You are going through a really tough patch at the moment, and doing very well. This is where my theory of them needing an event to snap them out of their current mood kicks in. Sounds like he has the black dog of depression visiting right now too, maybe read up on that a bit? Exercise would be ideal, but anything to change his head space will do it.
Clearly, you are not going to be that person, well directly anyway. However, where there is a will, there is a way. Could you get the kids to involve him in something he would enjoy? I actually got our closest couple friends (who were sensitive!) on the phone and asked the bloke to please invite H out for preferrably sport, but anything would do as he was feeling blue with life at the moment - please dont take no for an answer, and keep doing it for the next couple of months. This REALLY helped, not just cos it did get him out of the house a couple of times, but also cos it was not just me trying to fix things, you know what I mean?
If you cannot shift him at all, take off to a friends sudden emergency for a couple of days to recharge your batteries.One hours notice, no time to sort anything, just jump in the car and GO (Thelma and Louise style!)
Just aim on getting through his break best way possible for you.
I did notice my H was like this during his depression type phase, it seemed to indicate his replay was coming to an end and he was moving further down the tunnel. H was actually very very down, ended up going away for a weekend getting really smashed, thought about topping himself for the first time in his life, kind of bottomed out then moved forward.
For yourself, stuff like funny movies (good for the kids too), upbeat music, wine, exercise with dog etc wine!. Vent away heaps too.
I had this sinking feeling that Monday evening was presaging a storm from H and yesterday morning I got all his anger in the chin.
Now H really HAS an anger issue-right since the year dot he`d get so mad he`d lash out to the point that I`d be afraid he`s hit me but typically he would leave the house then and drive off to calm down. Never came back remorseful because, in his book, it was all MY fault. That happened again last Oct, only this time he did take the two fists up to me, dance around like a boxer and yell"Do you want to f***in fight C`mon and F*** fight, within earshot of my sons. I took him to court for physical intimidation, got a protection order against him though I didn`t follow through on getting a safety order as I`d thought he`d learnt his lesson was attending counselling.
Ok, fast forward and he is STILL angry. Only I`m not afraid that he`ll hit me anymore cos he KNOWS I`ll take him to court. Now he says he`s angry BECAUSE I took him to court. He had a very troubled childhood. Witnessed his Mum being beaten by his father, left unconcious, arm broken, bruised and battered right up til H was 18. It was NEVER spoken about within his family til now!And H maintains he had a happy childhood...
Yesterday I asked H if he slept ok, that sparked a rant from him. I stayed calm(though shaking) as he said"You have destroyed my life", not to call him `sweetheart` because I never loved him, that I should go away on my own fro a few days that he is well capable of looking after the children.
I told him I didn`t want to go away on my own for a few days but I would be taking the children for a break in August. I reminded him that I was going yesterday for the day, as we`d arranged. I told him that dealing with him was like dealing with two differnt people The Nice Guy who`d texted the previous week that he`s "Love if I joined him for the evening for the wedding" and the Angry Guy who`s spent weeks telling me I couldn`t go the same wedding.I told him the sitch was difficult fro me too and that I had been presecribed tranquillsers. He said "They give those to cows" I left the room.
I left and went away for the day. I`ve nothing in my bank acc (meanwhile H is looking to buy a top of the range bike for himself and change his car-more MLC stuff)but my dear sis forwarded me money, was a listening ear on the phone as was my other GF who`s had similar problems herslef and has offered me her apt for a holiday with the kids. So, yes, I found silverlinings to yesterday`s black mood.
My family want me to go to the solicitor and get H out of the house. He is doing my head in. Home yesterday evening I got more of the same. Him standing over me while I was on the PC, him checking through my PC history when he got the chance, looking through my mail(sis had sent me a parcel of goodies). He did nothing with the kids all day"I was here for them wasn`t I?"he says, the house was filthy, he dropped and collected DS14 from golf.
