Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Waiting More Than a Dozen Years

Refresh our memory, please:

(1) Why is she not speaking to you?
(2) How is this a role-reversal from the past 23 years?
(3) What do you hope to accomplish with this planned discussion?

-- B.

It all started with something small (as they often do) and escalated into an argument about how arguing for our positions is carried out.

I revealed to her that there are a number of topics that I don't discuss with her any longer simply because I'm tired of having to justify myself, my view, if all thats going to happen is that she is going to dismiss it and me. I gave her some specific examples and pointed out that she had the stage to herself and even that was not enough (and she had not noticed that she was alone on that stage of opinion).

What bothered her was that I could (and did) cite specific statistics in terms of what was said, when, and how many times she did X. She resented that I "counted" and she didn't know I was counting. She tried the how would you like it if... reversal.

Would not bother me in the slightest, I replied. My being who I am has nothing to do with statistics. I didn't think to point out that in her profession she observes behind a one-way mirror in certain situations (why?). She replied she could just make stuff up, but I pointed out that if she "counted" and told me what the count was, I could evaluate whether she was making stuff up or not. Finally, I asked, are you telling me that you'd act differently if you knew I was counting. She gave me a maybe. So which is real?

She was upset that I chose to stop talking about certain issues and so has stopped speaking to me in retaliation.

But she is angry about it and after a week or so, I can point out how that has felt to her and then will ask her to imagine what that has been like for me for the past 23 years.

I have no expectation that it will accomplish anything.

Another patron: Is that on the menu? I'll have what they are having.

Seriously, I did have a coworker who would put her pager on vibrate and between her legs during business meetings.

Believe it or not, she was the one who introduced me to my current wife.

So, it is probably reasonable to assume that the role your wife wants for you in the relationship is that of the devoted, lenient, doting father-figure, whom she has wrapped around her little finger. What baby-girl wants, baby-girl gets, including coffee served to her in bed as she shops QVC in the morning. You represent safety, security, and a free-hand to do as she likes without significant restrictions.

Does that sound about right?

Next, let's look at her previous two husbands, but focus please, ONLY on the honeymoon-phase or infatuation-phase of those relationships. Don't talk about how the marriages fell apart later, once the dopamine rush wore off. What were these guys like: personality, career, and life-style wise? How did she meet them and how did the relationships get started?

-- B.

I can actually provide very little information on either of them.

I know that the first marriage was a secret for awhile, after they had graduated from high scholl and were in college. I know even less about the beginning of the second marraige.

It's a bit like a blind mantrying to tell another about the theory of color that I worked out by sense of touch.

You did mention earlier that one of those guys had been domineering and controlling with her. Can you elaborate at all?

-- B.

Her second husband was the one she classified as controlling. And I only have a general sense of it in that he basically set the agenda around what she "could and could not do." If you want my take on it, it was (and is still) all about appearances. From fashion to the appearance of one's house and/or car.

I would say that while that was and is important to the both of them, she didn't like being "controlled" in that manner. It included other aspects about where and when to appear and how to appear. What car to drive. What kind of house to live in and where. That continues to this day although she ignores him when he has told her what she ought to do or expressed an opinion she did not share.

As I have mentioned, she wants to be "in charge" and will find a way to do that (even though she might complain about it). This house is a perfect example of it. In the room I am sitting in right now, there is one picture one floor clock, and maybe one floor lamp that I would claim as "mine." The chair I'm sitting in is a replacement for a previous recliner that I gave my son to take to Boston with him (so is it mine or not?). And except for the CD player and DVD player recorder that were given to me as gifts, nothing else in this room is really mine.

That is true in every room of this house except the bedroom I call my office and the formal living room.

That's pretty much the way the whole house has gone. We've sold or given away most of the furniture that I had coming into this marriage and replaced it. Almost all of initial furniture we bought for this house (that I played a large role in selcting) has been replaced. Much of the furniture that has replaced our original stuff has come from her mother's, stuff that she has grown up with. And while it looks very nice (not objectionable) there is very little in this house that I could eventually walk away with and claim as mine. I think that in her second marriage, a similar situation might have existed for her in terms of what her husband would let her have.

Now, I'm sure that I'll hear that I could have said no, or if I objected I should have said something. But this is and was a gradual process.

Let me give a real simple example in terms of the way control occurred for her. When we first met in 1986, our children finally met each other for the first time six weeks after she and I had first met. We were at my house and I was making spaghetti for all of us when I realized that I had eother forgotten or run out of something. The grocery store was close (you could walk to it if you were willing to take the 10 minute walk) and I asked her to go to the store and purchase whatever it was that I needed.

Well, this came as a shock to her and she expressed this on the spot...I want her to go to the store? It wasn't that she objected, it was that her second husband would not "let her" go to the store.

There was something else there as well. Her first husband "went to the store" and never came back. Instead, he went and started living with some teenage girl just a couple of years younger than they were (they were both in their early 20's). Beyond that, and the fact that she continued to sleep with him during her second marriage (retaliation? unresolved love?), I don't know much about the circumstances of his leaving, though if he left because he had "enough" of her, I certainly would understand the reaction.

Interesting TEGH......the relationship between your wife and her father needs comparing to her later relationships. In that initial relationship...she was the number one with dad, but lived with unenforced boundaries. She was the daughter who probably "could do no wrong". As she matured she become accustomed to lack of boundaries and more than likely used this to her advantage.

