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thanks orchid.

I really had thought that I was detaching well. I should have known that the growing anxiety I felt in the few days before the possibility of seeing him when I headed back into to town was an indication that I needed to stay dark at all costs. I wish I hadn't shown my vulnerability to him again.

I like your idea of moving far away (physically and emotionally) from their erratic behavior. I really was focused on that, then somehow got off track today. big time.

ah well. good night, thanks for your kind words and thoughts.

traveldane: got your message and will come back later today. It is presently time in Coastal City for me to undertake the Transformation and become something vaguely resembling a human being again.

gotcha. thanks SP.

Journaling here-

Feeling pretty low. Being back in home city, even for a few days, is really, really hard. I wasn't expecting it to feel good, but was not prepared for the sting of all the trauma that has gone on over the past 4 months to ratchet up so much.

As I described a few posts back, my sitch is just dismal and I am seriously considering what is wrong with me if, at this point, I do not put the man that was my husband out of my mind, heart and any consideration of my future. I made some major back sliding mistakes yesterday with him on the phone, so of course I am feeling angry at myself for falling into that trap.

I mean, I do know that quiet faith with detachment and NC, but putting the D process on hold, is a very valid approach. I know that sometimes time is what is needed to heal wounds, and allow people into a frame of mind where they can and want to act in a way to reconcile Rs and Ms. But I also wonder if in my sitch, I have had blinders on and not seen what has already happened- a divorce, with a H. that just doesn't make the time to pursue the legal process because I mean so little to him now that he doesn't care or respect what we had enough to do what people do when they end things and move on. If that is the case, and its seems to be at this point, I'm even more shocked that he would treat me that way. But, how can afford any more shock ?

Throughout this process, I believed him that while he does feel nothing for me and or marriage after all that has gone on this past year, that he might not, (probably would not?)feel this way once the hurt and shame and guilt dissipated. I thought, if he did some self work that he, and many around him including IC, pointed out was no longer avoidable (emotional coping, relearning behavior to exchange avoidance for productivity). I've learned that I can certainly use some self work, so great, lets be separated and bring it on.I thought that eventually, he would again look at me and our marriage as valuable and what he wanted most. While, in the state of high emotional chaos, I felt that he would like to take the out if I presented the paperwork and all the remaining finishing touches on as silver platter. I was not willing to this, wanted to at least wait until the dust settled so that he would talk to me, like, you know, a real person.

But more and more I find myself considering his behavior. His behavior has been relatively consistent. Unlike other WAS that are discussed here and in DR, etc., he has not shown any indecision or regret about leaving. He has never called just to say hi, to fish, or to check on me. I know, in the scope of some sitches, its only been 4.5 months of this. But he just seems so final about not looking back. Only a few times has he soften to show any feeling towards me and grows more distant with each, infrequent phone conversation. I assume this correlates with a deepening R with OW. He shows no interest in my life, my activities. Shows coldness and almost contempt for me and our past, and is very irritated that we have remaining debts. I have felt, all along, that what he most wishes is for me to just disappear.

I feel like I should, for my own sake. My only concern is if I am in any way making a mistake. I had told myself I could hang in for the long haul, and here I am thinking I should give up. I would hold on, I would find the strength if I saw any indication to, but I don't want to do so just out of inability to accept the end of a marriage, that just because it doesn't have to be this way, it might just be. How to gauge this? Any WAS, any insight into my H.'s behavior, if you felts so consistently final and then relented? Any of your experienced folks who have seen these thing play out, any gut reactions to my sitch, H.'s behavior, my rambling thoughts?

Thanks, all comments appreciated.

Hi traveldane:

Well I have to say at the outset that I've obviously come too late to the party, because all the hors d'oeuvres have been taken. Plus one shies away from attempting to enter the Fortress of Estrogen that has been constructed here.

Ben Franklin said the worst vice is advice, so I don't have any. I have some experience, though whether it's exportable or not is always a dubious proposition.

As just about everyone else has already said, you're doing quite well, though you may not know it. For me, the key to unlocking the process was the thing @aliveandkicking referred to -- this notion that in some sense I'm already divorced because the marriage that I had, the one that started 18 years ago, is over. It ended the day I was told ILYBNILWY, etc. Now that's somewhat against the internal logic of the DB principles, but it worked for me.

I've come to this place where I simply live my life as if the past is past and my current situation is my current situation. In other words, I accept the "brutal reality" of the present.

