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I have been reading threads by givingitmyall and sandi's responses and THEY HAVE REALLY HELPED ME. I feel there are sooo many similarities to my situation.

I have a WAW of 48 with MLC issues and pre-menopause. I am 49 and we have 2 daughers age 6 and 9.

My WAW of 17 years and I met in a co-dependents anonymous group 19 years ago. Then went to separate groups after a few months after we decided to date. After 6 months of dating I was the first man she moved in with and she was at age 30. She had had a couple of serious relationships before me for about 6 months each. The last one ended with the man breaking it off and telling her "I don't know who you are."

Interestingly enough this is the core issue our marriage therapist of 5 years ago and Amy discovered that she doesn't have a "sense of self." So of course anyone she is in a relationship with doesn't know who she is either.

She loved sex and so did I.

After 6 months I asked her to marry me and she said she would, but then starting having panic anxiety attacks, but said she wanted to marry me and I wanted to marry her so she went to a panic anxiety therapist. We married and waited 8 years to have children. Now we have 2 daughters 6, and 9, but fell into patterns of using each other in bed and not really connecting intimately - just sex (think I read something from sandi about her experiencing something like this.)

My wife Amy has always pushed down her emotions and learned from her family not to open up which I'm sure contributed to the lack of intimacy and panic, but we used sex to soothe over the real issues - I would go into my little fantasies and she would go somewhere else in her head until we were both satisfied, but that built up poison over the years because it wasn't true intimacy.

We went to the marriage therapist for help 5 years ago and it did start to improve. I guess we went several months, but in the last 3 years slid back into old patterns and now after reading the Divorce Remedy and these discussions I can say it was predictable that Amy would explode with her announcement for wanting a divorce and used the classic I Love You but I'm not In Love with You. I want to feel loved and cherished. I wouldn't leave you for sex, but for love.

This on July 6 after having a wonderful 4th of July weekend with lots of good food, fun with the family and sex of course. Amy led the prayer we have most of the time when we ate together, "God thank you for all of our blessings and help us in work and school and play and help Daddy's business project this weekend go great!" Big smiles - heck it was only a few weeks ago that when we had a mild disagreement (we don't fight hard) Amy came into the room I was in with a sweet "smooch, smooch, smooch, and a cute I luv youuuuuu." Hugs and kisses and we made up.

We go out on date night almost every Monday for dinner a movie (something we started just for us the last time we were in therapy), and either of us can bring up any topic - Amy never brought up how unhappy she was feeling, BUT....

Just 2 weeks before July 4 she went to her 30th high school reunion down by her parent's house and was out all night on Fri, and Sat with her friends. I asked her directly, "do I have anything to worry about?" and she said no, but I know she can be a great liar and after she made her nuclear detonation on July 6th asking for a divorce I again asked her if she was involved with someone - she claimed no, but I see all these signs of mid life crises.

Last week when we were in Colorado together on our family vacation and we did a lot of things together as a family and with her identical twin sister and her husband - like going to the top of Pike's Peak, seeing Ice Age 3 movie together, Amy, me our daughters, and her sister. Amy and I sat together. Exchanged warm smiles, but no touching. I caught her texting on her phone, something she rarely does and she was very nervous when she saw that I saw her doing this...I suspect male attention - even though she claims she's not pursuing.

She has been shopping for tattoos and toe rings per our 9 year old daughter. She loves to talk about how she was one of the most attractive women at the re-union with some of the youngest children and how other guys were paying attention to her! I read where women in MLC want that from other men, not the same old husband who she told me she thought I just took her for granted and was convenient for sex.

She's right of course, and that's a core issue I'm solving for myself regardless of whether I'm with her.

She is very afraid of getting old. Her favorite movie The Bucket List. She says she doesn't want to spend the 2nd half of her life like the first. She wants to explore, see what's out there, but then says she knows she needs to work on her issues before she can be in a good relationship whether it be with me or anyone else.

Then buys a couple sexy dresses and underwear in Colorado - not telling me of course, but I saw them hanging in the closest and thought Wow! Wish she would wear those with me!

