I'm back, had a bit of tough time getting into the forums, something happened to my account, thankfully the forum admins responded to my email and enabled my account (thank you guys).
It is easier to think about things when you use the squirrel analogy, it is a very good analogy - when you frame things this way it's easier when you have to determine how to respond to certain things said/done.
Here is an update on my situation: - still separated
... OK, I thought a little bit of humor would help.
I think things haven't gotten a little better, I mean we're still separated but things have been a little friendlier with some surprising twists.
She talks to me more now than previously. She is more receptive to conversation albeit the conversation is usually one sided, ie. about her, etc. But I do show some interest, I don't want to appear as if I'm hanging from every word but I do show interest and ask more about any given topic she is discussing to get the conversation going and build more rapport.
She has hugged me a few times more since the last time and she also has told me that whenever I need to talk about anything, she told me I can call her/txt her - I thanked her for the offer and offered the same thing to her as well.
Last weekend I found myself working the entire weekend, moving one of the head offices for the company that I work for to a new location (moving servers, computers, network gear, related equipment, etc.). She had the kids thurs, fri & sat and after taking the kids out for mini-golf, she txted me to see how my day was and how things were going and that the kids were having fun. Told her that if she wanted to, she could come by and check out the new office that we moved to which was recently built. She accepted and brought the kids down (the kids had a blast, brand new office which is still largely unfurnished, I was the only there and they had a ton of fun running around, etc.). I told her I was going to be done @5pm that evening and that if she was interested, we could all go out for a dinner that evening (us & the kids) and she was receptive to that: we were both hungry and the kids definitely wanted to go out for dinner as well.
We had a good time going out for dinner, it was a fun family experience. I'll be honest, I can tell she was flirting with me (which pretty much confirms what I had mentioned in my earlier posts) and flirting obviously. She ordered a strawberry margarita and shared it with me, she cut up bits of her steak and shared it with me, we shared dessert, etc.
I took the kids that night because she worked the next morning and I'm usually the one that brings the kids to sunday school, she stayed that evening till the kids went to sleep and kept flirting with me.
She pretty much confirmed that she wanted to be physical with me but she didn't want me to confuse being physically intimate and wanting to get back together again. She is very confusing and in the past I would have probably told her that and started a bit of an argument also. A couple weekends previous to this she asked me if I still love her and she also said that it's not like she didn't want things to work out and then a few weekends later, she becomes flirty with me and admits that she wants to be physically intimate with me but she doesn't want me to confuse that with her having feelings for her. I told her that's fine, if she just wanted to have sex and didn't want me to pressure her into talking about love & feelings, I would be ok with that too.
So yes we ended up having sex and if I did wrong, any of you experienced DB'ers please say so, seriously I'm starting to doubt myself if I did wrong in going through with this. I had sex with my WAS (walk away spouse, I think that is the acronym for that), serious sex and we both really enjoyed it. I know she enjoyed it because she txted me a few days later asking me if I had fun that night because I didn't say anything afterwards and hadn't txted her the next day (maybe another mistake, maybe she was waiting for me to contact her after that?)
Seriously a guy can really get lost in all of the tests that his wife puts him through during a separation and evening during the course of a normal relationship. Is it just me or do women just continuously test their husbands? It's like you can't relax because if you do, you will fail some test. Right now I have to show her that she can trust me not to fall back into my previous bad patterns & behaviours, show her that the "wall" is strong so if she attempts to punch holes in it, she will realize that it is strong or that I am strong.
Was I wrong in having sex with my wife during our separation? It hasn't led to a reconciliation and I haven't forced that issue, in fact I've played it cool and just treated it as sex just as she had asked. I get the feeling she wants to have sex again, she told me it was pretty hot and that she had read somewhere that husbands/wives who are separated/divorced but hook up together to have sex end up having really hot sex and I guess that's a big turn on for her - she apparently had a lot of fun.
So what's my next move? My only problem is this, if I just have sex with her and never push the relationship issue, am I not communicating to her that this is fine with me and that's all we are really good for - physical intimacy but not emotional intimacy?
