Having raised three cats myself...I'm probably not the best person to respond, but I DID teach Child Psychology a while back and this dynamic is NOT helpful...as if you didn't already know that!
Is there ANY way your H might read one of the books you've read? To get a different perspective, a different source so to speak?
I think you had a great insight when you pointed out that H might be "projecting" some of his own issues onto your Son. I don't think HE'D see this or agree right now, as it's very likely an unconscious mechanism.
But he should at least understand that parents MUST show consistency and a unified front to the children. The details can be worked out (hopefully!) between the two of you, but enforced as a team.
Aw heck, you KNOW all of this...so how do you get your H on board?
The strange thing is when I was reading The Manipulative Child I kept thinking "Aha! so that's where H's parents went wrong". He is reading it now. We had a really big row about it. Basically he was upset with me about wanting to use the methods which as far as he could see were overbearing and my insistence that he read the book before criticising. I know I was wrong for going ahead and implementing the program without discussing it first with him and I apologised loads of times about that. I also told him that if he read it through then he had the right of veto, no more argument.
Anyway he came out with something the other day which made me think - OK he's reading it and now he is taking some of the ideas on board.
Like you say Nik it is parenting 101 to present a united front. Whenever I point out to H that we need to back each other up he just says I mean I want him to fall in line with doing it my way. (Where is the tearing hair out emoticon!). If I try to back him up by saying “do what Daddy says” he looks daggers at me like I am interfering.
He won’t hear a word said about how his parents brought him up, even though he is quite happy to imply that my folks did a rotten job. My parents focused on themselves and lived their lives and we were along for the ride. They fed us, clothed us, educated us and took us to church. Mum provided the warmth and affection, Dad provided the serious discipline (as well as the intellectual and physical challenges). Mum and Dad had huge rows all the time but stuck it out nonetheless. I will not say my upbringing was perfect and certainly at the time I had a few problems with it, but now I feel you can only judge by results. My emotional life is well balanced, I am a basically happy, optimistic and self-motivated person. I have been told this many times by others as well as feeling it for myself. As far as I can make out, H’s parents focused on the kids rather than themselves, never smacked, allowed the kids to go off on 3 day sulks and only ever had their own rows in private. H to me seems like a sulky prima donna who depends on the approval of others to make him happy. I DO NOT want that for my kids. And I feel that pandering to the kids will make them unable to depend on themselves.
I love my kids, we have fun, we play, we have cuddles etc. I am not in favour of making home like boot camp, I just want there to be rules and for the rules to be stuck to. So many times H has looked at me in a frustrated way because I am trying get one of the kids to stick to a rule and he is looking like “we haven’t got time for this, just leave it for now”. Whereas I am thinking a rule is a rule and if you put the effort in now it will be second nature later.
Sigh!
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
He's doing a whole series on Parenting 101!!! LOL!
You think YOU'RE being tough on the kids? He had one mom on there today with a hellion 4 year old who will wet his pants on purpose to get out of a time out in the corner!!!!
Dr. Phil's suggestion? Not only does his time out start again with any move or word the kid says, but if pees, he stands there in it and THEN he gets to wear those pants for the rest of the day!!!
The mom was mortified...but Dr.Phil quite rightly pointed out that the kid would likely NEVER do that again!
He said that a kid needs to know with 100% certainty what the outcome will be for a given misbehaviour...and the punishment (removal of privileges etc.) MUST be consistent.
Made a whole lot of sense to get rid of the hidden reinforcements kids get out of acting up...like playing mom off of dad...like "pushing buttons"...like getting you angry...
Seems like these would be negatives, but many times what grownups think is punishment (yelling for eg) is actually much coveted attention!
Okay enough from the crazy lady with the cats...one of whom is seriously neurotic!!!
LOL, I am with Dr Phil on that one! The thing which makes me know it is working with my son (also 4) is that he will go through the entire repetoire of my buttons including claiming to feel sick to try and get out of time out. The only way to make it work is to face him down and let him do WHAT HE LIKES to try and get round it but not budge until he is quiet for 15-20 secs. The more I have done this the quicker he has become at just settling down "doing his time" and getting on with life.