We went on vacation together as a family last week for 10 days in Colorado at her identical twin sister's house, but since she agreed to a 3 month separation in the same house and that's where we are at.

We are to see the marriage therapist that recommended to my Divorce Remedy and same one we saw 5 years ago again Thur., but Amy is focused on how to tell the children, not working on our relationship.

After reading the goals section and sharing with your spouse in Divorce Remedy I shared a heartfelt letter with Amy of the things I am going to change for myself regardless, and she read it cried, and laughed a bit.

A few days later in Colorado she presented me with her own letter telling me how proud she was of me for starting to do this work and make these changes, but she really still felt she needed to be on a different path and that some lucky woman, not her, would benefit and she was almost certain "our marriage will not likely survive," and that "this journey will see to that."

I can't help feeling she is confused, wandering, searching. Our therapist told me in my private session before the vacation keep Divorce Busting, that I was right "what a lot of this is is wandering in the wilderness," give her space and give her more space, be mysterious, don't hang around giving her power of me and the therapist said she saw that I was in a MUCH better place than 5 years ago when she last saw us, and that this is very likely mid life crises, 30 year high school reunion, throw a hormone or two in there from pre-menopause and this same thing could still have happened even if I didn't have my issues!

That was an eye opener. BUT I do love her and I want Amy to see that even without sex I can be an unconditional friend, and that I'm a pretty darn good catch. She says verbally and in her letter she really admires my qualities as a great father to our daughters and as a businessman - I own my own small marketing and promotions business.

I'm focused on myself, not pursuing, but it's hard. She will tell me about her day - I listen and not offer fix it solutions. We smile warmly at each other, and she offers warm long hugs at night before going to her room.

She admitted last week in Colorado she wanted to date other men and even have sex with them and told me I could do the same, but I wonder if that's not just partly testing me? Or it's just another bad behavior on her part to soothe over the hurt, but we all know that would likely prevent her from doing her growth work and even though she says she knows to do that work it could also be an attempt for her break even further away from me emotionally by doing another man?

I didn't react to it, but just calmly said OK, how would that work? You wouldn't bring them back to our house? She said no - we (either you or I) would go back to their places.

Finally, it was just in the past year that I caught Amy in her closet with her blood pressure machine. She doesn't have high blood pressure, but has a phobia of doctors and a great fear of growing old, not experiencing everything she wants in life before she dies, and her mother has had breast cancer and diabetes, but was fully cured of cancer by early detection and keeps diet and exercise to keep diabetes at bay.

But Amy had put off her mammogram for almost 2 year out of fear because she panics in doctor's offices and then he heart races and she afraid that will mean she's getting old and have to be put on medication. I told her warmly many months ago, "Honey I thought we got over that. Why are you hiding this from me? I love you and want to support you. I'll take my blood pressure with you."

Then she finally made an appointment to get a mammogram just before our vacation last week and they found something. She worried about it all vacation. I tried to be supportive without hovering or pursuing since we are sleeping in separate rooms and separated.

One night on the vacation she had 2 margaritas and we were alone on the patio and I gently stroked her hair and held her hand. She was accepting of this.

I asked her if she wanted me to stop and she said "OK - not now." Which I can take as OK not now, so maybe later, but I haven't felt the time was right to try to initiate anything and have kept my distance this week at home except for our good night hugs which she is willing to give before going to our separate rooms. She called me last night when she was going to work late, and we watched part of a kids movie together with our daughters before going to bed.

I can't help but feel hopeful, but have to keep my distance, act aloof, strong, look good. I'm running 4 miles a day and I do look good! Get smiles from attractive women on the street, etc. But I don't want to pursue that...I'm focused on Divorce Busting. I know Amy and I can be great. I know I can't force her, she has to come to me, and I put that in my letter of things I am changing.

Jim B

Hey Jim,

One thing you should probably do (not scolding you) is stick with one thread. It gets difficult for people to follow your situation if you have multiple threads going on.

Just a suggestion.

OK Thanks! Wasn't sure cause someone told me to also post under newcomers.