Think back to when you guys were a strong couple. When you had sex, was there a lot of heavy R talk with it, or was it really light and fun and sex out of mutual attraction and physical magnetism?
If you were dating would you go down the road of all the heavy emotional stuff, or would you have sex and just enjoy it for what it is?
My W had sex with me a few times in the early stages of seeing me start changing. She emphasized that she did not want to confuse me also and that it was just sex, but you know what, I think it was still another test to see if she could break my resolve and cause me to start pursuing again. If your W is a fairly emotional person like mine, then sex is never "just sex".
I say go with it, and show her that it just makes you happier and more fun to be around (aka wall veeery strong).
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Seriously a guy can really get lost in all of the tests that his wife puts him through during a separation and evening during the course of a normal relationship. Is it just me or do women just continuously test their husbands? It's like you can't relax because if you do, you will fail some test. Right now I have to show her that she can trust me not to fall back into my previous bad patterns & behaviours, show her that the "wall" is strong so if she attempts to punch holes in it, she will realize that it is strong or that I am strong.
lol it's not just you. I wish I had figured it out earlier, I would be in a much better place than I am right now.
Although it may seem like you can't relax, being aware of these tests for me is the first step towards being a better man. ie. if you can change into someone who naturally meets the challenges with ease, you no longer feel like you cannot relax. It's not a matter of having to prop up the wall, because the wall becomes who you are and it just is.
I actually feel myself changing (still not all the way there yet, long way to go). Instead of being one way and having to work on identifying the tests and passing them, I am becoming someone who naturally passes such tests because that is just the way I am. It feels good, I feel more relaxed, stronger, less controlling, more willing to accept that the occasional storm will come up, and that I am confident I can navigate through it quickly instead of letting it flood me and take me down with it.
Two books that have aided me in this area are "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, and "Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida. I recommend reading them in that order if you are interested.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
spellfire I really appreciate the replies to my posts, seems to me you really get me and my situation, glad to see that my situation isn't totally unique.
She has her days where the bad attitude comes out of her and I've been sticking to my guns to not get sucked into an argument. I have even told her a few times that I just don't feel like arguing, that I won't get sucked into an argument and when she does feel like arguing, I try not to reply as much, let her do most of the talking and keep my cool and keep my attitude in check. It is so easy to get sucked into an argument, it does require discipline to let things go.
The analytical person in me keeps thinking though that if I let her argue with me or be mean to me and not stand up for myself and just keep my mouth shut and not argue back with her, I'm telling her that it's ok to do those things and I'm definitely not ok with arguing, bad mouthing, bad attitudes, etc.
But I'm remembering what you're saying, I'm a wall, a strong wall and I have to show her and probably more importantly myself that she can't tear down that wall.
Anyone have problems with detachment? Some days are easier than others. My real question is sometimes, it is so easy to detach, too easy in fact, I consider just giving up on this and start dating again and starting over. I love her and want her to wake up see value in me, in us, our marriage, our family and not just for our kids but for her & for me. I start thinking about how much time this is wasting, that I could get hit by a truck and all of my efforts would be in vain. Isn't life short, shouldn't we be valuing it by not wasting time, living for today?
It would be so easy to start over again. I saw a girl I used to date and she was really impressed by how I looked, what I did for a living, we talked a bit and to be honest there is physical chemistry still there - sometimes you can literally feel it. She told me to call her sometime to go out for a drink and gave me her number.
However I love my wife and want my marriage to work so I can't follow up on that offer but I tell you on those days where I think it would be easy to give up my work on DB'ing and just have fun and start over, it can be a struggle to find a reason in me to stay put and stay on the course and work on making my marriage successful even if it's just me working on it.
Maybe there's a lesson in there too. It's easy to start over again, it's easy to find someone new but having discipline and a strong resolve to fix what is broken is important, and choosing the easier paths in life doesn't build character and doesn't say alot about you. The flipside is maybe life doesn't have to be hard and I make things difficult on myself because i just don't know when to quit.
what's the rules on communicating with your spouse because maybe I do too much?
