Hey there... since we horned in on Sooner's thread, I thought I'd bring a piece of the note you dropped me there over to here so we can discuss on your thread.
Quote: But, Corrie, what happens when the HD turns herself inside out suggesting ideas, trying to help, being available and upbeat. I never criticize, am happy to listen to his work woes and give him a safe place to vent. I make sure I tell him I love him, kiss/hug him every morning before and after work. I've wracked my brain. What else can I possible do or say or offer? We have a C appt on Wednesday, but what happens if the C suggests the same sensual turn-on ideas I have?
This HD is at her wit's end. My self-esteem is in the toilet. I feel worthless and undesireable. I know I shouldn't take it personally, but I honestly feel my only lot in the M is as household drudge and source of income, although I'm sure that's not true.
Have you tried backing off completely? Maybe because you came from an abusive marriage before, you are trying too hard to make this one work and be happy... instead of letting it develop into the relationship that was meant to be?
I don't mean that as a criticism, but I think that sometimes LDers feel overwhelmed by their HD spouses because the HD wants to 'fix' the problem. Now. I don't blame the sentiment in the least, but the sentiment almost becomes a double-edged sword because the LD interprets that as 'pressure.'
Was your H married before you? If so, what was his previous marriage like? If not, maybe your H doesn't know how to handle the type of love you are giving to him. If he is an independent sort, you could be doing too much for him. He could feel resentment towards you, but buries that deep inside of himself because he loves you so much. Does that make any sense?
I think the statement I made about the HDers needing to be understanding too was in error... at least in the context that I said it. That was a blanket statement that was really only intended about my H, and I apologize for it.
So, tell me more about him. What's his life been like while you were stuck in that awful first marriage of yours.
Yep. Did the complete 180 thing from SSM. All it got me was, "Are you mad at me?" "What did I do?" So, he did notice, but the effects weren't positive. So, now I don't say anything, I don't do anything, I don't initiate. I fear I will finally get to the "I don't care" stage, which is the kiss of death.
Quote: Was your H married before you? If so, what was his previous marriage like?
Yes. He'd been married and divorced 3 times before we met up again. And there have been a number of failed non-marriage relationships, too. He's been closed-mouthed about his first marriage (the one I believe triggered his feelings, attitudes). He says that he's had performance anxiety ever since his first marriage. If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt him), then I can understand why subsequest relationships failed. Many women would not have the patience or desire to work on the problem. His first marriage lasted 8 yrs, 2nd marriage was a bit over a year and 3rd lasted about 6 years. All three of these were while he was in the Army. In at least one subsequent relationship he arrived home to find his girlfriend in bed with OM.
Quote: maybe your H doesn't know how to handle the type of love you are giving to him.
Funny you should mention this, as he's told me that no one has ever loved him or done for him like I do and sometimes he doesn't know how to act. He'll follow that with "I'm not complaining, just no one has ever accepted me for who I am."
Quote: If he is an independent sort, you could be doing too much for him. He could feel resentment towards you, but buries that deep inside of himself because he loves you so much. Does that make any sense?
Makes sense and it could be true. I do make about double the money he does, but he's assured me he has no problems with that. But maybe he just doesn't want to admit this to me, which is why I'm hoping a 3rd party can help sort this all out.
Quote:
I think the statement I made about the HDers needing to be understanding too was in error... at least in the context that I said it. That was a blanket statement that was really only intended about my H, and I apologize for it.
No apology needed. If you hadn't we wouldn't be having this exchange and I would not get the benefit of your insight. You do make some valid and thought-provoking statements, some of which I can see me addressing in therapy.
Quote: So, tell me more about him. What's his life been like while you were stuck in that awful first marriage of yours.
He got married about 1.5yrs after we parted ways in Nov.1969. Not sure if his folks liked that woman, either, as H said they eloped. Joined Army, had son in '72. Not sure when divorced, but she said she didn't love him anymore and was sleeping in another room.
Married 2nd on rebound for both of them. After a yr they agreed it was not working. Lack of sex was a factor.
Married 3rd time to Army nurse, who was hooked on drugs (unbeknownst to both Army and H at the time). She went through rehab and was sent on remote assignment. While away she started going out with OMen, then filed for Sep, then for D.
When I 'found' him again in 2002, he'd been divorced for 12 years, had moved around a lot due to his job as a long-distance trucker, and had moved back into his childhood home. Last relationship with woman (other than casual date) was 5 years prior.
As I'd mentioned before H is a very good man. I think he has demons he needs to shed in order for us to go forward with a complete marriage. What kept me looking for him all these years? This is part of a letter [slightly edited] I wrote to him about a week ago:
It wasn’t the sex. I will admit that, for me, sex is an important function of a normal and healthy marriage, but it is not the most important thing in a relationship. What is important to me?
When I first met you, you displayed all of the above in a way not usually found in a young man. It was obvious to me that you loved women and not just for sexual release. What’s more, you knew how to treat a woman with courtesy and respect, kindness and concern. Also usually not found in one so young. Those traits stuck in my mind for that was how my dad treated my mom and it was what I wanted for myself.
Well, I thought I’d found it, but as we both know, I didn’t.
In the time we’ve been back together, I can see that the young man I first met is still there. He still exhibits traits toward women that most men don’t possess. On the other hand, it saddens me a little to see the playful side of you has been diminished (although I’ve seen signs lately that it’s finding its way back).
Something has happened along the way to harden him and kill off his joy of life/sex. I'm hoping that with the help of a C, he can rediscover those joys.