The one theme I notice recurring in your posts is your focus on WAH and what he wants / needs / does / thinks / etc. And that's pretty typical -- I know I was there. "Should I move away or stay here to be around for H?" What I've found helpful is to frame questions like that as: "Is it better for me to move or stay here to be around for H?" where "better" is defined as "better GIVEN THAT I AM ALREADY DIVORCED."

That, too, was part of it for me; accepting -- not recognizing, not knowing, but affirmatively accepting -- that I am absolutely powerless over WAW. She will make her decisions based upon her evaluations and her needs. While it is true that I can, at least theoretically, influence her evaluations by GAL'ing, etc., at the end of the day she will decide X if she wants X. So I needed to make MY decisions for MY life based on MY evaluations and MY needs -- not hers.

Some have challenged the logic of my process because they suggest it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. After all, the purpose -- at least, the "ultimate" purpose -- of Divorce-Busting is to "Save Your Marriage."

I see the validity of that challenge, but I'm willing to accept the risk because one fact is incontestable -- WAW does not want to be married to me as I am, as our marriage was, at this time. So I grew weary of swimming against that tide. Perhaps -- perhaps -- she might want to be married to me as I am becoming, but that too is beyond my control.

What I understand is that what I was doing wasn't working, either during or after. SO that had to change.

You've got a number of things to cope with. Until you're 100% traveldane, H is pretty unlikely to want to "come back" to someone who was, say, only 50% traveldane. But to get to 100%, I think it's useful to consider that there are some doors you have to go through alone. There are times in our lives when we're not meant to be with anyone but ourselves.

That, too, was difficult for me to get my head around. It was The Fear that had me in its grasp -- I was running. Running from everything. Fearful that any given thing I would do would "ruin it" and be the "final straw."

Until it dawned on me one day that it had already been ruined! That the final straw had already been stacked! How much worse could it get?

And when I stopped being afraid, things got better. Not "marriage" things, mind you -- me things. Which was something else I finally got my head around.

I was not my marriage.

My marriage was not me.

I was part of a marriage; my marriage was part of me. But there's a Whole Lotta Smiley's Person to go around (the line forms on the left, ladies ), and like the Cameron character in Ferris Bueller's Day Off says, "I am not going to sit on my a** as the events that affect me unfold to determine the course of my life. I'm going to take a stand." I took a stand to recognize that my getting married didn't make my life "start," and my getting divorced won't make my life "end."

Now do I hope that my marriage doesn't end? Of course. But hope is not a plan. I have to have a plan in the event it does end. Because WAW had a plan, didn't she?

In your sitch it doesn't sound so much like WAH has a plan. More like he's flailing away in The Darkness. And as much as you'd like to Bring The Light, it's not yours to bring. HE needs to find his way out of The Darkness.

And if he's lucky, he'll find you there on the other side.

But the Luck will be his, not yours, because you will have created The Light.

For yourself.

Amen

I will read some of your posts and reply......

We all get worn down. We stand back up, and do our best. When we back slide, we forgive ourselves and keep moving forward. We know what our goals are.

We do things that make us happy with/without our spouses. We take care of ourselves FIRST, the relationship changes as we do this. We control the way we react to our spouse. We all have choices on how to react. Validation goes along way: "I am sorry you feel that way".


HUGS

Smiley, Ready2Change and Coach,

thanks for writing to me. to the men folk, thanks for infiltrating the estrogen fortress :-) your Y chromosome presence and perspective is welcome.

I am divorced, I see that. And I am still me. Still not 100% me, like Smiley said, but still pretty darn good. Not fully comfortable here, but working to be. I know i've held back. I hated the idea of H. and I becoming strangers to each other. But its happened, and I need to stare it in the face and not shy away from knowing it. Even more, I think I need to welcome it.

I've always liked the saying, "My barn having burned to the ground, I can now see the moon"-?

When we are young and invincible, we have no idea about things we are drawn to but can't fully understand. Perhaps I tought I understood the above saying, but maybe now its the time to really learn.

I want to find the light, for my self. I like that Smiley, thank you. That has to be my only goal.

I think I was on a roll for a few weeks, in a way, but got derailed by this stupid dance H. and I do over finances. I need to recognize that emotionally, I am not detatched enough to converse with him, over anything. Email only, and strict 3 line limmit. As I'm sure you've noticed, I get chatty with my typing...too much.

thank you guys again.

I read what happened and I read your last post and now I am not sure if I should say anything or not. However, knowing myself like I do......I can't see me "not" saying something.

