Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers WAW and 4 kids

Okay....here we go. (The other post was "short" compared to this one, so beware.)



You probably realize now that this was the "true" beginning of the downfall of your R. If you read Michelle's WAW symptoms, you'll see where the W complains about being unhappy but the H doesn't "listen" or he doesn't do anything about it. One H said that he didn't realize his W was "that" unhappy! That just burnt my toast! I wanted to scream at him.



Unfortunately, by the time the couple gets to MC, the W has, usually, emotionally divorced her H and she feels it is too late. That is the same reason that Retrouvaille did not work for her.



Does this mean that you had been after her to confess her involvement with somebody else? You used the word in a plural sense, so I take it you asked several times about another man. Do you remember what it was that made you suspicious? Guess it doesn't matter. I just wondered what finally got your attention.



Were you "trying" to catch her or was it an accident?

Before I go any farther, let me say that none of the "trouble" is about OM. I know "you" think it is, but the trouble was there before OM came on the scene. He is the result of the trouble. You are making him an "issue" and he will become a larger issue if you do not apply the DB principles correctly in appropriate time. That is what I hope we can help you with here on the board.



I could talk for days on just this one paragraph, but maybe it would be better if you asked any questions about her reactions. Everything she has done is very, very typical! Perhaps you have been given enough information that it isn't necessary for me to say anything more about it. But, I will add this, in case......never contact the OM. It will make things much worse. He is not your friend and he will not do anything to "help" the situation. As you saw, he will report to her whatever is said or done and it adds fuel to the fire.

It is great that you have been working on self-improvements. However, don't expect her to be impressed. You probably wanted her to notice your changes, but if she has.....at this time in the stitch, she thinks it will not last.....so she's not taking those improvements seriously. She "thinks" it is a ploy to get her back with you and that you will not stick with the changes once she rededicates herself to the M. That is why we say that it must be for the LBH and not to "get the WAW back".



Depending on how you were raised and the influence you had in what the "deal breakers" were in the M. I grew up thinking that an A was the deal breaker of all time! However, it does not have to be the deal breaker, and you can maintain your self-respect if you decide you want to be this new, strong man (not that you weren't) and don't allow the stitch to take it away.



I know it is, and that is why you need to know what to do every day and why you need to come here each time you have a chance. This will be your support group. Don't discuss this EA with other friends or family members b/c they will take "sides" and it causes more stress and complications. You are doing the right thing in reaching out to people here.



She is angry! B/c you waited until she was emotionally "done" before you decided to get off your butt and do something. (Remember, I'm thinking like she's thinking.)

Her feelings and "your" emotions is in high gear. You were scared the first time you found out about the EA. The second time, your ego took a beating. So, it's the emotions that will have to be watched closely or it will tear you apart.



You probably know by now never to give her an ultimatum! Unless you are prepared to back up what you tell her......don't go there. You will either resort to doing something you never intended and thought this would be a technique that would pressure her into doing what "you" wanted her to do..........or you will have to go back on what you said in the ultimatum, which will hurt your respect.



Now you are beginning to see. No, you cannot control her and that is very tough for a lot of H's to accept. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way....b/c I was taught in very old fashion, traditional ways of the roles each partner has. So, I think I understand how that is frustrating for a H.



But being in the same house is the greatest opportunity for reconciliation. If I had ever left my home/husband.......I don't think I would have returned. Pride has a lot to do with people's decisions and I know that I have too much.....and I wouldn't be surprised if you did too. Therefore, be careful what you say & do. You are doing the right thing by backing up and giving her space and time. Leave her alone, but don't totally ignore her by being "cold" toward her in actions or attitude. Married people "know" each other's attitude better than anyone in the world. We can't fool our S too much. I truly believe u]attitude[/u] is the key to making this work.



Do you still believe that now?

I am so glad that you gave up the snooping and trying to "police" her b/c it won't stop her from contacting OM. I know that it only caused me to become more sneaky and take more risks at my job, etc. Just don't allow her to contact him in your presence b/c that is showing huge disrespect and you "can" control that. That is where you need to draw a boundary and tell her that you do not know how long you can stay in the same house with anyone who would show that kind of disrespect. (Wording is everything!....Don't tell her she "can't" do something b/c she'll show you that she can.)