I`m not sure what kickstarted this mood. He`s on his 2nd week of two weeks hols and last week my niece being here meant H had to be civil. He was in his folks place at the w`end. I suspect they gave him and earful re separation and yet he would have given them no hope of reconciliation with me.I know he found my vibrator and my DB book on Monday(mixed messages there!)
Anyway, SR, I`ve got my Thelma and Louse bolthole. Sis offered for me to stay in her house ANY time the giong gets tough and I can say there`s an emergency at home as my parents live near her and could need us at any time.
I have similar offers from other sibs and my dear GF who`s also offered me her holiday apt this year.
H has finally dusted off his clubs and is going golfing with DS14 today! (This is really part of his "I`m a good Dad"act with separation in mind but hey, I`m glad to have him outta the house for the am)but it could kick start an interest and I know just the couple who could help me in that regard si yes, thanks for the suggestion! H just mulls around and does nothing when he`s home-really depression type stuff so getting someone else to pull him out is and inspired idea. Thanks!
And guess, what, I`d already planned to take the younger two to the new HP movie this pm so that`ll get me through this evening.
Like you say, one day at a time.
Sooo disappointed I`m getting nowhere with this and really tempted to get him out of the house for good!
Sounds like you have the next few days covered. Can I suggest you plan a fun "family event for the last afternoon of the holidays, something H may participate in in a small way so that the end of the holidays is a good memory for all involved?
Right, now I woud like to back up in you sitch, as there are a couple of things I am not clear on. These are all just thoughts to get you thinking, ok!
1) I get your H has always done the Heathcliffe thing, but how have you guys been as a couple together? Have you always had a connection and lived together ok in gereral, or good connection, hard to live with, or connection that comes and goes etc? I am just trying to get a feel for what you are fighting for in your marriage apart from for your kids etc.
2) I get your H is mad at you for taking him to court for the threatened violence etc. But what happened before that to take him to that stage, that to me is a more important issue to be able to work through your sitch (Not saying violence isn't huge, just putting that aside right now first). And have you seen him this angry before, if so how many times? Is there pressure from elseware in his life (eg work he is having hassles with etc) that could potentially be changed to remove some pressure from him right now?
3) If he is in the middle of anger and depression, then its kind of like a chemical pot where the good in control emotions get used up and the raw ones then come out. They bad ones then seem to be let out until the pressure build up is released enough and the cycle build up begins again. He may have used the good ones up with your niece and have none left right now. Thats why I am suggesting looking for exercise or events that help him to recharge the good emotions. You may not be able to control what he does, but if you know xyz is a recharge for him, its a help for you too.
And with depression stuff is it common for him to cycle through and get worse, does he seem to do this on a weekly basis (hates mondays etc) or monthly basis etc. And do the cycle lengths seem to be getting closer together, or staying about the same?
If you can spot these cycles then it gives you the windows when you have the best chance to talk to him, just after a big outburst often, but you need your 30sec message ready for that window when it comes. Thats your chance to give the small R message "I know you need a lot of space now, I would still like to be part of your life".
I would back off taking to his family about his situation completly given how he is right now. If his mum asks, just say talk to H about how he is, I am "ok" and just doing my best each day.
I dont think major crisis mode is the time for anyone to make major separation decisions, both parties should be calm to make that formal choice. I get the money hassles, and the need to do something there, but remember the 48hour rule before doing anything. I had a similar childhood to your H so understand how he is. It will be very hard for him to change, but if he has kept his violence together ok until this crisis, then I would see an intermediate aim being for him to get back to that level before he could begin to work on himself.
Currently he is stuck, but he is using up so much energy he will not be able to stay there indefinately. You can not do anything now but you can have your next move a pearler and ready to go. This is the time and patience part to your advantage. Being able to stick out the crap he is sending your way now???? Thats what I am asking about the good parts about your relationship, the connection between you guys etc. Seems like he thinks there is something there with a faint pulse still????????