Jim B

Oh, I'm not sayingnot to post different threads in different forums - that is easy to follow. Just within the same forum, you would be better off sticking with one post.

Need Help fast on this double check me.

My wife who agreed to a 90 day in-house trial separation tried to push me tonight for a resolution, i.e. she says, "at the end of 90 days we must make a decision about our marriage."

I said, well we agreed to give it 90 days and to have an open mind per our marriage therapist's advice 2 weeks ago.

She pushed and said she wanted a definite agreement that at the end of 90 days there would be a divorce and that one of us - me would have to move out of our house that we have owned and that I have made the payments on for 11 years.

She paid other bills and we co-own the house. I calmly replied that I had agreed to give her complete space during the separation and our marriage therapist asked that we keep an open mind.

I gently suggested that what she was saying might not be in keeping with that spirit of an open mind.

She pushed again and said "we'll see what the therapist has to say." I said OK, but that I was satisfied with the current separation and that I knew we both had work to do on ourselves.

Of course, if you read my posts of the full situation above you will see that she is giving signs of NOT wanting to do the work on herself, but start dating and even sleeping with others while we are separated!

Of course, I will bring that up in our session with the marriage therapist tomorrow, i.e. I have been reading the purpose of a separation is to be introspective and work on yourself which I have made clear I will be doing regardless.

Finally, I said, "look if you really feel that you need even more space even though I'm not pushing or looking over your shoulder we just need to agree on who watches our daughters 6, 9 when, then you are free to get an apartment, but this is our home together and you have said you were satisfied with your own room here and come and go as you please other than our co-parenting of the children. (We have 4 bedrooms), and this is what Amy told the therapist a couple weeks ago before our family vacation.

She also was trying to push for one of us to rent a room somewhere and take turns in the house. I didn't respond to that one 2 weeks ago, but I am not in favor of that I would be totally depressed in a little room.

I'm not pursuing her, she has complete freedom and I've told her I am her unconditional friend. My view - if she feels that strongly about the need to feed her mid life crises then she is free to move out.

I could tell tonight FOR THE FIRST TIME since she's detonated her nuclear bomb on July 6, THIS gave her pause and she was noticeably irritated. She got a big smile on her face which I know usually means, "Oh so that's your little game strategy."

Even her twin sister told me confidentially, "Amy has had all the power up until now so of course she's feeling good like she's calling all the shots and in control of you, your best shot is to give her her space and remain resolute and patient. I've seen the love between you for the past 17 years and I don't think she appreciates what she has with you and the girls."

Thoughts? Support? I feel this is the essence of Divorce Busting, i.e. give total space, take care of myself, remain calm and give friendship, but also have boundaries to take care of myself, and moving out of my home is one of those boundaries

I feel very strongly about. I have been faithful to my wife for 17 years and I will weather this storm one way or the other and do the work on myself. She has yet to even begin to think about her work...but she is for the first time starting to...

Jim B

Jim B

True MLC's are scary things. They can make sane people do things you never would have expected and rewrite all of your history.

Truly, truly, do not move out. It is your home. While she may have decided how she thinks this will go, you are under no obligation to make this easy, simple, or for that matter, inexpensive for her.

Stay calm and resolute, focus on you, but set an anchor and hold on. Once she realizes things won't go as smoothly as she thinks, the storms will kick up.

Jim,

First, I hope you did not initiate the R talk. You seem to understand DB'ing, so I doubt you did. I would try to avoid those discussions at this point.

Second, a lot of things get debated here, but everyone pretty much agrees DO NOT MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE.

Third, you said your W was pushing you for a decision at the end of the 90 day S period. This is HER show, HER decision. Which means SHE is the one who will have a decision to make. Not you. If it comes up again, just tell her you understand her position, you don't agree with it (D), but that you cannot stop her from that decision.

It sounds like a little reality might help wake her up.

Going to the marriage therapist at 4pm today with wife who I know will try to push me for a decision at 90 days. Thanks tons for your advice! You're right -the 90 day deadline is her show. I cannot change what she is going to do only work on myself and stay on the Divorce Busting track and show her unconditional friendship.