Do not show her any physical affection....period!! If she makes the first move to show you affection, then you can very carefully respond (a tiny bit), but don't over-do b/c she would not be ready! I can promise you that any physical affection is about the last thing she could handle at this moment. The pressure for her is too unbearable. I know this is hard to hear and I know you are under terrible pressure also. But hers is a different type and as I said, I am telling you how "she" is feeling as a WAW. I know this is not the type of R you want and you are ready for a "new" R and you are ready to get working! But, she isn't! It is the last thing she wants right now. She's ready for a D! That is what you must remind yourself of....everytime you want to hug her. She wants a D, not a hug.

You are blaming the OM for her being cold and not wanting affection. That is true to a great degree, but it is not the entire reason. Remember, the "trouble" was there before OM arrived. However, her fantasy is going to be a big issue now. She will have a fantasy about the OM that he or no other man could possibly live up to. It will be the fantasy that has her swept off her feet. But she can't see it. She thinks it is the OM. That is what she will have to work through. It takes a long time, usually. If she is valuable enough to you.....then you will stick it out and be the man you need to be and will either become so attractive to her that you will outshine the OM and reconcile......or you will be able to move on without her (if she makes those decisions).



Don't reduce the size of the problem by saying EA "only" b/c EA's are very serious. They are serious due to her fantasy. This may sound silly to you, I don't know.....but I can assure you that a fantasy to a woman is not just a "dream".



Yes, she knows. She is playing on words here. She will admit it later. But please don't argue with her b/c it makes you the enemy in her eyes.



I understand that "you" think this will matter to her b/c of who and what she used to be......but trust me, she is NOT that woman any longer and she WILL chose OM over family--and they can disown her all day long and it won't stop her. They are tying to "control" her also, and it will not work! Oh, and the fact that they are supportive of you?......only makes her more angry. It would be to your best interest if they did not say anything to her about "you" b/c it will make her worse. I know you don't understand it. It is all part of her WAW rebellion. It is part of her symptoms.

The friends that do not support her?......She will finally drop them and find somebody new who does support her. Dropping old friends and finding new ones is part of the scene of a WAW.

Her feelings for the kids are "real" and she is tormented over it. However, it may not be what will keep her from doing something stupid. Let's pray she will not go there. A mother's love for her children is very powerful, but this "crises" she has is beyond anything she knows how to handle--and she can't see the truth as it is. (You can see the truth, but she can't.) She will be in a "fog" and will try to justify her feelings and her actions and will finally believe that the children will be better off with whatever decision she makes. I pray it won't go that far.

I love your "marching orders".... They are great! There is only one I want to say anything about.



Okay.....it is fine for "you" to remember your vows and all that stuff about the rings, etc. But, don't expect her to. Don't say a word about vows, rings, wedding pictures, nothing like that....or you will make matters much, much worse. It has the "opposite" effect that you hope--when making any statements regarding this subject. Don't bring up any memories about the wedding or honeymoon. Don't even say anything about the "kid's sake". This sounds terrible, but I can tell you that she will resent you like you couldn't believe! It truly makes the WAW much worse in all of her symptoms.



It is great if that is what motivates "you", but it won't do it for her. Just bear that in mind.



This is where a lot of men really get hung up. This one issue is their downfall. Yes, you want that physical affection worse now than ever before....partly b/c of the situation you are in and knowing her heart doesn't belong to you right now. It makes you feel desparate. The point is not to show her you are feeling that way......and if you don't get a grip, you will show it. She'll see you in a "deparate" light--and it is NOT attractive. So....remember, she wants a divorce....not affection.

I don't get it, why LBH's get this idea that their WAW should suddenly start showing them affection--and they talk and talk about it (not that you have, but just saying that some others do) and it makes no sense that she would be affectionate if she wants a divorce.



But you see, she looks at it like.....you had a chance but you didn't get off your butt and do anything about it until the OM showed up. Do you see that? Be honest. Did you do "ANYTHING" until you found out about him? According to your own posts, you didn't. That is what she's angry about. You waited until she was through, empty, dried up, emotionally dead on the inside and then---she found somebody who would pay attention to her. THEN you woke up and decided that you better put forth a little effort into this MR. Again...I'm saying what she is thinking. Don't want it to sound like I am being mean to you, but trying to get you to see from her POV as best I can.

