So what I've recently learned is that when she tells me something, no matter how small, it's important to her. Many of the WAWs on here talk about how they kept telling their Hs about what was wrong and they couldn't get the hint. Well my W says things once, sometimes even in casual conversations and expects me to "understand". I think for the majority of our R I've been mindreading her. Believe me, from day one I've always asked her if something was wrong, or how was her day, etc. just to get her to open up. She would just say "my day was okay" or "nothing's wrong". Even though obviously there is.
Man, this is sooooo from the WAW script/pattern. Exactly the same for me. My W said she had been sending me "signals" the last several months before she dropped the bomb, which I did not pick up on - casual statement passing in the hall type thing. She has told friends of ours it is "too bad for me" and "my problem" that I did not pick up on her "sigals" - which I still am in the dark about.
Early in our R, I would ask a lot bout whether something was wrong if I suspected it. She actually told me back then that she was an open person who would tell me if there was something wrong - I "would not have to wonder. I would know since she would tell me." Funny how the present sitch makes one look back on comments like those.
What I had told my W was that she was abandoning her kids like her dad did to her. She flipped it around and said that she would be active in their lives unlike her dad. Then I flipped it back and told her that she'd only be active for "half" of their lives since I would have the other half. And I told her that I know how much it would kill her to not have the kids with her and to see them with another mom because if we got divorced it wouldn't be a matter of "if" I found another woman, it would just be a matter of when. She didn't say anything after that.
I think she's still in the un-reality of it all. She has never even mentioned anything about money or where to live, or anything like that. She just wants out. So I told her that if she wanted to leave, I wasn't stopping her and that if she really believed that it was our M that is making her miserable, then she can leave. I told her that I was fine as a single dad and while I loved her very much, I didn't NEED her.
I think I had that conversation with her first in Feb. Then it came up again a couple of times since, the latest being two weeks ago. And she hasn't made any move to leave and seems to be content at home.
So what do you think she wants? Could she be waiting for someone "better" to come along and then leave with him?
I told her if she were planning to date, I expect her to have our D done with but she hasn't done anything to look up D or find a L or anything to move towards a D. Even though she threatens alot with it.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
She could be waiting around for someone else or it could be that she can't go through withdrawal because of seeing OM all the time.
I'm telling ya- she's not prepared for seeing her kids with another woman.
Heck, I'm remarried- happily- and stepmom and I have known each other for years but it kinda still turns my stomach when we're both around (we get along well) and my daughter goes to her for something. But I suck it up. My son is more standoffish with her so that one doesn't hurt so bad- but the daughter? It kills me still.
However, she's got to determine why she strayed in the first place and be honest about it to herself. After that, then she can talk about her real feelings with me. She's just not at that point. She and the rest of her family have a hard time opening up about emotions, so it's something she has to learn to stop burying or else she'll never be happy no matter who she's with.
Thanks for the comments. More are appreciated.
She strayed from you because you exhibited behaviors that were unattractive and on top of that she probably is attracted to other men who exhibit more attractive behaviors.
She doesn't need to be honest about something you already know the answer too.
If she was attracted to you in the first place, she probably wouldn't have strayed.
I think a combination of what DQ and robx says can work as both have their pros and cons. There is no complete answer.
The main problem I have with the dating is that it is like issuing an ultimatum. Plus it does go against what I believe as a marriage and would make me seem hypocritical.
I don't bring up R talks and only brought up things that bothered me when I couldn't take certain actions any more. Trust me, I'm no one's doormat. I've told her several times that if she didn't like what I was saying, she was more than welcome to leave. I told her that while I loved her, I didn't need her. The last time I said that was about a month ago and I really expected her to go running out the door at that point. Instead she stayed and even thanked me for talking to her.
After that talk, things were turning around for us. She was happier and more open. Then it was like another switch was turned on a couple of weeks ago and she went back to being distant.
Strange.
Doing alot of DB techniques will be counter-intuitive and against any & all of your pre-conceived notions on how to do things. Learning that you have to do things drastically different is what this process is about. Doing what you did in the past will not bring her back.
And you answered that issue by starting of with the statement, "... I have a problem with"
Yes you have a problem with doing it. Change your mindset and start doing things that you're uncomfortable with, get out of that comfort zone, currently it can't be that comfortable considering you're trying to get your wife back.
Stop bringing up things that bother you, part of going dark means keeping that stuff to yourself, being mysterious, acting as if everything is great & awesome. Telling her that the separation bothers you and that these issues are bothering you just confirms to her that you aren't the kind of guy that can take the lead in the situation and continue pressing forward regardless of problems.
As far as things turning around and being more pleasant and then things switching back to the way it is, expect that. The WAS is going to flip back & forth on this issue: you have to expect it and better yet, you have to not care about it. When it starts bothering you less than it bothers her, you will see a drastic change in the relationship.
So how fast did your W turn around after you started dating? Again, just curious. And is there any reason why you're not reconciled if she's doing all that?
Very quickly.
It was like turning on a light switch in a dark room.
She got angry, she flipped out, she never expected that I would do something like that, she liked the power she had that she could be in more than one relationship and keep me in the background just in case things never worked with her affair.
