Shiny you are ray of sunshine today. It's rainy and cloudy here.
Quote: Seems to me that PART of your H's problem is that he doesn't HEAR himself...it's NOT yelling to him, it's no big deal to call you an idiot etc.
Tell me, Cath, is this kind of how his family is?
His family isn't like that so much, his dad used to call him names, such as, stupid, belittle him a lot, etc. So this is why he thinks it's okay and he doesn't think it's a big deal, you're right. He's even said so, this is the way my dad treated me. It really doesn't bother me that much either, because my family is kind of like that too, if you do something stupid, they say it. But it's not about whether it bothers me or not it's about respect. It also can affect a person's self esteem and that's not what I want for S3. H has called S19 stupid, idiot, [censored], etc. when he was a lot younger and it did affect S19.
Quote: Have you tried to just tell him how his words make you feel?
As in "When you call me an idiot, I feel like a child being scolded by a parent, and it really hurts"
I've never said those exact words, but have told him why I don't like yelling. I was yelled at a lot when I was growing up. One of the reason I don't like being yelled at, I do feel like a bad child. He is a yeller and I am just beginning to accept this, that it's just who he is and that if he could just lower the decibel a little it would be more acceptable.
Quote: But also making it clear, in a non-heated manner that his current/ongoing behaviours are not acceptable, and why, and then perhaps retreat if necessary?
I did an okay job of retreating yesterday and I guess he did hear me say he was mean. So maybe he heard me today when I said "you don't want to do anything with me and I'm not going to sit at home either."
He needs to think about what he says to me, because he's the one who left me.
If he goes to the party tomorrow night and everybody's been drinking, I have feeling his family is going to start giving him a hard time about what he's doing so maybe it's better that I'm not there.
Quote: He is a yeller and I am just beginning to accept this, that it's just who he is and that if he could just lower the decibel a little it would be more acceptable.
As a former yeller, it IS possible for us to GET how this behaviour affects others and do more than just turn the volume down...I try to be very conscious of this, and it is much much better.
Quote: But it's not about whether it bothers me or not it's about respect. It also can affect a person's self esteem and that's not what I want for S3. H has called S19 stupid, idiot, [censored], etc. when he was a lot younger and it did affect S19.
EXACTLY! It is just plain NOT respectful! It sure feels familiar to us yellers, but familiar doesn't make it RIGHT!
I, for example, wouldn't dream of speaking to my friends as I've spoken to CJ, or have them spin in the wake of a freakout! I'll bet your H doesn't speak that way to his boss!
My point is...we CAN choose to express our frustrations and such in far less destructive ways. We can learn when to back off completely (like "what did you do all day" ), we can learn to count to ten, meditation has helped from the standpoint of letting go.
And when we mess up and our anger spills over and affects you...we can learn to hear you when you tell us how you feel, and apologize.
I guess what I'm trying to say is don't just settle for lower volume, there's a whole lot better than that if you both work at it!
Quote: I, for example, wouldn't dream of speaking to my friends as I've spoken to CJ, or have them spin in the wake of a freakout! I'll bet your H doesn't speak that way to his boss!
I used to say to my H, I don't care if you don't like me my friends do...well it took me a while to realize that I didn't treat my friends the way I treated him, so why wouldn't they like me? Thus I have been treating my spouse as I would my closest friends.
I also am a yeller, but have really been watching myself lately, more with my son. I have been consiously watching how I speak to him so that I'm not always yelling. I don't want him to grow up with that memory either. My mother was a stay at home mom with six children, four of which were boys, so I know why she yelled a lot.
Quote T2: Remember, they spend a huge part of their time convincing themselves that what they have done is UNFORGIVEABLE because to most MEN, if the shoe were on the other foot, it would be. So your H is skeptical that your desire to reconcile is REAL or possible. So YOU have to show him that YOU believe it is and eventually, he'll buy into it.
T2 I stole this from your response to...I don't remember, but I brought it over here in hopes that you'll be checking my thread out. We are still separated, but do you think So YOU have to show him that YOU beleive it is and eventually, he'll buy in it is something you can do while still separated?
Today was a very interesting day. H had to work, he was running a tower crane, so I took son to watch him. It's the same crane he was running when I first met him and the exact same radio guy (my friends nicknamed him matchmaker) was working with him today. This is how I first met my H. I was walking into work one day and approached my building his radio guy, matchmaker, stopped me and asked me if I wanted to meet the crane operator after work for a drink...and we've been together ever since, 11 years.