I better shut this post down and then I'll start another one. Hope you don't mind me doing this. I don't pretend to know about all this stuff, but I have been mentally where your W is at right now and I hope I can help you see it.


Sandi

Sandi - thanks for your help - this is great and much appreciated. Even though I feel like I have a lot of information, some times it helps to get a reality check.

Here are some responses:




Yes I totally understand this now and have told her many many times that I was an idiot for not doing anything earlier! I told her I kind of lost myself in my own oblivion (career, other activities, kids, etc).




Yep, totally agree here too.




Yes I had suspected something for a few months based upon her increased 'distance' and the fact that she was spending lots of time on phone and hiding stuff that she never would before. Therefore I had been asking her repeatedly what was going on.






I tried, but it only took one day to catch her so I didn't do it very long.




I recognize this also and have acknowledged this to her as well. This is one of the reasons I give her for being able to forgive what she has done, because both of us contributed to a bad marriage that led her to this place, although she did ultimately make the choice on her own.



Lately I have been trying to use the fact that I know I can't control her behavior to not even ask about the guy or bring it up. I know it doesn't help to talk about him.




Great advice - I will keep this top-of-mind.



Now you are beginning to see. No, you cannot control her and that is very tough for a lot of H's to accept. I don't mean that in a sarcastic way....b/c I was taught in very old fashion, traditional ways of the roles each partner has. So, I think I understand how that is frustrating for a H.




While I don't believe the OM is the source of our problems, I view it as a huge barrier to her turning around her attitude toward me or the M. Even with the OM gone it might not happen, but I know with OM in the picture it will never happen it seems. This has been my biggest issue with the whole thing all along. I have viewed it as this initial, insurmountable barrier that prevented all hope about the M. I have reacted by trying to 'bully' her into stopping it with some success but overall we still aren't in good shape as far as M is concerned (it is worse - now she sleeps in another room and didn't before!). Initially I was trying to prove it existed because she wouldn't admit it and I figured we had to acknowledge this problem in order to deal with it.



I had been doing things like hugging her goodnight and things like that but she complained about it, which makes sense given what you are saying! I eventually backed off of that also.




More great advice - I need to remember this.




All so true - she is angry at me for 'turning her family against her' and the fact that her image has been tarnished with them. I have an agreement with her family that we won't bug her about this stuff, although my MIL laid into her recently. Their obvious concern is for our kids and that she shoudln't trade her 'happiness' for the happiness of 5 others.




So true - she has less contact with old friends and now confides daily in a divorced friend who has been happily remarried for 10 years. They used to talk every couple of months (she lives 2 hours away) but now they talk every day. She gets all kinds of advice from her, not much of it is good for M.





It seems so bizzarre - I guess its because these are the things that she is 'fighting against' and trying to convince herself that they don't matter (or she already has but doesn't want to rethink the decision).





No no you are totally correct. She has told me this many times herself. She says things like "why didn't you do xxxxx over the past 10 years?" and "if you didn't do it before don't do it now!"



Thanks for yoru time Sandi - your help is invaluable. BTW - how old were you when you had your A and went through your crisis? I can research on your old threads also.

Here is an update on the sitch - over the past 2 weekends we have spent time apart. She left town both weekends with different children. First she went on a weekend trip with MIL/SIL and S10 and S12. Then she went on another trip the following weekend with D15. During these times away we had minimal contact. In fact she never called me directly - I called her a few times to see what was going on with her and kids and if she made calls it was directly to our kids. She seemed like she was trying out what it would be like if we were D and had to leave kids with the other spouse without talking to them.

When she got home for whatever reason things were tense this week. We had a couple of arguments over R which I had been doing a good job of avoiding. I think having her in the other room gets to me on some occasions and creates a stressful undercurrent around the house in in the R.

The big fight last night was that I had been trying to do some research into the criminal record of OM in case she leaves and I want to file a restraining order to prevent contact between OM and my kids and she found out by reading my email. She was pretty angry, and said the kids can be around whomever she decides to be with, etc etc. I told her that I hoped it wouldn't go that far.