First of all, I do not change my mind at all from what I think is going on with your H. The fact that he is so very angry at you means that something is very wrong with this picture of his "happiness" in this new life he has with OW and any of the other crap he claims hold to. Now, if he had set you down and talked very calmly and kindly (and that was all the emotion he had).....then I would say go pack it up b/c it is over! But he can't do that! All that rage in him is for a reason. So, without repeating everything I've said in past posts, I still believe it is his way of running from his pain and wanting to "escape" everything that reminds him of his past hurts. Unfortunately, you were part of the package, sweetie. Perhaps "you" did not do any direct hurt to him......but you were part of the entire bomb that exploded in his face. He doesn't know how to deal and the way he is trying is very immature, however, very common. How many people do the very same thing your H is doing?

I am wondering why he is trying to make you mad enough to push you into being the one to file? Is it b/c he wants you to have to pay for the D? I don't know that much about the laws around this issue, but it seems to me that something......or "somebody" must be in a big hurry! Doesn't that make you wonder about it? So, what is his big rush? If I was not ready to get a D, then I would wait out the year. When he finds out that you aren't going to run up and file.....then we'll find out what "he" does. We'll find out if he is being pressured to get D from another "source".

Now, I said all of that to more or less get it out of the way b/c the bottom line here is to ask yourself a very honest question. Regardless of how he is treating you and how he is behaving otherwise........what do YOU want to do? Don't base it on the ten years you've had together. Don't base it on what has happened in the past. Don't even base it on "him" in this present state. I know......sounds crazy, doesn't it? But what I suppose I am trying to get you to look at is one thing and one thing only. What is it you truly want to do? The reason I say this is b/c you are hurt, tired, probably disillusioned, and maybe could be talked into thinking that you feel a particular way when maybe a year from now you wake up and have regrets, but then it could be too late. If you are not ready to turn lose of your hope and dreams of having a life with your H, then refuse to do the filing of a D. He will either have to wait out the year, or he will be forced to do the filing. If he does file.....then you must move on and put him in your past and make a new life for yourself. However, there is a chance that a lot could happen to change the circumstances and to change "him" within a year's time. So, you have to ask yourself if you want to take that gamble and wait out another year of your life, or have you had enough and ready to close the door to him forever. Only you can decide that, sweetheart. You know that--and it will be the hardest decision you have ever made thoughout your lifetime. I think it is one of those times that one almost reaches a point that they want somebody to tell them what to do b/c they feel so fraziled. If you had known me when I was younger you could appreciate what I am about to say. I have learned that when in doubt.....do nothing. Just wait until you are sure about what is right to do.

In a lot of threads, I would probably tell a LBW that she is crazy to wait on some jerk of a WAH who had treated her this way and the quicker she forgets him....the better. However, I try to listen to my "gut" feelings about each stitch and go from that. In this case, I think he is not acting on what is "real" for him but he is in denial. How long it will take him to see it and to get help......who knows.....maybe never. He may totally wreck what is left of his life before he realizes how much damage he's done. Then it's too late. That will be a very sad day for him, indeed. But again, you have to go back to the main question and ask yourself what you want to do b/c things may never change and you could end up losing a year of life (so to speak) waiting on him. So, is it worth it? Is HE worth the gamble? Don't say, "Yes, if only......." You can't say that. You have to accept things as they are NOW and make a decision based on that and realize that you are chosing to take one more year to see where it may lead, or call this to a halt and stop what you are going through and try to start healing and moving on.

I want you to realize that you won't stop hurting. It will take a long time before you won't hurt so badly. But there is something about knowing it is final and that you are shutting the door and moving on that seems to help have "closure". Kind of reminds you of something else, doesn't it?

I have tried to state this in an unbiased way but maybe was not able to do so. The truth is that I just want you to not rush into any decision before you are ready. It's not like you have to decide tomorrow or next week or three months from now. Not as long as he is waiting for you to make the next move! Right? Just be sure, honey, so you will have peace and know that you made the right choice.

If you will stay away from him and refuse to have contact with him until the anger settles (if it ever does), then maybe your mind will clear of so much emotion and confusion and you can think and make a stonger decision.

As I've told you before, whatever you decide, I will be here to support you. It is your life and I, for one, will certainly not find fault with what you decide.

I hope you will try to get some rest and put this day behind you. Stop beating yourself up and blaming youself for backsliding. You are human and all of us will react like a wounded animal when we are treated badly long enough.

As soon as you can, I hope you will find something to keep yourself very busy so that your mind will not stay 100% focused on the stitch. Staying busy physically and mentally has probably kept me from going insane over the years. It is not always easy, but in time..........(how much have you heard that expression?)

If you need me before I get back to your thread, you can reach me on the "Piecing" forum at Sandi's Place or do like you did this last time....

Take care and I'll check back later to see how you are doing.

Sandi