LH
Quote: Why not just relax and enjoy it? Why not just apply Michelle's "Just do it" to yourself?
Quite possibly I could have if I hadn't been sound asleep just before. I did not turn him down and I participated but there was no 'tingle' like he expects me to have on a moment's notice.
Quote: Just do it and keep on doing it until you both find the rhythm. Just do it, don't think.
Oh I will. I have no intention of turning him down. But is it too much to expect some sort of hint? What am I supposed to do when he comes upstairs and heads to the bathroom for an hour or so at 10pm? If I have some sort of hint, then I can make myself stay awake and get twiggy with anticipation. Otherwise, I fall alseep and it's *very* hard to relax and enjoy it when woken from such a sound sleep.
Quote:
I think Jiji gave you really sound advice on your letter and I also agree with what Honeypot said about men finding such things too wordy. I know my H absolutely hates receiving such letters from me. I think his mind shuts out after the few sentences and at the end of the day my message doesn't get across after all.
I ended up only asking if he had anything he wanted to bring up this afternoon with the C. He said no. I said nothing more. I'll wait and see what C says.
I've gotten to the point where I'm afraid to touch him for fear he will retreat. It's like he's thinking, "I'm going to do this on my own and I don't want your help at all." I've never said anything, but it hurts.