I later told her that since we have both done things that we need to forgive why not wipe the slate clean and start over? She has lots of resentment over my past behavior and lack of trying to work on M, and I have resentment over the EA. It seems so simple but not to a WAW I Realize!

Well, ready for more?

These are some quotes you made on other people's threads.



If the LBH is suspicious and needs to find out if there is an OP, I can understand that, but at the same time....when the snooping starts, it is hard to stop (based on what other LBS have shared). I would think that it is torment to read messages from WAW to OP. You said that it made you realize you didn't want to settle for being treated this way......are you saying that finding out she had OM made you realize that? I believe that is really sad that it took such a drastic ordeal for you to see that you needed to change. I don't think it was a matter of you not being "treated that way" as much as "that point in time" was when you started the self improvements.



I don't think I agree. She may temporarily appear to stop the EA, but if she's a true WAW, and especially if she's in MLC..... then I have doubts that the "control" the family is trying to use to "pressure" her will work. She will simply resort to being more "secretive".



I AGREE 100%. But it has to be done in the right way and very few LBH's "get it" for quite some time. I hope you can "get it" and it will be successful. I think you are at least seeing the phase where you've "been" and where you are "now". That is good that you can do that.



"Expose or not to expose" has been an ongoing subject on the board. I have very personal feelings as a former WAW.....but it took me reading all of Puppy's old thread before I could see from his POV. In his case, yes--I think he needed to do what he did. But not in all cases do I think exposure should be done. In my case, it would have been the end of everything. I'm not kidding one bit. I am not sure what drastic actions I would have done. But, I am glad that it never happened. I do not believe that exposure should be done to "pressure" the WAW to be good and stop the EA. That is "shame" or "control" and I do not think most WAW's would want to fall into the arms of a man that EXPOSED her to the world. Her family and friends ARE her world. She is "still" his wife and he should try to protect her as long as he can. Maybe this sounds rather ironic to a LBH, but even a WW needs protection when she is in a crises. I do not see exposure as protection! I think that a man and wife should keep private things in their R....private--as long as possible--and use the exposure as a last resort (such as in Puppy's case). As I said, there are some cases where it has to be done. I just feel that some LBH's are too quick in doing the exposure as a "control" method.



You shamed her before her world and she felt a terrible guilt (and she should have), however......it will not stop her! It slowed her down b/c of the shame, but I don't think the exposure will stop her. What does she have to lose now? If I had been exposed, the first thing I would have done was leave town and go straight to the OM. When that didn't work out.....I hate to think what I might have done--in the frame of mind I was in at the time.



Yeah, I'm sad your kids know, too! She won't win the "Mother of the Year" award, will she? Does that make you feel better? See, I could really beat a LBH up when he does something like this b/c I feel that it is more revenge than anything else, and even though she is wrong to get emotionally involved with another man......I don't think you did the right thing by not protecting your wife while she is in this state of mind. Her R with her children may be never be the same after this. I know.....you are thinking that "she" ruined it...not you. Again, it is how a person sees it, and I see it from the POV of a WAW......and that is what "she" is. She says that she is there for "the kids".....and I say that they are the only ones she feels she has a reason to stay. As a mother, I think I know how badly it hurts her for her children to know about her EA. I pray it does not backfire on you.



You sound as if you are whining--as only a LBH can do. You were expecting her to want to sleep with the man who exposed her EA to her world?? Really! This is the point I was trying to make. You LBH's amaze me! Of course she is trying to be discreet. Doesn't that tell you that she "cares" what the kids think? You still don't "get it". She is in a crises mode and you have not protected her. What would you do if she had a serious mental problem? Would you protect her then? Maybe that is not the best illustration in the world, but I'm trying to get you to see that she is not her "normal" self.



Of course there will be "arguments"....if you discuss the OM! You certainly are not going to agree about him! Do not talk about OM. If she tries to mention his name or refer to him....tell her you are not prepared to discuss him right now....and then leave the room or whatever to stop the discussion. The reason is--that both of you are not in the "right place" emotionally and it will tear you apart. Yes, at some point it will be discussed, but you can wait until the time is right. You will know when it is right, and it won't be when you are mad.