So we went to lunch, came here, H fell asleep, S fell asleep, I watched a movie. H gets up and leaves. S19 is supposed to meet him here at 3 so I found it odd that he just left without saying anything, well actually not. So I called S19 to see if he was still coming over or if maybe plans had changed. I said your D just left, but I'm sure he's coming back. So called H to see where he was, he was getting a card for the surprise b-day party for BIL. S19 is going with him, me and S3 are not. He was using his no emotion voice on the phone, says he went to get a card, I say oh, he says bye. S19 gets here says D went to get a card, he called him to when he got here, S19 then asked what was wrong D, he sounded weird on the phone like he had a hangover. I said I think he's tired.
Something is definitely up with H today, he's feeling something...
Was checking out your post and something caught my eye. You said H has backed off when you back off. I know how you feel my H has been doing that too. I think that you need to try different thing, but one at a time. I was doing to many at once and I think I was confusing my H. So this is what I'm trying- being friendly praising him with a hug and words to show him I appreciate what he does around here, now I'll see what happens. When I would back off, my H would back way off! I think you have to play it somewhere in the middle. This is all about finding out what works and then sticking to it! So find out what works and go for it! Deb
Quote: I think that you need to try different thing, but one at a time. I was doing to many at once and I think I was confusing my H.
Maybe you're right, maybe I have been trying to do too much, even I'm confused at this point!
We are separated though, he is living with OW still, but I'm beginning to feel like she might not be an issue for much longer..maybe, hoping. I also feel like I've tried everything and am back to starting over again. If I piece the last couple of months together, there have been a lot of babysteps, steps backwards, and lately one or two big steps along with more babysteps.
Inside I know what pursuing behaviors are, I know what thoughtful pursuing behaviors are, and am beginning to figure out when to back off.
Lately I've beginning to feel that I can't tell my H what I've been doing because it will hurt his feelings. In the same way that he doesn't like bringing up OW to me because he knows it'll hurt MY feelings. Is that normal or does that even make sense? I haven't asked him to do anything with me a in a long time, so maybe I should start trying to bring him back in to the "family." I'm beginning to realize his first reaction/response to something is always going to be negative, but he does sometimes come around if I give him space.
"bridges were being burnt when M was falling apart. Now he looks across over the smoldering structure wondering if there is ever a way to get back. He doesn't know if he has done to much damage or if he can step over cindered boards. " T2
As I have read all the posts by all our BB friends one thing rings true throughout them...ALL of the WA spouses are childlike. They're all like school yard bullies with us. They yell at us, or talk down to us, insult us with their words or deeds. They say and do horrific things that NO ONE besides us would ever accept or put up with. OUR WA spouses are and have always been emotional cripples in one form or another and WE were the one person that took them to heart and proped them up. I think that none of them ever really saw themselves as worthy of us or our love because they have lived their lives fighting their demons of insecurity and self loathing....eventually they turned on us. WE become their scapegoats. WE become the target of thier Payback for the all the world has done to them. WE are vulnerable to them and they use that vulnerability to make us pay for all thier sins...and WE allow it.
I think it says a lot about us, this codependency, we really do need to HEAL ourselves in order to free ourselves from accepting this abuse of our lives, our trust, our love. T2
Quote: "bridges were being burnt when M was falling apart. by me? or by both of us? Now he looks across over the smoldering structure wondering if there is ever a way to get back.for him to get back to our M? Meaning I wouldn't let him come back or that I'm moving on w/wo him? He doesn't know if he has done to much damage Does this mean A with OW or if he can step over cindered boards. "
So if I'm understanding this corectly, he might be trying to figure out a way back to us? He's in a big mess right now, he doesn't like to hurt people's feelings, I don't think he's ever had to sit down and explain to someone that something isn't working, to say to OW I want my M back. What I can see him doing is shutting down from OW, pissing OW off, waiting for OW to tell him to get out, but then what do I know.
Cathy, Hi, yes, I do absolutely believe you can do it while separated...hell, I'm separated and have been this time since mid April. We've done some of our best healing during this separation. I know I have and continue to come a long way as the weeks pass. I feel like Popeye in some ways, like I've downed some magical can of spinach that is giving me strength I never thought I'd have. I don't know if my new stength will make for a M...but it will definitely make for a stronger more independant me and if I can't be a wife to my H ever again...at least I'll be a better friend to myself. T2
Quote: I think it says a lot about us, this codependency, we really do need to HEAL ourselves in order to free ourselves from accepting this abuse of our lives, our trust, our love.
Ohh so true, but I am ever so slowly, baby steps actually, not accepting the abuse from H any longer. I allowed him to do this, it was easier then standing up for myself, but it slowly eroded away my self esteem and my self worth. Now that I have both back I don't want to lose them again.
It's been almost six month since the bomb and thing are ever so slowly changing, but there's lots more work to be done.
), we can learn to count to ten, meditation has helped from the standpoint of letting go.
