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Any one else have any ideas?

This is Mrs. Coach...about the flirting...Coach really didn't "flirt". Here's what he did. Whenever we had to see each other - a function for our children or an arranged dinner to 'talk' - he looked fab, smelled amazing and had a happy, open face. Not over the top in any way, but definitely troubled himself to look good. And yet, his disposition was not "See what you're missing!?!" It was "Look who I am!" He also had a sort of Teflon coating so that when we had to discuss anything - difficult or not - he had the air of self-containment and confidence. The overarching strategy seemed to be that he was in control of himself. I can count on one hand the number of times he lost his cool with me. The rest of the time, he was 'on' and 'his best' and managing himself.

He didn't send flirty text messages. He didn't flirt in email. Come to think of it, he mostly didn't communicate with TM or EM unless I sent one first. Although I do recall a few times that he sent me links to articles he'd read that were relavent to my profession ~~~ which I LOVED. He didn't call me much either. Most of our contact was face to face, and he was all about the eye contact. In our old marriage, when we would talk, he would look at his dog. No joke. Since he started busting it to heal our M, he hasn't taken his eyes off of me at all. It doesn't matter if I'm asking him to pick up TP on the way home from work, he has got his eyes glued on me. In fact, today he called me while he was driving and while we were talking, he PULLED THE CAR OVER to give me his full attention. Top 5 day for me.

I admit to not really knowing what men think 'flirting' is. Just in case you think it's winking, hey Chicky-chicky, hubba hubba...no, Coach didn't do that. What he did was to be his best self and truly notice me. I didn't stand a chance

Cheers ~

Hi Mrs. Coach,

It is very nice to hear from you. Actually if you could answer a question for me I'd appreciate it.

You mentioned the eye contact. My W will very rarely have eye contact with me. She was like that when we first went out until I pointed out that I was getting a little tired of talking to the side of her nose all the time. This was about 2 months into the relationship.

When she was on her "I have to leave" rants, she would have that fierce burning hatred kind of look and try to stare me down.

Now that she's been home, she again can't look at me in the eyes for long periods when we're talking. She always moves her eyes downwards.

Sometimes I feel that it's a look of shame that she can't look at me. And other times, I fell like she just can't stand the sight of me.

Any thoughts?

Actually any ideas you might have in terms of where my W is or might be thinking would be greatly appreciated.

Your H has been a blessing for helping me.

DOH! I made the same mistakes and didn't realize it until you posted about the sex object issue, particularly after what you posted was exactly what my wife said (draining her love tanks till there was nothing left).

I hadn't realized about the sex object thing as my wife would talk about things in a very non-direct (at least from a DAM point of view) manner.

It makes more sense now, particularly when I remember post bomb, we had switched marriage counselors (other one was useless) and one time she complained about how she wished I would just stop "pretending with the comments". She was talking about how she had just colored her hair and came down wearing just one of my old dress shirts and panties. I told her that I thought she looked hot, but she felt like she looked like a mess. Personally, my wife wearing just one of my shirt had always been a turn on. Apparently, she must have felt like I was thinking about her as a sex object.

Stuck - especially with your focus on this area, you may want to watch out for it as well.

Oh and by the way, my wife used a pillow between us before she moved out of our bedroom.

I did this too and did not know it was a problem. I always thought my W looked stunning even without trying. I thought I was complimenting her.

Also the "tank is empty" comment - I got that too - must be from the script.

The eye contact is H U G E for me. I learned to stay focused on my convos with my W, whether it's text or email. But face to face, I feel like a loser. I need to be more confident when she is around.

Coach and Mrs. Coach, I will defintely work on being the better man in person.

Great advice!
Stick with it Stuck!

Okay, so why doesn't she just move out and file for divorce then if she doesn't want to be married to you?? That's confusing as heck for me.




My husband now? Well he's big on domestic support. He cooks- almost every night. He does laundry and he will clean- even though I prefer to do that most of the time because he works two jobs (one on weekends- he's a teacher). It's alot of things that he does that I appreciate. He will hear me mention something in passing that I like- just making general conversation and then he will give it to me later as a gift- which shows he's listening. For instance after we first got married I had told him not to spend alot of money on my birthday. My daughter and I were walking ahead of he and my son in the store and I saw a Cabbage Patch doll- and I mentioned to daughter that I'd always wanted one but never had one growing up. I didn't even consider he might have heard me. Low and behold for my birthday what did I get? Cabbage Patch doll. He was so excited he was like a little kid. He wrote a note "I want to make all of your dreams come true". Pretty romantic.

You probably shouldn't try to assign motives to why your W doesn't make eye contact easily. Notice you went right to the most negative reasons - shame or disgust. What if it's that you're just too damned goodlooking that she can't look for too long????

I have a theory about eye contact. I think it is a learned behavior. I'm an educator - taught middle school English and now I'm an AP, in charge of discipline. I notice that there are some kids that can and do make eye contact effortlessly with me. Mostly, the little ones - early elementary - have no problem with it. And when I watch them with each other, their eyes are glued to each other. Now, talk with a middle schooler and that is another story. Many times I have to direct them ("let's look at each other while we're talking about this.") Somewhere between 5th grade and 6th grade, approximately, we lose some of our ease, we learn to look away.

Keep looking your W in the eye - even when she won't return the look. If she's not looking at you, look at her eyelashes (a lovely part of any woman!), the arch of her brow...just keep your eyes there. She'll look up and notice every time that you are drinking her in. And if you need remedial work on this, visit your local elementary school and watch a few second graders doing it. Man, they've got it down!

Here's lookin' atcha!
Cheers ~~~

That's so true Greek.

For me- if it's something I don't want to hear I tend to divert my eyes when my H is talking.

CIPA and givingitmyall,

I don't think the "sexy" comment is bad in a stable relationship, but only if it is done when the occasion calls for it. Also if your W suffers from low self-esteem, it probably would make her more uncomfortable.

In my case, I didn't call my W "sexy" but "attractive" or "you look great" after the bomb. She seemed uncomfortable about that because she probably thought of that as pursuing or whatever. So the compliments I've been giving are more on her abilities as a mom and nurse.