It usually is a long road. I think I may have been the exception, but mine was not that short, either. It takes a lot of love and strength. I did not feel much of either--and before it was over, I think my H just about gave up hope......but that was when he finally let go and backed away to give me space and time to work it out. And.....I did.



So, do you not take any responsibility in the fact that she's sleeping in another room? You think it all has to do with the fact she can't promise never to contact OM? I think you are deceiving yourself. Stop blaming "everything" on OM. Yes, a GREAT deal has to do with her confused feelings in this MLC (if she is in one) and her fantasy of OM........but you have to accept your breakdown in the M.



You see, "if" she had been flaunting the EA.....then I may have agreed about the exposure. But, to a degree, I think she is in denial about her EA b/c of all the excuses she gives and the fact that she was not flaunting it. If she had been.....then you would have had a horrible problem for sure!



This is just part of a sentence, but I'm trying to save space You see, it is much easier in the WAW's mind to start an entire "new" R than to stay and work on the old R that is "dead".



Very much so.



The fact that she has done nothing about filing for a D should tell you something! Stop pushing the issue. Just you thinking about it sends out signals to her. You almost sound impatient and want her to go on and get it over with. She picks up on that attitude. Yes, let her make the next move. Do nothing about filing......leave "everything" to her about a divorce. The only thing is to make sure you and the kids are "protected" if she gets really crazy. Know what I mean? Don't think I'm telling you to stick your head in the sand....I'm saying to make her have to do the decision making and the going to the lawyer and filing, etc. Don't do her any favors by being the "first" to make a step toward the courtroom.



But don't you see, it almost sounds as if "now" you can blame the other guy with the break-up of the R with your W. Stop doing that!! You don't get off scott free. The trouble was there before the OM. I keep saying that b/c I want you to get that. It is too easy to blame somebody else for the fault. LBH's almost get to sounding as if they are near "perfect" when they start blaming the W for her A and the OM for the breakdown of the M. Hummmmmmm

Well, I may have run you off after all of this! Believe it or not....I have never left several posts in a row like I have done this evening. But now I have made a dent (lol) and maybe...maybe I won't be as long winded next time....but don't promise.

I talk very plain to LBH's b/c I care.....and I hope you know that. If I didn't care about you and your W....I would not have spent my evening on this computer with your stitch. I do pray that you can endure this horrible crises that both of you are going through. I know it seems awful unfair to you, but I hope you will also believe me when I say that she is not happy and she's going through something she doesn't understand. Her mind is in a turmoil and she's fogged out. I'm afraid it may get worse, so I hope you are in it for the long haul. We are here to support you as long as you will listen and try to understand. There are many other LBH's here on the board, and all of you can talk to each other and feel each other's pain.....but there aren't too many of us WAW's here to tell you just how it "really" is.

Take care,
Sandi

BTW, I didn't see your reply to my other post b/c I was busy typing my next one..... So.....I may be saying something you had mentioned before I had time to read it. Anyway.....we'll get there...eventually (lol). Thanks for listening.


Sandi

You are pushing her right into the arms of the OM. You must stop this before it is too late!

Sandi - the feedback from a former almost-WAW is invaluable. Thank you so much for your time. I know full well that I bear half the responsibility for the state of our M and have told her so.




I agree with all of this. I also think it is sad and tragic that it took an OM to get me to wake up and I have told her that. Also, you are correct that once snooping starts it is hard to stop. However, I feel like I have really turned a corner on this front over the past few weeks after realizing I can't control her. I haven't snooped in a few weeks after doing it for several months. I get the urge, but I know that nothing productive will come of it now that I know what is basically going on! The things I heard the first time I snooped were very impactful and hurtful. She told the OM how she couldn't stand me and was just here for the kids, called him 'babe' and other affectionate things, etc etc. It is what made me really wake up and I know it is sad that it had to come to that. My IC told me that both of us have been avoiders, and when I would hear complaints from her I would sweep it under the rug, but what I heard from my snooping made me really face reality and not be able to deny her true feelings (IC pointed this out to me) about me and the M.