When I started dating, it showed her I was moving on. The realization that the person she considered a possession was no longer her's anymore. The dynamic in the power structure changed, as soon as I stopped tolerating her behavior and started entertaining the notion that i could find someone just as easily as she could threw her off balance. She no longer had that power over me, she no longer held the power in the relationship. She switched gears to apologizing, damn-near begging, pleading for me to stop.
It was a weird situation to be in because I wanted to believe her and I did for a bit of time.
But as soon as I stopped, the old behaviors crept back on her part. Once she saw that it was quite easy to get me back when I had struggled so hard and so long to get her back she thought she regained the power in the relationship. My value in her perception dropped again because she knew I was waiting for her.
I had to resume dating & getting a life and going dark for her to realize that I wasn't going to wait around anymore.
So how fast did your W turn around after you started dating? Again, just curious. And is there any reason why you're not reconciled if she's doing all that?
As I mentioned in another post, very fast.
Here's the thing, you can't just take them back just like that. They have to realize that you have alot of value, how important you are, what you bring to this relationship equation.
If you just show that you're that easy to win back, there is no challenge in that, very boring, very predictable.
Plus you can't just take your spouse back without any work on both of your parts.
You can't go back to the relationship you had, you can't EVER go back to what you had. What you had led you to this point in your life and in your relationship, going back will lead you back to the same place.
The relationship has to change dramatically and you have to stay on your toes and challenge yourself to be a better person for yourself first & foremost. You have to realize that after something like this, you will always be tested and consequently you were always being tested and your wife was doing this without even knowing she was testing you - everytime she pushed past a boundary, everytime she was able to disrespect you, lie to you, hide things from you - each time any of those things happened, her respect for you kept plummeting.
You have to expect the best from yourself and your partner. You have to challenge her to do better because frankly you're worth it and she needs to know that if she wants to keep you and if she thinks you will wait around forever because you are devoted to your marriage then you are hurting your chances of getting her back because she has nothing to work for if she knows you will be waiting all this time.
LRT, 180s, going dark, getting a life, dating, etc.
Well I've already changed and apologized for my errors in the M. Sometimes I worry about my W believing all the lies she was telling herself to push me away. I mean, she was the most gentle and trusting person I knew (as are most WASs I've found out, LOL), then she turned around and became this spiteful, angry, depressed and bitter person. Sometimes I wonder if it was the birth of our last child only 2 years ago that pushed her over (hormones). Plus I think her family has a history of depression although they don't talk about it.
Stop apologizing for everything, always realize that the relationship is a dual responsibility shared by two people, it's not all you, if you keep taking all the blame, she'll never feel as if she did anything wrong.
Hormones are definitely at play but it doesn't have anything to do with the child birth (or at least not to the extent that you're thinking it does).
Her being spiteful, angry, depressed and a bitter person towards you is her treating your poorly because you stand in the way of her great life. She is guilty about her actions but doesn't want to change her ways because her new found freedom is too important to her, you're an obstacle in that new life. She doesn't like feeling guilty, everytime she looks at you it's a reminder of that guilty feeling and since she doesn't want to fix the relationship because at this point her attraction towards you is very minimal, she can only feel guilty about her actions and angry at you because you remind her of what she's done.
Her anger, cruel, bitter attitude is a natural thing that most WAS's experience when they have an affair (or affairs) and still have a LBS to deal with at home.
Incidentally, I believe my W is in the throes of a bad MLC, and in on the materials I've read on the subject, there is nothing you can do to change their mind. All you can do is hang on and weather the storm.
Believing there is nothing you can do is yet another action item for you to work on.
You can always do something.
Lot's of women & men go through MLC and at the same time carry on with emotional & physical affairs so they are still functional, it's not like they're broken.
You just sitting there & waiting for her to come to her senses is a sure fire way to make sure she doesn't ever come back to you. Why would she? What would be the impetus for her to change and to return just because you're silent and taking no action? What would increase her attraction towards you if you are silent and don't do anything.
You are still analyzing this problem using your own built in male logic and you fail to realize that some of that logic is what got you here in the first place.
Actually the hardnose attraction stuff that robx was referring to didn't work too good in frank_d's case.
That's why everyone's got to work on a strategy that suits their sitch.
- what hardnose attraction stuff are you referring? LOL!
Too funny.
Attraction is at the heart of all of these relationship issues. If you aren't attracted to your spouse, what would motivate you to work on the relationship & make it better?
As far as "frank_d's" case, we really don't know what he did or how he did it so you can't say that working on improving attraction doesn't work - more than likely whatever he did do wasn't successful at improving the attraction with his wife. Being nice, buying gifts, providing truckloads of attention, doing things and always being there isn't going to improve attraction. Plus we don't know how much frank_d has been honest considering his respective situation: these are hard issues to deal with and sometimes people don't want to be honest with the things they've done to hurt the relationship because they're afraid of rejection even from anonymous strangers on the internet.
Improving attraction is where it's at, doing things that improve attraction is what needs to be done and there are many methods for doing this. Don't fault the methods, fault the practices used to employ them.
Being attracted to someone isn't a conscious decision that anyone makes so when you're attracted to someone it's because you are attracted to them physically, a person excites you, they have traits that you find appealing: sexy, strong, secure, ambitious, independant, aggressive, assertive, funny, confident/quasi-arrogant,etc.