Gosh, I'm sorry for where you are. I understand living with someone "that angry." My H was there last Fall. The only thing I can tell you is this. In November I founded the DR book, and started implementing the principles that I was comfortable with. It was a saving tool for me. The part that "took the edge" off of my H, was me telling him... "Listen, I know you're unhappy. I'm unhappy. I know you think you're done. Mentally, and emotionally, I'm not able to process this right now. My heart is still with us. I think this is fixable. Let's do this... The holidays are coming up. Let's agree to put all of this chaos, emotion, etc... aside, and just enjoy the holidays with the kids. Then we can revisit the situation after the New Year." After the New Year he gave me a card for our anniversary (with a present) that said, "I'd go down on bended knee all over again for you... (OPEN CARD) I just might not be able to get up this time!" I never brought the subject up again. H is not a "talker.," so neither did he. We've had one hiccup since then (when I got emotional at an event we attended - hello, say no to the wine/shots combo!), and I heard the same ol' same ol', but have significantly improved (DUE TO MY DB EFFORTS - PAT ON BACK!) since then. H is MUCH easier to be around, is MUCH more attentive, makes plans for the future, etc... We're nearing a stage to move to the next step. Just not there yet.
I tell you this succinctly, because this process does work (still haven't figured out the detaching!!!).
Maybe (without making it a R talk) verbalizing that you know he feels shitty, and so do you. We only have so many weeks left with the kids home for the summer, etc... Let's just enjoy them! Let the rest go for now, and agree to think about, discuss it then. I'm willing to try.
An afterthought... two weeks after I delivered the "Let's just enjoy the holidays speech" H comes to me on a Sunday night, and says... "this was a really fun weekend, huh?" SMILING! OF ALL THINGS!
I get it. I get the misery in their eyes, and stupid behavior.
Just my input!!
LOVE Storm Rider's above stuff!
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
Gosh, girls, I`m just so thankful to both of you for your time and input on my sitch.
H has always been moody nad yes, in some kind of cyclical phase-just out of the blue for a couple of weeks he`d stop talking, look very sullen-basically sulk-and give nor reason why. Very infuriating to live with!(oh and of course I got infuriated and then he`d get annoyed at me for getting angry....I don`t do anger anymore;it just doesn`t work)
He had an affair with a co worker a 18mths prior to his threatenng to punch me. I found out when her H rang. Our M just slid down the slopes from then on. Some would say what led to the A. I was utterly shocked and had thought everything was fine between us. But he says everything was wrong with me-I was too hard on him, I was no good in bed, we are incompatible, blah, blah. Yet, last Xmas he sent me a card which said there would be better times ahead. Its a selective memory thing. Our M has had ups and downs. This nightmare is making me more aware of what I could have done to save the downs.
Thanks for the depression insight, SR! I`ll be waiting for that window! And I`m trying to figure out the cycles. I`ve always felt he improves before he goes home to his folks and is worse when he returns. We`ll see;he`s due to go down there next week. I might have a window then.
Will try the happy family last minute thing. Can`t think what that can be and even, given H`s intractibility, if it can be. We`ll see!
MB, good idea on the `let`s drop the big issue and have some fun` convo! Like that idea of not having a serious talk with H and keeping things light. Mind you I am in LRT for MONTHS at this stage, just looking to change tactics.
Good to know you`ve survived this Big Anger thing too.
So out of all the things your H is not happy with you about, what ones at the top of the list do you think are most valid, you are able to change and will have most impact on him in a positive way? You have listed previously the way you have been speaking to him, LRT and DB have addressed that, you have been working on the horizontal dancing issue. Do you understand his issues there and feel able to address them? And what other issues are you tackling?
He WILL be watching you and you will be filling back up his credit tank. Once his anger is under control or he is able to peek out through the fog at those sort of things he will come to the fore front.
So have you both worked through the affair? You seem to have been able to have put it in the past in that you don't mention it a lot? Has he been able to forgive himself so he can move on and does he get your position on it? And is he stuck in the same place as just before he had the affair or has he moved through that place at least?
