It sounds just like her situation. She did say she wanted to just be "taken" and I know she was angry for not getting enough attention. Indeed now after lots of thinking, reading (especially Schnarch), and insight like this I know what needs to be done.
We talked a little about our SSM this weekend because she mentioned earlier it was a reason for marriage failure. I validated that I too didn't want to live in a SSM, and will not live in a SSM with her or anyone else again. There was nothing wrong with me or my drive. Our sitch made things difficult for us and that she needed to quit being angry and I needed to lighten up, and take over. Sorry it happened. End of conversation.
I find this area so frustrating because while I've showed improvement in other areas of my life, how do I show change here? I've flirted a little more and showed greater charm and care. But how can I show change without doing the deed? This is an issue WE need to work on. But it can't change until we do.
I suspect W is cautious of sexuality during separation or divorce because she's mentioned how her sister used it to try to win her men back. It didn't work and she felt used.
So I don't know what the present sitch calls for right now. The foot rubs aren't all it. Do I hold back and wait for a green light from her then take over from there? Maybe it will be a few weeks, few months, or never at all. Do I act bold now and tell her what I want (and how I want it)?
I'd sure like to just to leave shreds of her clothes all over the bedroom floor (or even laundry room is fine with me) but I'm just not sure of the sitch.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
I meant to say that none of my insight was an urge to take any action. I was hoping that my experience might help you understand some of your situation.
Only you can read the level of connection and intimacy between you two. It is so healthy that you are able to discuss these issues with her. If you are inspired to be flirtatious and to show admiration, I would encourage it... it can't hurt as long as these are authentic gestures that smell nothing like manipulation. With time, you will know if and when "going in for the kill" is a good idea.
I hope that is helpful. For now, I recommend continued patience and a loving but dignified/self-respecting demeanor.
My planned trail ride canceled yesterday because of weather so on to GAL plan B. BFF was at house hyper organizing and we talked a little. I Went for a run, got back, W was there and BFF had left.
I didn't have anything going on but didn't want to look like it so I left for a while and got a coffee at the bookstore (mysterious). I came back about 9:15p and sat down for a while with W. She was quietly folding socks and watching girl reality tv. I didn't engage much.
About 9:30 I told her I was tired and turning in. I fell asleep and woke up when I heard the dog scratching to go outside. I had slept so hard I thought it was already morning but it was only 11:45p ! (I'm a little concerned it depression coming back - that kind of hard sleep is symptom).
Anyway. The theme was quiet. Not much engagement.
--
This money thing came up again this morning. W transferred $8k to her own savings account so I wrote a simple email asking why she transferred there instead of BFF's account? I got a nasty phone call in return (now her usual MO comes out).
w: "I want to know why you're so uptight about this $8k? And why were you so weird to BFF yesterday when she was at the house yesterday?"
o'd "I wasn't weird to BFF yesterday. I was nothing but cordial and polite. We made some small talk and stuff and I got the mail. What did she actually tell you?"
w: "Well...you were really quiet to me yesterday and it wasn't like you."
o'd "I was tired. I went to bed at 9:30 and crashed hard. But getting to the other subject, I told you yesterday, I don't want our money mingling with other people's". I'm not uptight about it, just taking care of business."
w: "Well BFF is paying for rent and housing expenses in advance."
o'd: "That's not what you said yesterday." (supposed to be a transfer to BFF's STBX)
w: "I didn't say that. If you're going to be like this then I will go ahead and file."
o'd: "Hey, I'm just taking care of myself and my business. We're only informally sep'd, not divorced, so I have a right to know what's going on in our $ life because it affects me."
w: "I think I should take you off the joint account"
(It's obvious she doesn't like me to know what's going on)
o'd: "Whatever. Just keep me in the loop about what's going on with these big amounts."
Some more talk. She calms down.
w: "OK. We'll keep the joint account open but it's only for big expenses right now so don't use it."
o'd: "Got it. Wasn't planning on it anyway"
w: "Oh, and on your indiv. account you should make a transfer. You've only got five in there right now but a bunch of money in savings."
o'd: "Thanks for the reminder. I'll take care of it later."
small talk.
Bye
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
Wow, did you hit the nail on the head describing my M as well. Thanks so much for your insight, although like orangedog, I'm not sure if I will have opportunity to take advantage of it. I was so frustrated with my W. Three pregnancies in four years were very hard on our physical relationship. It did pick up a little after our last child was born, but it never "stuck". Now I see how how I failed. Why isn't this stuff taught to marriage counselors!
One more thought on this... It isn't really fair that so many of us "good girls" (I was raised Catholic and conservative, brainwashed to avoid sexuality within myself and with others) need their men to "take them" and lead them through the exploration of intimacy. It puts so much pressure on the man.
I've often thought... Gee, if I were a guy, and someone told me it was all up to me to "take" my woman and know exactly how to guide her through these adventures... I'd sure be nervous about knowing what to do and even more nervous about doing it right. (Note: You shouldn't worry too much about all this stuff, because your woman has a responsibility to guide you and give you feedback on what's working for her, in particular. I just know that I'd still feel pressure as the Type A control freak that I am.)
I also think this "good girl" mentality explains why some of us just get angry and cold and withdrawn, unable to communicate our desires or initiate too much. We were taught to be ladies, not "whores," so we are conditioned to rely on our men to coax us into enjoying our "bad girl" sides for a while.
It's scary stuff for women and men, I think.
I hope all of you guys get a chance to work through these issues someday, but you probably have several layers of other issues to peel away first so that trust and desire are calibrated properly.
I'm sorry that these discoveries weren't revealed to you long before the bombs. It isn't fair.
Yes, Lucky, I read some of the things you refer to in the other threads and Schnarch about behaviour and roles inside and outside the bedroom.
As you said, women were taught to be ladies, not "whores". Men were taught to be gentlemen, not cavemen. But in the bedroom we're supposed to let it all go and get animal like. Easier said than done.
Here, I've been beating myself up for a long time now because thinking I've got hang-ups or something wrong inside. W even suggested maybe I was batting for the other team...uh no. Nothing's wrong (except maybe too much nice-guy stuff). The intimacy thing just needs to grow into this stage to stay alive.
I can see that it CAN happen but it takes a lot of letting go, trust, and communication between both partners. It WILL happen with her or the next Mrs Orangedog.
--
After I confronted W on this banking stuff today, she's acting all nice. Isn't that interesting.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
I've been meaning to ask you... How does this joint bank account work between you two? Who makes more money? Do you put equal parts in it each month? Is the 8K YOUR money? I'm confused...
H and I have our own bank accounts and then a joint account that each of us stocks each month with half of our income. The joint account is for the household. What is left in our own accounts is for whatever we want... save, gifts for each other, that snazzy new silk shirt... It's always worked great for us.
Our joint account works just like yours. We set it up just after the bomb but in truth we should have done it long ago. I agree. It works.
W makes more money.
W contributes more because if we were to break out all the pieces of the ch 13, she would owe more for those. Otherwise for housing and such she pays a little more.
After 6/1 we're going to keep expenses separate. I will pay my portion of ch13. She will pay for kids insurance and child support to me.
The $8k was BFF's money. There's more about it on the first entry in this thread.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
