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hhh,



My situation is that we are kind of in limbo. W is here for the kids but we don't have a relationship other than being roommates right now. It could change - I am still hoping. W still is in contact with OM that she had the EA with, but the intensity of the relationship has waned and this may be the best that I can hope for in the short term.

It turns out that W also answered 'no' when they asked if she was involved with anyone else. She lied I guess, but at the same time I think she was thinking that she would try to cool down the EA while she went through the program. It turned out that the intense focus on the R drove her closer to the OM.

I guess the issue with us was that she actually was 'actively' involved with someone, and not in a R that was on hold like Sara's husband. This allowe Sara's husband to more easily open his eyes to the possibility of his M I figure and not run from the work that was needed.

One of the things they stress is that Love is a Choice and not a Feeling. During the weekend I brought this up with W in private and she said "I don't want to have to CHOOSE anything"! This was because she had feelings for OM and didn't want to choose to turn away from that R in favor of her M.

About a month after the initial weekend (we attended all the posts) I discovered the true nature of the EA and just how attached she was to OM. When we discussed it, she mentioned that when we went to the Retrouvaille weekend she decided to try to cut off the EA, but found that by doing that she really had feelings for the OM (by not talking to him she noticed how much she missed it) and went back to him a couple of weeks afterwards. At the time I discovered the EA she didn't want to continue with the posts because she said it wasn't right because she was invovled with someone else. She made a comment that it is too bad that the OM was in the way because we weren't able to use Retrouvaille to focus on the original problems we were having before she got involved with the OM.

Also, once I discovered the EA she did end it for a while and it resurfaced more recently.

My W also has a hard time looking at herself critically and tends to skate along the surface in serious discussions and not get too deep, and to get the most out of the experience you need to be able to focus on your deepest emotions.

Anwyay, I would highly recommend this to anyone but be careful if your spouse is heavily involved with someone else. I know I figured I didn't have anything to lose and also didn't realize everything she was doing, and in the end W drifted further away but at the same time I know she learned a lot and it transformed me in many ways as well. If we begin to R I know the things we learned there will help us in the future.

Thank you so much. H is not in a relationship as far as I know... we have minimal contact and he is about to leave for close to 2 months next week.. he already has the materials on the program and said "what's the point if i've already made up my mind" which I thought the scripting above might be helpful to use to counter..ok, i hear you, but i'd be more comfortable ending this on a positive note if you would try this with me. What if he still refuses? Do I bring it up now or when he comes back, just 1-2 weeks before the program? Do I ask someone else to encourage him to go? I just want to get him there at this point. Love your thoughs. Thanks, hhh

Hi, hope you won't mind if I butt in with my comments. Prior to this I just posted in the thread I started.

Retrouvaille probably helped save my marriage. I honestly don't think I'll still be married now otherwise. Sure, we have our issues to work out still, and it was not like an overnight miracle, but it gave us that chance when all seemed really hopeless.

Although more detailed in my thread, my sitch going in was:

- W in an A with OM. Completely and totally in love with him. Felt that he was her soulmate.
- Had given up on our M in all but name, also affected by colleagues who had fallen ill, and couldn't bear to think her life could end one day and she never seized the chance to be with her real love.
- Cared for me and did not want to see me hurt but that was it.
- Put the kids first and was prepared to stay in the M to give them a stable family. also, did not want to break up OM's family.
- Made it clear there was ZERO feelings for me, including sexually, and only wanted OM.
- Despaired over what we had and how it was gone, could not see if we could re-discover our love.
- Went for counselling, did not help. In fact, W felt it validated her true love with OM and that she had to decide if responsibility to the kids came before that. If she would have OM AND the kids, and OMW and kids (and me) were to disappear, that would have been perfect.
- We were completely tearing each other apart when we spoke at all, two strangers living in different planets in the same house.
- Insistent she could keep OM as a friend.
- I had just about had enough. Wanted so badly to wake her up. Also so wanted badly out of my own pain. It was truly hellish.

I showed W the website, taked to her, told her to take it as a "last resort". W agreed to go "if you think it'll help you". She was convinced it won't help her. She was also a disillusioned Christian (from way back), and was deeply suspicious of Catholicism and expected the folks there to be preachy about religion and M. Towards the program and the day itself, she got increasingly negative and kept asking if we could not go. Although technically both partners have to say they're willing to work on things, I dragged her there.

On the ride over, she kept asking if we could cop out, and wanted guarantees that we could leave any time she wanted out. And she wanted out 5 minutes after we picked up our name tags. I asked her to give it one day at least.