Little is known about marriage number one other than the husband left her, yet she continued to have on and off sexual relations with him into her second marriage. I would presume that husband one left her once he realized her control issues. He had little invested at this point and choose door number two.

Husband number 2 was controlling..not abusively, but in a manner different than what she was used to (dad). She wasn't getting her way, so in retaliation she continued her relationship with husband #1. I would assume (please correct me) that she ceased sexual relations with husband #2 while sleeping with her ex? Hard to confirm that one, but it sounds like she could have been punishing husband #2 for his controlling behavior.

You....not controlling, self aware, and doubting what you can offer a woman. In you she found the relationship she had with her father. You adore her and she is allowed to control the relationship. Not in a domineering way, but controlling none the less. For the most part she gets her way and when you set boundaries, she retreats in some manner. Currently that is lack of communication. I actually see similarities now in your wife and my sister. My sister was the "can do no wrong" child in our house. Her relationship with her husband is similar to yours with your wife. When he set boundaries about spending money or child discipline..she would withdraw, spend more, or eventually have an affair. I always related her adult behavior to my parents treatment of her. As a child, when she didn't get her way she became sullen and withdrawn until they gave in....in my opinion...spoil me or I won't play nice. The last I knew, her husband has become like you...."I don't care anymore, just let me do my thing".

In the end, You end up in a horrible situation. You set boundaries and she retaliates by withdrawing or you don't and maintain peace in the house (at the cost of your sanity). What I feel is even worse in your situation is your wife's profession. I have known a lot of therapists through the years and most (not all) have an air of superiority. There is nothing wrong with them, it is the rest of us that are screwed up. Hence she is unwilling to see the pattern that is unfolding...maybe even unable to see it. So that really only leaves two options for you...stop complaining and accept it or decide what you are willing to lose to get yourself back! Obviously you accepted it 12 years (I know you didn't accept it, but you did live with the status quo)and now you are done.

I think your answers don't lay here...I think they lay in your old journals. What does TEGH really want? From that, what is TEGH willing to do to get what he wants and deserves?

Hopefully the vibrating cell phone woman was not very attractive. I would hate to think that the question "why didn't I chase her?" is haunting your dreams!

More follow up questions, TEGH;

(1) What kind of guys did you wife date or pair-up with with high-school while she was living under Daddy's rule? Was she a conformist who only dated nice boys who met with Daddy's approval? (you alluded to this when you mentioned her saying "Go as my father" to potential suitors) Or was she rebellious and sneaking out at night in order to hang out with the "bad boys" in school? In general, she a "Daddy's good girl," an "uppity prom-queen," or a "wild, party-girl,"?

(2) What kind of man does your wife find attractive and sexy now? What male movie stars or genres? Characters in books? Men on the street or at work? Do you know?

What we're trying to do here is to figure out what kind of man she, at her most basic level, is sexually attracted to, based upon her history. This doesn't have to be a man with long-term relationship potential -- in fact, I suspect that she has tried marrying what she was sexually attracted to (perhaps twice), only to find that they were quite lousy long-term relationship potential. This is quite common: a lot of women find "bad boys" incredibly attractive and sexy, only to discover that in the long-term, they are domineering jerks who don't make good husbands or fathers.

So instead, these women "settle." They marry a man who will provide them with the safety and security in long-term marriage that they are looking for, but who DON'T turn them on sexually, beyond the initial honeymoon phase of the relationship. I suspect that is exactly what your wife did in marrying you: she "settled" down with a man who gave her the safety, security, and freedom that her father did, but who doesn't really fire her up and arouse her sexually.

This is a lousy position to be in as the man in the relationship, especially when he *didn't* settle and she does turn *him* on. There are, however, ways to work around this and get her attention, sexually.

-- B.

All good observations and all stuff I've thought through myself. I guess that if it occurs the same way for you as it does for me it demonstrates that I'm not imagining this stuff and other people can see the same thing that I do.

As for my vibrating coworker...no, she was running her own game and I wasn't playing.

No, I look back at some of the opportunities I seemed to have and have no way of knowing how or whether they would have turned out.

But there was one couple with whom I shared my feelings about my first wife, how things had gone, where things had gone wrong and what I was willing to do out of love to repair and bring things back. We (my first wife and I) had known this couple since shortly after we had gotten married. They too were newlyweds and our life tracks followed a similar path...a couple of years out of the university, marriage, a couple of years later a house, and then pregnancy and children.

When my wife announced the affair and moved out, they were good friends and reached out to me. In some ways, their willingness to have me share their Thanksgiving (which I did accept) and their Christmass (which I did not) helped maintain my sanity. At the time, though, they were my advocates and although still friends with my soon to be ex-wife, they tried to bolster me by telling me that they thought she had made a really bad choice and that if she came to her senses that she was going to be very lucky to have me there, ready to put things back together.

I didn't want to impose my troubles on my friend's lives because I was aware of some of their struggles. So, I tried not to wear out my welcome. Ultimately, a couple of years later, their own strains caught up with them and they parted.

She waited for what she considered to be an appropriate period of time after their divorce. We had not talked for several years when she called me. She wanted to go out with me and wanted to know if I was interested. I was weeks away from my second marriage and I declined even to go out and have dinner with an old friend. She had other things in mind, but I just did not go there and did not allow myself that luxury.

I should have taken that chance.