Out of all the things I have done, this seems to be the biggest wedge between us right now. Her anger over this surpasses everythign else and it is the one thing I should have handled differently. I made the decisions to communicate all this in the first 24 hours after finding out the truth. My MIL had been suspecting somethign all along as well so she was the first one I confided in.


Y

Just so you know, the kids overheard accidentally. I would never have exposed them to this intentionally. After my D15 overheard us talking about it we both felt sick about it and I know W was devastated. She got help from her IC on how to discuss it with the kids and she did.






Yes I am whining. I think I make myself the victim in my mind because she is having the EA, and then never consider her own personal sitch outside of the fact that she is addicted to her EA. It can cloud the thinking.



I hope I can have the same outcome. I am willing to wait but I need to create the time for all this to sort itself out and not push her away.



I am starting to see this from a different light - thanks. I see her in the other room and I get angry due to OM. Maybe now I can be more at peace given that I have driven her there with my behavior recently also. It is easy to focus on the lies and deceit over her denials of interactions with the OM, but at the same time there are other facets to the situation. There is a start contrast in the feedback you get - set firm boundaries/don't take any crap vs. be sympathetic because she is in a crisis. I have been leaning towards the former, but also see that I need to consider the latter as well given some of the things that have transpired.





I know you are right. I have this big mental block about the OM however - see my previous reply-post where I mentioned that it creates a huge barrier to working on the R, so I almost think that getting rid of OM is an emergency or something. The OM has definitely receded, but he isn't gone, and that scares me more than anything and drives a lot of my behavior. As far as the trouble being there before OM I understand that and my W and I have this ongoing argument about this - I say OM is preventing R, and she says that M was bad before OM and OM had noting to do with her desire to R, and on it goes! I finally have given up this argument because it goes in circles and said that maybe we should discuss it at a MC session (we don't go as a couple currently)??




Thanks - your advice has really hit the spot tonight - it has been a rough 24 hours for us and I have some new things to think about now! Advice from a WAW will never run me off - I will consume all of it and try to put it to use.







The advice you give is unlike any other I have received and I thank you for it. It is going to help me to 'do something different' - the situation I am in isn't great but obviously could be worse given the other stories I read here. Your feedback will help me reconsider what I have been doing and try to do something different.

Yes I wish this hadn't occurred. She figured it out by reading my email otherwise she wouldn't have known. I was only going to tell her about this if she decided to leave so it is unfortunate that she found out.

Sandi - one other thing you could probably provide interesting feedback on is that I have a strong suspicion that my wife is dead set on D for another reason, due to the fact that she has a lot of trouble facing her own wrongdoing or ever admitting fault. FAcing the fact that she had/has the EA is very painful for her and she feels very guilty.

I feel like since she had the EA and was exposed, she feels like D is inevitable because R would mean that the M wasn't bad enough for her to have the EA. She wants to prove the justification for the EA was the bad M to absolve herself of blame, and getting a D would go a long way towards proving it.

It is almost like R would mean admitting she was wrong so she will run from that possibility too.

Sound crazy?

Yes, it sounds "crazy" b/c all of it is crazy in many ways and that's why it is so hard to know what to do in each day as it comes.



When I read a thread that is mostly LBH's talking to each other.....I can't deny that at times it stings. Like when I hear how all WAW's are liars and cheaters. I won't say that it is not the truth.....but never-the-less it hurts to hear how brutal some can get and as I said before, the H's get so sympathetic with each other until the part where "they" messed up gets lost in their thread. I never spoke a lie to my H. However, I lied and I cheated by sneaking my contacts and by having the EA with OM. In that respect....yes, all WAS are liars & cheaters. But, I can't deny that it hurts when I read over and over.....in bold letters...ALL WAW's LIE AND CHEAT! I almost feel as if I need to go throw myself in the trash. Several men have started passing that along on their threads (I think My friend, Puppy, started that.... :), and he's correct and he has a reason to feel like he does.) I understand, and LBH's have a hard time accepting what the W is doing and so I see Pup's reasoning behind it. I am not arguring that point. At times, I think men who are newcomers jump on that bandwagon and make decions to expose too quickly and then find out they acted in haste. As you said, you had done part of that within 24 hours after discovering the EA. That was hurt and revenge you were acting out of.....not DB principles. I don't think exposure is in the DB book, but that is a POV from some people here on the board.