I won't say too much more, but these were the highlights for me:

- End day 1 - went to sleep wanting to leave.
- Day 2 pm, W told me she had communicated with me more than she had for years.
- Day 2 around midnite, I had gone to have a private chat with a program leader, when I went to our room, I kissed her good nite, turned into a long kiss. I'll never forget the way she looked at me then and said "Deep, I felt that. For the first time in a long time, I felt you in that kiss".
- Day 3 she hugged me tight after lunch and told me she was glad I made us attend

When we drove home after, she thanked me for giving us a chance to work things out. (wrote me a note after that again to thank me in writing). She went to unpack first and I hugged her from behind when I came in. She just completely broke down. Cried and cried. Then hugged me and said "I'm sorry, I'm so, so sorry".

It was the first time I believed she gave me a sincere apology.

Things were far from perfect after that. We had immense difficulties and fights and challenges, but it was an important point of time for me.

As I posted in the thread I started, some of the problems we now have seem to be more focused on me. I spoke to her today, felt much better, and her reply (unexpectedly) had something to do with Retrouvaille.

(I made my weekend March last year)

I would bring it up before he leaves. These weekends do fill up. You need to reserve your spot in advance and send a deposit. It is possible to get in at the last minute (because there are sometimes cancellations), but it's best to send the deposit and feel committed to go.

Deep and Sara,
Thank you so much for your thoughts and that this program was such a wonderful experience for you. I fear my marriage is just about over and he is waiting for me to 'give in'... he's not pressing papers or D yet, just living his own life without me and got a new apt downtown w a friend. I would love him to commit to going as a way for us to heal, and given how long we've been together...and that it will help is with communication regardless of the outcome. Part of me is leery giving his feelings now if this would turn things around, but it's worth a shot. I would give anything to get him there. If he says no again that he's made up his mind, do I ask if maybe if could be a 'parting gift' to me, or something?

Also, do you have any thoughts on suggesting WAS reads DR or would that not make sense?

He said he'd call me to get together before he left next Fri, but hasn't called me yet. I might reach out and see if he'll meet for coffee tomorrow... i've really backed off and not reached out to him much at all past couple months, so think this might be ok since he is leaving? he only calls now when he wants to pick stuff up from our apt or borrow our car.

I don't know what else to do. Most of my friends say to move on but I want to do anything to save my marriage... we've had a good marriage for the most part but he just graduated from business school and feels like he has this new lease on life, new friends, ego-boost, etc...it's like he's changed into a different person. he used to be so soft and kind (and i kind of wore the pants in our relationship) and now he's turned into this cold, mean person to me...I think to make the split easier for him.

Thanks for all your thoughts and if you have any other ideas suggested on R program or any other ways to get through to him, I would welcome them!

Good luck to you both as well.
Kindly,
hhh

Deep - that is a great story!

Did she break it off with OM right after the weekend was done, or did it take some time? Did she go no-contact? I can check out your thread to get the story I guess.

I know this program has the potential to transfor marriages if partners are open to it - and it is true that not all are when they show up. I heard many stories of couples like yours where one spouse was just there to get it over with but left with a different attitude.

Hi trying, I replied partially (kind of) in your thread .

She broke off the A before the weekend, but not the "friendship". As of now, and I mean today, she has not broken off contact - as mentioned in my thread.

To some, that is breaking a cardinal rule, and it's not a small thing to me. But I think you'll know in your sitch if your W ever had a change of heart (positively), you'll know the difference in a million ways. Well, in a million ways my W has shown such an about turn that I was loathe to rock the boat. The overall situation was such that there was so much to be thankful for.

I'll post a short update in that thread.

DR and DBing are for you to work on you getting better, GAL, 180s etc...

Most people on this website do not recommend letting the spouse read DB or DR because it is like showing your hand when playing cards. There are many valuable books with relationship help. My husband and I read After the Affair by Janis A. Spring. We found that book helpful. He packed it in his bag when we went to Retrouvaille, but there was no time to read there.

Sara,
Do you have any advice if my H still refuses to go to Retrouvaille? I haven't brought it up again in last 2 wks, but hoping to mention again before he leaves. He's in such a closed off/moving on place right now I don't know if he'd be open to it, but scared to wait too long. Do you think saying 'ok, if you go and at the end still want a divorce I will give in' is too risky? I am just afraid he'll keep turning me down and I see this program as our only hope. (He's also doing a volunteer project abroad for part of the summer so hope that will put him in a better/kinder frame of mind, but there's also the risk that in being gone he'll become farther away from me and this relationship).
Thanks...your posts are wonderful,
I keep praying
hhh