My W sees things in black and white. You can only love ONE person. I've always seen things in shades of gray.
I am going to go out on a limb and extend this to say that she doesn't know how to "love" her kids AND you...
Forget other man, that was fantasy, not love and zero evidence that she understands what love is or is capable of loving more than one person at a time. "The kids," I would classify as one entity. Her mom and sis, one entity...
I find it really revealing. She feels spread too thin when she tries to love more than one at a time. This also explains her lack of energy expenditure, her not having so many friends etc.
She sounds co-dependent and her idea of love is compulsive attention mentally and physically focused on one entity (the kids)...she has guilt even accepting that she needs to "love" herself.
I think you are helping her as best you can and keep going. I also think she needs C. I am learning quite a bit about myself in this thread. But, I have been able to see how my co-dependence has influenced my behavior and I am changing slowly...your W needs to wake up and she may need to lose in order to do it.
Listen to Coach and all of the experts here. Work hard and see what happens...
Stuck... you mentioned sex and waiting for her to initiate it, I'll tell you that most women like it when men initiate - yes you have to deal with rejection possibly but it does boost their self-esteem when you pursue them.
You mentioned spa treatments and that she didn't like other people touching her so I have to ask because you haven't said it, how many times have you given her massages, foot rubs, etc.
If you want to start with something small, here's an idea: - if you guys happen to be watching some tv on the couch one evening and kids are asleep, tell her you have an idea, walk out of the room, come back with some skin lotion (nothing fancy, just something you would use on your hands for dry skin) and offer her a foot rub and if she asks why, tell her that you're both sitting there anyways watching tv, you're awake and wouldn't mind doing something nice and you wouldn't mind the practice because it's been a "long time" since you've done anything like this. The possibility that she says NO is real but being secure & confident in yourself means taking chances and there is no harm in offering a friendly footrub, it wouldn't be sexual, it would be you just rubbing her feet and making her feel better - my wife tells me that a good foot rub for her is like getting a back rub (I can't see it personally and would never let anyone rub my feet but women are special & different that way). Friends can do nice things for friends without expecting anything in return.
If she says "she isn't sure it's a good idea" or something similar, tell her "lets try it and if you don't like it, you can say stop at anytime and no harm done." If you're sincere, confident and seem genuine about it without thinking this will save your marriage, you might just get through to her. Remember be confident, act like it's not big deal, don't go in with the look on your face that you're seeking her approval, you want to do this and she will want to let you - that's the mindset you will want to have when offering her this nice gesture.
If she agrees to the foot rub, do a good job, focus on the heels, the arch of her ankle (apparently when you massage this correctly you will make the hair on their head stand up straight), the bottom of the feet are strong, lots of muscle tissue, so be prepared to knead it like dough, go up & down the sole of her foot, work on the balls of her feet, work underneath the big toe area, gently rub the top of her foot as well, do a good job and while you're doing it ask her what area feels good or needs attention, after a while if she gets into it she will direct you where to apply pressure and what she likes.
Is this 100% guaranteed to work for you & your situation, no - there aren't any guarantees but I know women for the most part like to have their feet rubbed so there is no harm in offering a friendly foot rub in the evening when the chance presents itself that you're both sitting together on a couch watching some tv.
My wife mentioned that she likes being pampered that way and I'm sure she isn't unique in that respect. I noticed a show where a woman was getting a pedicure at a salon and they were giving her a foot rub & calf/lower leg massage - women pay for this treatment so I'm assuming they must like it alot. Touching her in a non-sexual way that is friendly will go a long way to restoring a bond between you that has been broken for quite some time (obviously don't tell her this part because she will think you're scheming something, just offer the footrub and do a good job)
And before you say anything like "my wife doesn't like this" or "she would never allow me to do this", STOP!!!!!!! Stop setting up obstacles for yourself, let go of that crap mindset and start adopting a successful mindset, you will feel more confident and others around you will feel that vibe as well. Stop thinking it won't work, start thinking it can work. Just offer it the way I described and be friendly about it but not approval seeking. You want to do this, you like to do this, she will like it too if you let her.
Good luck bro, I will wait to hear if you're successful with this.
Secure, confident men that are successful with women do NOT offer to rub the feet, give backrubs, hope that the woman is "over the OM" etc. etc.... TO WOMEN THAT WANT OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP. (or ones that are their friend)It is weak.
How many of you men have EVER offered to give a foot rub to a friend? You are UNDERESTIMATING women, if you believe she won't see through that nonsense.
You have been at this for what? 2-1/2 year?
What you are doing is not working.
A truly confident man would STOP putting up with a woman behaving like yours is. He would STOP making excuses and STOP trying to "figure" it all out....
A truly confident, secure man would give this type of attitude:
I am perfectly fine the way I am. I want someone who WANTS to be with me. I will not share my wife with another man,either phsyically or emotionally. Love in marriage is EXCLUSIVE. PERIOD.
And then he would do everything in his power to move on and stop any and all pursuit and this nonsense of "friendship" that is nothing more than a smokescreen and another method to win her love. Won't work.
Stop this nonsense and admit that this hasn't and isn't working. Two years is more than enough time. You seem to be doing the same things you are giving Kevin 2x4's for.
Time to move on.... Chasing in any form (inclouding the friendship routine) doesn't work.
What works is truly letting them see and FEEL that you ARE and HAVE moved on.
When you decided to make it work again in the M, did you approach Coach or were the two of you "dating" again? I was just wondering what kind of positive signs you might have shown to show you were interested again.
Sorry it took me so long to answer. I've been out of town working.
I don't know if we were dating exactly. We had some events --- concert, birthday dinner for me, and I had to bring my laundry over on Sundays b/c my new place didn't have w/d. When I came over to do laundry, Coach would make a fun dinner for all of us so it was kind of an 'event', too.
I think I'm right about this (Coach can chime in if I'm not) but I think the way I initially approached him was a text that said something to the effect of "doing the work to be married - no shortcuts." I recall his reply was brief but affirming. And we went from there. We had been talking about things - mostly during those Sunday laundry/dinner dates - and some of those talks ended with me leaving ticked, so it wasn't smooth or clear that either one of us was really ready. I believed that I was mostly ready to trust what I was seeing changed in him. So I raised that little flag to see if he'd salute....and he did.
One thing I do remember about that time of transition ~~~ I was scared and probably he could guess that or maybe even saw it. But also, I was very excited and hopeful that I would be happily married to him and that we would be family. I kept that part close to the vest, though. I was cautious. It was like saying "I do" all over again but this time, I had facts - not just fantasies! haha!
Cheers ~~~
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
I think this makes sense, and is true...once one is truly confident and secure, and 'is' perfectly fine they way he is.
That's right. So Stuck, how are you stuck? What are you holding on to that keeps you from feeling perfectly fine the way you are? (BTW- "I'm perfectly fine" coming from H would turn me off as we all have sh*t to work on but get the gist)...
How many of you men have EVER offered to give a foot rub to a friend? You are UNDERESTIMATING women, if you believe she won't see through that nonsense.
Yes, we do see through it. Doesn't work at least in my sitch. Actually made me feel that H was avoiding and ignoring the elephant in the room.
And then he would do everything in his power to move on and stop any and all pursuit and this nonsense of "friendship" that is nothing more than a smokescreen and another method to win her love. Won't work.
Gucci- I hope you'll check out Coach's thread a while back on friendship. I would LOVE to get your take on it. SP came up with "friendiness" and we all tossed it around a bit.
Especially with kids involved, it is hard to find that sweet spot.