Neither am I here to try to confuse you or to cause you to be sympathetic toward WAW's. I only wish to give you a POV from the WAW's perspective. Just as you are so hurt that you can't think straight, she is so "fogged out" that she can't think, either. Remember, she is confused and hurt also. This "state" that she is in is not a normal place for her and you can tell that by the way she talks, acts, & her attitude.....everything tells you that she is not herself, right? Also, this started some time ago, according to your posts. She was unhappy for quite some time, but after OM came along, it esculated. A lot of that was due to "your" reaction when you discovered it. I do not defend a WAW b/c I think she is "right"! I never, ever do that! An A is wrong, whether it is an A of the heart or physical. However, I know that the general population of LBH's do not have the information about a WAW/MLC and by the time he comes here, he usually has done all the wrong things and is in a bad place in his M. So, I try to tell a LBH what his W is feeling and may be thinking....based on my personal experience.

I do understand why LBH's get all up in the air over OM and how their ego has been hurt. I go get that! But what bothers me is how they quickly seem to forget that the problem was there before OM and now they want to blame the entire stitch on the A. So, I am not making excuses for the WAW and I'm not saying what she did should be over-looked. I want that understood by everyone. I do hope to give enough information that a LBH could have a more equal look at both sides amd therefore be more "balanced" in his actions. There is a time to use strick methods with the WAW. (I do believe in setting boundaries and keeping your self-respect in tact.) However, the H needs to realize why she does some of the things she does and there are times if he tries to be "harsh" with her that it will result in more tragic loss that help. That is what I want to help you prevent, okay? I'm not trying to get you to throw away all the other information you've received.....not at all, but try to have a balanced over-view of the situation. I believe that if she had any other problem where it was causing unusual, erratic behavior or mental disability--that you would have all the compassion in the world for her. I realize this is different from that from a medical POV, and it is the deal breaker in most M's. But, please......please realize that "this" is not the girl you married. This is not your wife that you've known all these years. This is a stranger in your house and you MUST......MUST stop thinking of "how could she do this to me" and think of her as another person instead of the woman you M. I'll tell you another verse to that.......she feels like a stranger to herself. She won't tell you that, but she doesn't understand what's going on--and her mind will deceive and justify itself at what she's doing. This adds to her confussion. At some point this is going to catch up with her and hit her hard. I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown. It was scary b/c I did not know what was happening to me. It was this board that saved my M and saved my sanity.

I keep reminding LBH's all the time to stop thinking of their WAW in "normal" terms. But they keep going back and expecting her to act normally! Then they get all upset when she doesn't. That is why you need to find a balanced ground to stand on and to understand what "dropping the rope" is all about before you make anymore lasting mistakes. As you are seeing, the results of exposing her has not been good. The thing that concerns me when a WAW is exposed of an EA is that they get to thinking what is the point of not going ahead and having a PA b/c her H has told everyone how horrible she is and now everyone thinks the worst about her, (including her own children), so she might as well live up to their poor image. I don't believe an EA should be exposed when it could be dealt with in private by the couple who were having the "trouble" before EA hit. Anyway.....that is done and you can't undo it anymore than she can go back in history and undo her EA with OM. Would be nice, wouldn't it, if we could erase all our mistakes?

I have to go, but maybe I will get a chance later to talk to you about "dropping the rope". I saw you mention it on another thread but I have not gotten around to really talking about that.

Please......please don't try to dig up more dirt on the OM. It only makes her more defensive of him. It is not about "him"......that is not what you get. When you finally get that through your head, you will stop doing this stuff about him. A WAW usually gets involved with a man who is as opposite from her H as he can be. It doesn't matter that he has a criminal record. No, it doesn't.....and nothing you say about him will shock her into "waking up" or make her be a "good girl". The more you say about him, the more she will turn to him. You must stop focusing on OM....period. Focus on what kind of man you were when she fell in love with you. How far have you come from that person in the last few years?

I'll talk to you more later. Hope you have a good day.

Sandi