Quote: Poe, Just curious--what do you mean by a monthly cycle? I mean one day or night I dream or wake up thinking about it, then I know my body needs it. Now come complications, is this the middle of the week, what is she feeling like. Do I think I can get some, or do just visit the bathroom. Let me preface the once a month, actually it is approximately once a week, and depending upon circumstances I would just go to the bathroom and take care of my need. My dh is the same as Granite's. He waits til I am on the verge of being furious to kick it in gear. The word, hug the bear come to mind. Doesn't make me feel real desired, but it does illuminate the fact that he is deathly afraid of my temper, lol. Have you read mars/Venus, it explains a lot the percieved actions.
Quote: Also, what was it about her increased libido that made yours disappear?
When she mentioned her girlfriend, going 2 and half hours, kinda makes you feel inadequate. So why bother, she is not satified with my performance why bother. I let you know a secret, we need only a minute, the rest we do for you.
Quote: Thank you so much for your thoughts; it is so helpful to me in my own marriage. I wanted to add something else, when I was not feeling up to it, and she initated and I rejected her, and she rolled over and cried. I felt so hopeless, and did not what to do. So I did nothing. Even more stupid move, I told her if she wanted to bubble go so where else.
She cried a lot, not just sex, you kinda get tired of it. Things I did not realize at the time is I was not doing active listening and validating. I would be in my fixer mode and waiting till I could tell her how to fix it. Thats something I learned from M/V.
Quote: Yes. He'd been married and divorced 3 times before we met up again. And there have been a number of failed non-marriage relationships, too. Kinda makes you wonder
Quote: Makes sense and it could be true. I do make about double the money he does, but he's assured me he has no problems with that. But maybe he just doesn't want to admit this to me, which is why I'm hoping a 3rd party can help sort this all out. Making more than him does bother him, it is a different story when a couple decides or plans for it to be that way. Ie.. house husband stays home with the kids. I always made more the the X, and did at times of unemployment become daddy daycare. Funnny thing as I get older, I have become more maternal/emmotional. Guess I am getting the wrong hormones.
Quote: As I'd mentioned before H is a very good man. I think he has demons he needs to shed in order for us to go forward with a complete marriage Actually, I think he has a very low self esteem, you have to be, from what he said about not deserving your love.
One thing, my parents D when I was 5, and I am never sure I open up after that.
Also, we were married for 26 years, and she said 1 year after we seperated the she was unhappy for 10 years. So you can say I was clueless.
Quote: As I'd mentioned before H is a very good man. I think he has demons he needs to shed in order for us to go forward with a complete marriage Actually, I think he has a very low self esteem, you have to be, from what he said about not deserving your love.
I think you are 100% correct. I've thought this all along. I think something happened or was said to him, maybe repeatedly, that has caused him to feel undeserving of any attention, etc. shown to him. I've heard him say it's very hard for him to accept that I love him the way he is. That is so sad.
I also think he may be afraid of his own sexuality. He uses discipline and self-control to keep his sexual urges suppressed. Has even admitted as much in the past. I remember one day telling him that when he shows affection in public it gets me all flustered—hot and bothered. He admitted it did the same for him, but he kept it under control. When I asked why, he didn’t have an answer. Then I remember getting angry at the thought he was withholding sex from me, in effect using it as a means of controlling. I think the first ex-wife may have made comments to him that led him to withdraw and 'beat down' any urges that came along.
Lest anyone get the idea he is not affectionate, he is. *Until* we get to the bedroom door. Then it turns off. Even on our wedding day. I waited 2 weeks for my 'wedding night.' But if we're out and around, he wants to hold my hand, pat my butt or sneak a kiss. I'm getting such mixed signals I don't know what to believe.
My folks were married for over 50 wonderful years. And his folks were married until the day his mom passed away in '95, so longevity is there. I recently learned that the reason he broke it off 34 yrs ago was that he'd overheard his mom telling his dad that she was going to 'get me into trouble with the city/college police.' At that time, he was 17 and I was almost 21. H said that in order to keep me safe, he felt breaking off was better, but that he never stopped loving me. Evidently right after that he became a real hellion for his folks. Getting into trouble, etc. Who knows what effect this had on his future life choices. I never tried to make contact with him because I didn’t want to come between him and his family. He told me the biggest regret in his whole life was not doing everything he could to find me again when he turned 18.
Right now I'm looking forward to being able to talk this all out with a C and I hope my H is able to resolve these past issues.
In his heart, he *is* the same good man I met 34 yrs ago. Life and circumstances have wreaked havoc on him. I do hope that one day soon I can see the 'laugh' sparkle return to his eyes and that he will again love himself and life.
H & I have first meeting with therapist tomorrow afternoon. Neither of us has ever done this before. What typically goes on during the first appointment?
I ended up crying on our wedding night...then he finally initiated something. We had gotten a room at a great B&B in the foothills outside of where we live. I really don't think I can ever forget that he didn't even want me on our wedding night.
Quote: I ended up crying on our wedding night...then he finally initiated something. We had gotten a room at a great B&B in the foothills outside of where we live. I really don't think I can ever forget that he didn't even want me on our wedding night.
Oh, CO, I hear ya. What a lousy feeling, huh? Here we are, all dolled up to the nines and fresh from pledging our lives and love to each other, looking forward to a nice night of lovemaking. And nothing.
I was so hurt I couldn't even cry. I think I just laid awake most of the night. Of course, in my naivete(?) I thought "He'd make sure tonight would be THE night." Boy, was I wrong and for 2 weeks after that, too.
Thanks, Jiji. I'm nervous. There's something about opening up your personal life to a complete stranger that's a bit daunting. I have a tendency to get tongue-tied when I have to 'explain' things, so I wrote up a few sentences on a piece of paper to take with me. Is that dumb?
That is so sad.