Now if only we could train H's the same way
Fram
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
just scanning over your last few posts and notice somewhat of a theme...
the kiddos...
they can be buggers can't they!? (mine too as you know)
the theme I'm noticing is that you are trying to change some of the ways you deal with the kids to ensure a happy, healthy, productive home environment. Kids are a struggle and that struggle is adding to the r issue?
one comment you made realy jumped out at me... "h gave me a look like he was leaving the kids with a child abuser"
ok, fran..do you feel like you are being too tough on the kids? do you doubt yourself?
don't make assumptions about what h is thinking (I know, I do the same thing when it comes to the kids) or well if you have to make assumptions why not assume he's thinking..."my god I'm so lucky I get to leave while she puts up with this insanity"
Kids will be kids, I know that. In fact sometimes I think H is a lot less patient with them than I am. We did have a long talk about it which turned into a heated discussion but we worked it out in the end. I got very upset with him that he was worried about what I might be doing to S, in the end I just had to say - I am his mother, I love him more than I can say and I would never do anything to harm him. Basically what H saw and what he didn't like was S reactions not my actions. My actions were firm but gentle, S was the one getting violent. I was being kicked, punched, bit etc and I was not reacting to it. S has settled down a lot since I have started doing this discipline method. What it consists in is keeping the child still for a period of time until they have calmed down and then redirecting them on to something more productive than the behaviour you dislike. The nub of it is that you do it very consistently so EVERY time they step out of line in a particular way they get the treatment. They quickly learn not to do it anymore. Also you keep control of your tongue and your emotions so there is no emotional baggage to it. What H doesn't get is that I have to get S to do stuff he might not feel like doing (e.g. go to pre-school, go to the supermarket) and I have to get things done to a timetable. When he takes a turn minding the kids he has no timetable and the only stuff to do is whatever they want to do, so he is able to manage the kids gently and without conflict because he is not thinking if we don't get dressed and into the car NOW we will not get to the supermarket in time and there will be nothing to eat in the house! I was just sick and tired of every day being one long battle between me and S (DD is little enough that I just pick her up and stuff her into her clothes/the car seat). It is beginning to turn around now and it is no longer such a battle. I think H can see that, he has not mentioned it since.
Yuk, yuk, yuk. I wish he just would have trusted me. I trust him to do his job (even though sometimes I can think of better ways he could be handling stuff). He really was seriously worried LL and that annoyed the crap out of me.
Anyway they are back. See ya
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Yuk, yuk, yuk. I wish he just would have trusted me. I trust him to do his job (even though sometimes I can think of better ways he could be handling stuff). He really was seriously worried LL and that annoyed the crap out of me.
Anyway they are back. See ya
Fran
can we look at this as he did in the end trust you? after all he gave a look and nothing more right? if he were honestly sincerely worried that his children were in danger wouldn't he say something or try to intervene?
I know there are plenty of times when h is dealing with son and not getting the best results and therefore getting frustrated leaving them both frustrated I so want to open my mouth and offer a suggestion (and in the past would have) but most often I leave it for h to deal with and most often he does the same with me.
it annoyed you that he was worried? why? are you assuming it was worry instead of "even though I can think of better ways he could be handling stuff"?
Sorry LL, I probably haven't explained it clearly and in the order that everything happened. Yes he was giving me looks but he also did speak to me about it. He made it clear that he was unhappy about what he thought I was doing and said things like "I never see you and S having fun together", "You are always on his case" etc. That was what really upset me cause me and S are really close and we do have loads of fun together. If anyone is the love of my life then it is S. H was making me out to be a really wicked mother who doesn't care about my son and is just angry all the time. This is soooo far from true, really far from true. That is what made me say I wondered if H was projecting some of his own issues with me into this. Whether he found my (appropriate parent-child) controlling of our son too reminiscent of my inappropriate (previous) controlling of him.
There is a difference between the way I have to be with the kids and the way H can get away with being with them. If I was like him then nothing would get done, the house would be wrecked and my kids would be in total control. He can get away with being relaxed with them because he basically only sees them on Sunday and for about an hour 2 nights a week. Even though he is home with us that is all he sees of them. I have them the rest of the time and I have to run the show. It was his disapproval of me disciplining S in a way that I felt was actually BETTER than Smacking Yelling Withdrawal of priveleges Guilt trips
Not just the fact that he disapproved of the method, but that he threw in all kinds of total crap to back up his case that just isn't true. He was on a downer for about 3 days before I got him to open up and he explained that he hated leaving the house because of what he thought I was doing. I mean, my god, what kind of an imagination has this man got! Plus why couldn't he listen while I explained and have some faith in me. The worst of what he saw was TOTALLY S having a tantrum with me for trying to control what he did. The boundaries had got too lax and he had to be brought back into line, he did not enjoy that process (neither did I), but it had to happen and it did happen and no harm done. Now even H is impressed at what a well behaved and happy boy S is being- although he won't admit that it might be due to me reimposing proper discipline.
hmmmmmm!
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