Okay, Stormrider, thanks for the questions. Good for me to reflect on that. This is the stuff he`s mentioned during our very brief moments of clarity in the past few months
1. I don`t listen to him. He`s right! I attack! yak!yak! Fire back at him rather than really listen to what he has to say. I`ve really worked on that one.Its been good for me to really listen to that bit of advice from him and take it on board.
2. I put him down. In every way I see that i have-from what I have said to him to the way I have neglected him and taken control of our lives.
3. I get really angry with him. From LRT I can see how he baits me to get angry. He stays locked in his mood til I`m weeping/coaxing/yelling in frustration or all three. Now, I`ve learnt to leave him there. And stand bak and watch him trying to pick a row. Yesterday for example, when I was mowing the lawn he picked up a ball to clear it out of my way and actually threw it at me! I didn`t fight back-just continued mowing and called him on it later. Gently quietly establishing my right to be treated properly there too.
4.I`m addressing our intimacy issues as best I can-more specifically my issues with intimacy, since I can`t do a whole pile about it without him on board at the moment. He`ll notice immediate changes there if he cares to go there again!
H did confess yesterday that he lies quicker than tells the truth. That he lies to everybody-co workers, people in his football blub, his clients at work just a the drop of a hat and thinks nothing of it. This was said in the context of my asking him why he lookied guilty and dropped the mobile phone when he was out for a walk yesterday and I drove past him. You see, the A is far from over in my head. I don`think he`s acting like a man in another relationship but he has done nothing to rebuild that trust and look for forgiveness. Instead I`ve lies about a hotel he denied staying in, phone on silent/hidden. still working with the OW. And now he confesses lying is second nature.
I couldn`t even go there with validating or thanking him for admitting it. I just looked straight into his eyes and thought "Who the heck did I marry?"
His brother, SIL and family are home from US and came to visit us yesterday. This is my BIL who most understands our sitch and gave me a lot of good advice initially but is hanging back from us now and leaving us to it. I don`t know why he called-he`d met H and the kids last weekend. Anyway, it got H out of the guestroom for another night and, for a change, I let H do all the running-normally I`d look after all guests re dinners, bed linen etc but I just stuck to pouring wine, enjoying the kids and chatting last night.
He`s stuck, I`m stuck. I hate living with him when he`s angry and hating me. It just saps the energy out of me. I wonder if it would be easier db or indeed, move on, if I just threw him out.
As I failed miserably on the intimacy issue this week, I figure I`ll reverse the goals for this week. I was looking for compliments and intimacy-I`m gonna hand them to H first.
So here are my goals for the week
1.Agreeing whole heartedly with H when he criticizes me for doing something."You are so right and I`m really working to change that"
2.Compliment him on something.
3.Get into his personal space in a non intimidatory way-just relax in his space just briefly.
On my GAl goals, I`m going to
Work on my genealogy project everyday. Walk/cycle yoga every day Paint son`s room Play tennis with the kids and their playdates. Go away for a night on my own at the week end(H is taking the kids to his folks) Bone up on my tax sitch(H used to take care of that) Have neighbours in for coffee Contact two old friends Get dressed to the nines every day. Read a book Contact my book club buddies with date for get together Start painting again(as in art, not walls!)
1 and 2. The listen and the put down can be handled easily by err, not talking, just nodding, Hmmm, ok or other one words. I had these issues too! Only talk to him about as you would a co-worker, no deep topics, only polite chit chat full sentences?
3. Thats harder when someone else is too, so its about trying to treat him like a co-worker who is angry. Sounds like you have been doing quite a bit of work on this one.
My H lied heaps during anger, not like him at all. If you are both stuck, then its you showing how right now how to interact differently on these issues, one little step at a time.
Your goals, compliments are good right now I think. Especialy if you have been coming down on them. Might not see impact immediately, but sort of thing that may help break cycle over more time.
