Just a thought... they don't have the "words" we do. So, knowing he knows what kind of Dad/person you are, yet verbalizing that Dad did something wrong; he probably can't put his arms around the idea of you actually doing something that wrong to make Mom not want to give him another chance. And, I'm sorry, but he didn't come up with that on his own. He's HEARD it. He's repeating.
Also, I'm an hour west of ORD. I was just razzin' you guys. I think it's awesome you got together and did ManStuff (so long as it is not ManScaping!LOL). It's so healthy!
Be good, and keep your chin up!
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
Short of telling them I didn't do anything bad, I have done the above... I don't want to smother them with it, but they each know they can talk to me about what they are feeling... They are liberal with that (except for D11), but this came as a surprise to me...
It's just so tough, isn't it? Finding that fine balance between what to talk about with the kids and what to keep to oneself...it just seems all to easy for the WAS to manipulate that kind of situation.
Quote:
And you think telling him that it is even more difficult for you to be friendly (or friendy as @Smiley would say) with her because she had inappropriate friendships with other men would be harmful to him in what way? Would it not be truthful? Would it not help him make more sense of the situation? It need not be expressed as ill-will; it isn't d*mning, but it is factual. Stated in the negative; isn't it possibly more unhealthy for him not to have enough of the story to make sense of it?
I guess my perspective is a bit different on this issue...since I tend to see my STBX's affair and EAs as symptoms of her unhappiness. My S12 already has so many misgivings about my STBX, that I don't think knowing about OMs would make much of a difference...of course, my sitch is different...since she's not his mom.
Quote:
Not sure why, but that strikes me as a very heavy message for a child to understand. There are many of us who have been told similarly on these very boards that still wrestle with that very concept...
I think it is a heavy message - but, oddly enough, when I talked with my S12 about it - it seemed to relieve him a lot - and he said it helped him make sense of a lot of "unfairness" in this world...for us, it turned into a conversation about the differences between people who face things that challenge them and figure out ways to overcome them - and people who simply buckled under and allow themselves to wither away...and the gradations in between.
Quote:
Gonna have to sleep on it. Don't want to give the Dr. up, so I don't want to probe the matter with S9. I guess when the opportunity presents itself, I will let him know that, as far a I know, I didn't do anything "really bad". Hope W present if and when this happens and she has "decency" to so offer on her own (or second if I have to say it), but that is not in my control. I get the impression Dr. will try to probe on this one, as she was clearly taken a back by it. Maybe I can even ask her to have him ask me or W if I did something bad... Still thinking... But, my eyelids are drooping...
So tough...I'm sure you'll find the right course of action...you've been doing so many amazing things for your kids through all of this.
And you think telling him that it is even more difficult for you to be friendly (or friendy as @Smiley would say) with her because she had inappropriate friendships with other men would be harmful to him in what way? Would it not be truthful? Would it not help him make more sense of the situation? It need not be expressed as ill-will; it isn't d*mning, but it is factual. Stated in the negative; isn't it possibly more unhealthy for him not to have enough of the story to make sense of it?
I guess my perspective is a bit different on this issue...since I tend to see my STBX's affair and EAs as symptoms of her unhappiness. My S12 already has so many misgivings about my STBX, that I don't think knowing about OMs would make much of a difference...of course, my sitch is different...since she's not his mom.
This has long since been the question I wrestle with most; it had been dormant, but with the finger feeling as if it is pointed back at me, it takes on some new significance.
I come back to what I've heard again and again; children need to be able to make sense of the situation in order not to blame themselves. To the boys, given what they've heard, the story that they've come up with to make sense of it all is that they "know Daddy did something really bad" as the explanation for why Mommy won't forgive him (give "Daddy a second chance") and has decided to get a divorce.
When you think about it, it's a very plausible explanation and the one they've come up with to "make sense of it" absent a more complete story.
At some level, this ties back to @Smiley's post to @Thinker this morning citing The Dance of Connection and which I hope I am not citing completely out-of context:
Quote:
...the author does make this point: Divorce is okay (in her POV), but only if you're fair about it. Granted, I take exception to a lot there, but her definition of "fair" is, well, fair -- full disclosure.
Hiding, denying, trying to put things back on the H -- that's not being heard, she says, it's not having a voice, and it's not fair. So I'll take that nugget and disregard her casual acceptance of divorce -- if WAS is going to divorce us because the R hasn't been to their taste, because we haven't "been there," or whatever, I see no reason why WAS should hide information. Hiding implies guilt, a need to hide. As the author writes, if you're going to mess up someone's life (and maybe some childrens' lives and maybe your own life to boot), at least have the guts to be open and fair about it.
In the meanwhile, it feels that what she writes in these journals back-and-forth with the kids is leading to parental alienation... of me. I realize it isn't intentional and that it's her own way of dealing with this sitch, but the observable outcome is unacceptable.
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
Yes, it is. Please be careful in this regard, Alex.
Puppy
Yes, it's a tightrope. I don't want them to be alienated from their mother, but I CAN'T have them believing I did something so bad that it led to W choosing D...
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
Yes, it is. Please be careful in this regard, Alex.
Puppy
Yes, it's a tightrope. I don't want them to be alienated from their mother, but I CAN'T have them believing I did something so bad that it led to W choosing D...
Alex- I will discuss this with my T today and I will chime in if I get any insight (though it is first visit so may not get too far).
Thanks A&K, but don't use your valuable time with T on this unless it's very much part of what you want guidance from T for with respect to your sitch...
-AlexEN
New: What a Weekend
H-48 WAW-49 M-22 S-14,9 D-11 EA disc.-11/07 PA disc.-3/08 EA2?-6/08 to ?
It is what tortures me the most...in addition to where I'm going to live, if I should file, how I am going to support myself, how to manage H's expectations and acting out, you know, the little things...
Ya, my kids blaming me for this and them being manipulated in this process...huge issue for me.
