Guys, thanks for the honest feedback. Didn't come off too strong, I'm asking for input.
I guess my thinking has been - W has what you might call abandonment issues. Last time we went through this, one of the things that she responded to most was that I never wavered. If she feels for the last months I've neglected her, didn't respond to her emotional needs, it seemed to me this was a 180.
Well, kids at in-laws, and W was out last night, said she's be in late. Was alone in the house. Thought about things I could go out and do, but I was so exhausted I stayed home and read.
Realized that I was waiting for her to get home, just to have a few words so it would hurt less. Yeah, there's a part of me that was hoping she'd "snap out of it".
Well, so I went to bed, was in bed when she got home. Didn't talk much to her this morning, a few words about the kids - didn't ask how her night was.
Well, saw counciler (LMFT) today. Introductary session. Said she wanted W to come to the next session; W said she would.
W mentioned her own counciler had talked about being careful about my feelings with the speed of this thing, though she didn't elaborate.
Feeling mellow tonight - not really seeking W out. Trying to detach. Helped with dinner, read to the kids - was engaged and all that. W is leaving tomorrow for a class reunion - was eager to put on her dress to show me, etc. She's been chatty tonight, I've been more reserved. By the end of the evening she was getting cranky though, but I think that has more to do with getting the boys to bed (tomorrow is the 1st day of school), and preparing for this trip, than having to do with me. Ah, at one point she asked me if something was wrong, I just said I was tired.
Well, she went into the bedroom and locked the door to take a shower.
She did pick up boxes of those quaker oatmeal squares that I eat for breakfast (and seems only Target has - meaning some special effort). She left a message today and started "Hey hon - oh, I can't believe I said that, habit..." Little things... not sure the significance.
Well, she doesn't want to do MC, but is making arrangements (moving things around) to go to this one session with me.
So I've got the weekend with the boys, that's good. Think I should spend a little time now detaching and "do nothing" - read. Of course, being distant or whatever was part of the complaint to begin with - but I think I need a little detachment right now.
I've been thinking of GIMA and Puppy's responses from the other day. I think that much of what I'm doing is informed by what we went through the first time in 2003.
In 2003, my wife had a bit of a breakdown shortly after we returned from Hawaii in late Feb / early March. She was in therapy for awhile, suffering from depression. Our twins were two at the time. It was a hard time for me too, and I also became depressed. In July, she asked for divorce and moved into the spare room. I went through the emotional roller coaster, went the next day to get anti-depressants (W was convinced I would not do this). I did the usual things - filled the house with roses, ordered gifts from Victoria Secret for her. After awhile, I found all the books and this message board, and DBed my butt off. As we got into autumn, we worked things out.
There are a lot of parallels with what's going on now. We were in Hawaii in May. W has been wanting to go back to therapy. Bomb dropped in late July. Last time, she went and had a tubal ligation in the middle of all this; this time she's had abdominal surgery. Last time, she took a trip to see her father for the first time since she was a teenager, this time she's taking trips to reunite with old high-school friends and high school reunion. So in a lot of ways this feels like familiar territory.
The things that impressed my wife were - I opened myself up to more contact with other people, including the message board - Through the period, I didn't get angry. I was steadfast. And I was positive. When she said she wanted to buy a house for herself, I didn't like it, but I said OK we'll get the down payment out of our investments. We worked through problems together, we still behaved as partners. - I was able to cobble together a PMA and positive state of mind. I started doing things like, picking up dinner from the grocery store deli and have a "picnic" in our family room. Did other things like this, I don't recall the details. Put positive energy into the family and relationship. - This was when the massage thing really started. I read the love languages book, starting thinking about these things, and discovered this was a way we could have some measure of intimacy that she would accept, and this was part of our recovery.
My W had a hard childhood, and has what I'll call abandonment issues. So it made a difference to her through this process that she could still rely on me, no matter what. She said at various times afterwards that what we went through was inevitable, based on her history, and she learned that she could trust me. She also said that I'd done everything right - if I'd done it differently, we wouldn't have come through it.
So, I realize now, that this time, two and a half weeks later, I haven't yet leveled out emotionally, and I'm trying to cram all these learnings from last time in all at once. Yeah, the massage stuff (feet anyway), Puppy go ahead and make fun. The "being there" for her that GIMA whacked me for.
I've got to go, but will be on later. Guys, if you have comments I'm all ears.
Man, I wish I could recover my posts from 2003, but can see to get the search engine to find them. Probably too old.
Everyone has to tailor the plan for their situation. It just struck me that what you are doing may not resolve any of the issues that appear to have propped back up a 2nd time wiht your M. I'm no expert, and I am learning new things ever day, but if your technique did not work the 1st time, why do you think it will be anything more than a band-aid this time around? I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ here, really.
What C did you and your W go through before following the 2003 episode? What did you do to resolve your problems then? Were they resolved or just brushed under the carpet for a while?
I guess my concern is that your W has now twice had issues, and it does not seem like there have any major changes for the better in you, your W or the M. You sound like a nice caring H, but one who (like me) is (making this a was) afraid to rock the boat.
If I'm off base, I'm sorry. I can assure you I (and although I can't speak for him, I suspect Puppy) only want to see you improve you and your M.
Hey GIMA - no, I don't think you're a smarta$$, everything you said is fine. I'm not here to be "right" or defensive, I'm seeking input. So thanks.
I do think that I did learn and change quite a bit from the experience in 2003. W has commented several times that I'm much different than I used to be. And I think that we were both happy with the M for many years afterwards.
It's been a source of sorrow for my W that she doesn't retain relationships. I've seen this happen multiple times where she gets involved in a group, makes friends, then something happens, and she shuts down and moves on. Could be a pattern she developed in childhood, whatever - but she's observed this in herself, this "push away" or "sabatoge" behavior. All I know is that when this happens, and people react negatively, it's done. So I've learned this "I won't reject you" behavior.
W has always had this sort of sadness, or need, or something. Maybe baggage from a rough childhood. She tried to hurt herself in her late teens, and she's been on anti-depressants since 2003. I hope this doesn't sounds like gobbleygook, and I'm not fingerpointing either. I know I've been preoccupied the last several months. But every relationship she has seems to be eventually tinged with disappointment, and she exits. That's the pattern I see. And the thing I've learned to do is not reject her in turn.
OK, you're probably going to throw a brick or something at me now. Go ahead.
Dammit you know what, I've got to get some steel here. I'm doing this, I'm saving my marriage.
So GIMA, yeah, I don't have to be a martyr here. She does know I love her, and I haven't rejected her. W asks me about what / how we're going to tell the kids. I didn't have an answer at the time, but I'm going to tell her, that's your thing. I can help and partner in all sorts of things, but not this.
She's in southern CA for a reunion thing now. Talked to her yesterday about the kids, she called tonight to talk to them, so we talked a little bit.
Things aren't horrible, conversations are respectful and positive. She's expressed her sadness about all this so that's something. And she's agreed to go, I presume one time, to a session with me. She offers hugs.
So I think the next milestone, within the next week, is to see out this session goes. This weekend I'm going to focus on the boys. And working on the house. Productive things.
I need to keep up the exercise - haven't walked the dog as I started to do, mainly because I haven't been sleeping well and just tired. Time to bear down on the PMA. Tired of being in a funk all the time. Time to get on with it.
