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I agree...it/they can motivate people to make changes/take action. But again, I don't think fear and jealousy are good foundations to rebuild a relation on! There is a difference between motivating factors and foundations upon which a relationship are built.

Plus use this analogy:

WAS has a new love interest, exciting person, emotional connection, physical connection, it's great, it's new, it's exciting (I've said exciting already).

WAS has a great spouse who has spent alot of time working on personal development and really is starting to shine.

So they have a "new toy" which is exciting to play with.
And they're discovering their "old toy" is fun to play with too.

When a person has the comfort of being able to make a choice and isn't forced to make a choice immediately, what would motivate the WAS to make a choice at all? When they have a choice between an exciting new lover and a great spouse and no one is making them choose, don't they have the best of both worlds? New & exciting and safe & secure. If both the "new" and "old" toy enable this environment for the WAS and no one wants to rock the boat, what would ever motivate the WAS to make a decision? If there is no fear of loss, the WAS can technically enjoy both.

Sure you can tell the WAS that you won't be in an open relationship but don't they already have the idea in their head that the LBS made a lot of changes to get them back, to impress them, to make them see that the LBS has great value and should be considered?

In this situation, the WAS is with the "new" toy and that is currently their first choice. The WAS also has the "old" toy, that is their second choice, their fallback, their safety net just in case the first option doesn't work out. When we enable this behavior by saying that it's ok that we're 2nd choice don't we communicate lower value indirectly that way?

When we remove that 2nd choice,
fear, jealousy & fear of loss motivates the WAS to make a choice or if we look at this from the LBS perspective, we remove the choice that the WAS had, we remove ourselves from the options list and we show them that it's our choice to make and if we do this by dating, don't we communicate indirectly that they no longer have higher value.

Yes I know I'm totally over thinking all of this but I think alot of this has to be close to be accurate.

Rob, actually that was quite brilliant.

Exactly. Which is why so many on these forums are "stuck." That's why I don't believe in "trying to 'win back' a wayward spouse." It's emasculating, and it flies in the face of human nature, which says that people don't do anything until they have to (path of least resistance).

GAL, work on yourself, and completely drop the rope. Or, as someone else posted recently (I think it was Sandi), they're starting to advise just about EVERYONE to go directly to the LRT.

Puppy

LOL!

Thank you, when you get a chance let my wife know that ;-)

Dating as an act of revenge (creating jealousy, fear) or as a means of moving forward with your life? It would seem to me to go outside your marriage for emtional and/or physical companionship in these cicumstances, conveys, not necessarily directly to your spouse but to yourself, that you have thrown in the towel. And yes, they no longer have higher value, very little value in fact since you now have a "new toy" yourself to play with after realizing the "old toy" and your need for them is really just a train wreck you are trying to salvage parts from.

I think also, that, many of these WAS spouses are in self-righteous mode. And no matter what they do is correct in their eyes, but what you do, if you are mimicing their behavior can be another nail in the coffin, so to say. Fine line to thread here.

Is it a decision we must make between personal happiness and what works to maintain a marriage? Steve.

"How can I hurt someone (presumably one of the Florence Nightingales) who has offered it in full knowledge of the situation? Or maybe you mean WAW? I'd be happy to have some clarification there."

I was talking about the "Florence Nightingales". Who are you fooling here? There are going to be women who say they "understand your sitch, etc." but then may get emotionally attached. Then you're going to come off as the d*ck because your attitude is going to be...well, I told you I just wanted sex.

Dating I can see. But if your intention is to go straight out and get laid, you may get a rep. of being an @$$ and you may catch something in the meantime.

Just my 2 cents.

Psy and I had a good conversation about "throwing in the towel" or "accepting reality". I expressed I my actions suggested the words "given up" and I was considering the implications. He replied, "Really? Or have you just accepted what's in your world? And are you making what's best of it?" Indeed I feel I had. No guilt.

I've dropped the rope because I'm tired of getting pulled around.

Previous marriage a "train wreck to pull parts from"? Doesn't matter. It doesn't exist anymore.

I'm not dating anyone and don't expect to be for some time. W has no window into my life and I have none into hers. So when the time comes, dating (for me at least) will not be an act of jealousy, punishment, rage, or pure self-interest, but something I do willingly in my own life, for my own life, and for the new person I meet. No guilt.

<< When she was en flagrante with Signore Schmuckatelli, ...
Ah, I see now he's half German, half Italian.

<< I did in fact have an expectation of fidelity, given that I thought (foolishly, as it happens) that I was married. I did not then know I was already dead.
Ah, that's why marriage is not what civil law says it is; its got to me MUCH more than that.

<< The latter was an extra-marital affair (from my POV -- note, not from WAW's, Herself already having decided to drop the Bomb).
True. On the 'petition' what 'date of separation' did the 'petitioner' put down? My WAW put down a date about 2 years before she 'filed' and to this day I've no idea why - it could be in her mind that's when she "walked away" and got involved with OM (or Signore S. in your case). Point is they can "separate" at any imaginary time.

I agree completely Robx, with one distinction.

The idea is that the WAS has to believe that they are in danger of losing LBS, that LBS is valuable, and that they (WAS) has to make a choice.

Dating is one way to do this. It is a simple and direct way, but it is not the only way, and it has it's own dangers and entanglements. It is also only really possible for those LBS's who are separated, already D'd, etc.

This is why DB places emphasis on being busy, being somewhat mysterious, and being unavailable. This shows that the LBS is valuable (interesting, busy, unavailable), and helps WAS see that they may be losing LBS (Unavailable, mysterious, so what is he or she doing anyway...?) LBS also needs to conquer his or her own fear of D so that he/she can firmly set boundaries and be ready to enforce them - also showing that WAS may be about to lose LBS.

I don't have anything against Dating itself, but I do know myself. The moment I start dating / sleeping with another woman would be the moment I have given up on my M, because I know that I would immediately become emotionally entangled with the new woman.