If you believe in a Higher Power - please keep me in your thoughts at 4pm today central time U.S. and I'll update you all later. Thanks!

Jim B

Here's my update and questions I need help with.

Dating/sex for wife with others - told her I didn't condone it and neither did our marriage therapist, but I knew we are separated in same house and she could do this if she chose.

Wife says "so can you." with a smile on her face.

I said, what will that solve for me? Satisfy a short-term urge, but prevent me from really working on my issues.

Wife pushed for starting to talk about how divide up our property starting at 60 dayes because she wants to get her own apartment at the end of the 90 day in-house separation.

I said I wasn't comfortable with that and therapist told her if she wanted to get an apartment, go back to work full-time she could do those things and there would still be plently of time to negotiate those things hinting at Illinois mandatory 2 year separation before state would grant a divorce unless both people want divorce.

I of course am Divorce Busting and while I didn't say that I did say that just as Wife has made her position clear that she's 99% sure, I am of the opposite opinion.

My brotherinlaw agrees don't make it easy for her. If she wants to move out don't let her take apart our house with furniture, etc. What are everyone's thoughts on that?

It's wierd because she is willing to and offer to give long warm hugs morning and night time. Wife says this morning this is not easy on her either and she was also up at 6:30 not able to sleep.

Our 9 year old crawled into bed with her in her new room and I gave her a look - when she said what? I said, yeah - I would like to do that with a smile. She smiled and said well, it's different now.

We both acknowledged our differnt perspectives. She's 99% sure she wants a divorce and I'm holding on to my 1% hope. I said I know we have to go through our individual issues, but just can't help but feel that we could work together after that.

She said, "I'm not saying anything." with a little smile and really big twinkles like twinkles I have not seen in her eyes for years and then she gives me a gentle touch on my leg and face with her hand. Then on her way out to get a haircut she gives me a nice hug.

I'm taking this weekend to get out by myself and process this since she will be with her girlfriend next weekend. She's totally fine with that. Says have fun, it's OK be safe with a smile.

Man...I swear if I didn't know what we are going through anyone observing this would say we're in love...

Please give me your thoughts...
Jim B

BACKGROUND:
Went to the therapist yesterday with Wife. We discussed how to tell daughter 9 mommy would be sleeping in another room. Decided daughter 6 probably couldn't process this at the level of "mom and dad are trying to work through some issues." So daughter 6 will just be told mommy will be in your room for awhile which she will like. Our daughters sleep in the guest room already together so that's not disruptive.

We discussed Wife's desire to date others and even sleep with them if she wants to at their place because we are in our home together in separate rooms.

Marriage therapist says she doesn't recommend that because it doesn't allow you to focus on your issues if you get involved with another person. Wife says she knows she needs to work on her issues before she can really be in a relationship with me or anyone, BUT...I see the twinkle in her eye which I have seen before when she's looking forward to something.

Like she knows she shouldn't but it would feel good just for fun and to take her mind off things even though it would just be casual dating and/or sex.

I made the mistake of saying that a week before she detonated her nuclear bomb I told my brother-in-law while I didn't want it to threaten our marriage, if she wanted to go do someone to get it out of her system - OK. Marriage therapist looked at me funny when I said this, and I'm wondering am I crazy to have thought that?

Wife pushed for saying she was 99% sure she wanted a divorce, but didn't want it be contentious and wanted to discuss who gets what at 60 days which I didn't agree to so it went back to 90 days.

I to made this same statement at one point in time...Boy that is one of the things I wish I could reel back in now however I can't...

You seem to do the same thing I did...

You look for any and all crumbs within the interactions with your W...

You need to back off and do your 180's...

I know it is easier said then done but by going to her room or telling her you still have 1% hope is a form of pursuing and at this point you don't pursue...

You want her to wonder what you are up to...

You want her to pursue you...

You want her to second guess her decision...

She knows how you feel so drop it and become mysterious...

Don't bring it up anymore...

Don't discuss your R...

Just do things for you and your child/children