Text messages, should I limit them or make sure I respond to every txt message? Am I allowed to initiate them or should I limit my contact and only respond when she messages me.
Phone calls? Same thing as above?
Should you always appear happy even if things in life are sucking? Put on a fake face just to show you're strong and can handle the separation and are living life just fine?
Yes, always act happy even if things suck and try to wait for her to make contact first and try not to respond immediately. You have to take things slow, believe me.
If you haven't ask about MC you might start looking into that. Getting them back is the easy part, keeping them is where the real work comes in. My W came back twice and is gone again right now. You just never know.
Last edited by RobD70; 01/29/0910:12 PM.
Me:38 W:40 Bomb/EA 03/08 Recon twice 1/09 W files for D Story
The analytical person in me keeps thinking though that if I let her argue with me or be mean to me and not stand up for myself and just keep my mouth shut and not argue back with her, I'm telling her that it's ok to do those things and I'm definitely not ok with arguing, bad mouthing, bad attitudes, etc.
It's ok to stand up for yourself. This is called establishing boundaries. The strong wall part is all about how you go about it (not getting sucked into fighting, getting defensive etc). If she does stuff that anyone with self respect would not tolerate, I personally would tell her. Establish the boundary, but do it in a calm and respectful and honest manner, not out of anger and defensiveness. If she is just complaining, then listen and validate the complaint, that's valuable feedback for you about what she is really unhappy about. If she is being verbally abusive, establish your boundary.
I wouldn't tell her "I'm not going to argue, I don't want to argue" etc. That sounds like conflict avoidance (ie. you are too weak to deal). Choose not to argue by letting her vent and then validating the parts of her venting you think are legit, while letting slide the things that aren't, or setting boundaries if you absolutely must.
It takes a great deal of self control, but you sound like someone who can handle it.
Regarding knowing what you want, I can't help you there sorry. I'm all in for my W and D4 so it is not something I've had to consider.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Yes, always act happy even if things suck and try to wait for her to make contact first and try not to respond immediately. You have to take things slow, believe me.
If you haven't ask about MC you might start looking into that. Getting them back is the easy part, keeping them is where the real work comes in. My W came back twice and is gone again right now. You just never know.
Seriously you must have great patience, for her to leave & come back a few times - where do you draw the line because once they've established that they can leave and come back repeatedly, don't you just become a revolving open door - what will make her stay if she knows she can pick up & leave anytime and come back anytime because you'll always be there waiting?
Doesn't that mess with your heart? It would definitely hurt mine enough to say enough is enough, if you're going to leave & come back all the time, next time you leave, don't come back.
Don't respond to a text unless there is so reason to. Don't rush to do it too fast. Don't initiate calls or texts unless there is a need, probably kid related.
You don't have to appear happy. But, act as though you are ok. And eventually you will be ok. You are not trying to fake anything, you are trying to improve your own sense of yourself. She does NOT have control over your emotions!
The analytical person in me keeps thinking though that if I let her argue with me or be mean to me and not stand up for myself and just keep my mouth shut and not argue back with her, I'm telling her that it's ok to do those things and I'm definitely not ok with arguing, bad mouthing, bad attitudes, etc.
It's ok to stand up for yourself. This is called establishing boundaries. The strong wall part is all about how you go about it (not getting sucked into fighting, getting defensive etc). If she does stuff that anyone with self respect would not tolerate, I personally would tell her. Establish the boundary, but do it in a calm and respectful and honest manner, not out of anger and defensiveness. If she is just complaining, then listen and validate the complaint, that's valuable feedback for you about what she is really unhappy about. If she is being verbally abusive, establish your boundary.
I wouldn't tell her "I'm not going to argue, I don't want to argue" etc. That sounds like conflict avoidance (ie. you are too weak to deal). Choose not to argue by letting her vent and then validating the parts of her venting you think are legit, while letting slide the things that aren't, or setting boundaries if you absolutely must.
It takes a great deal of self control, but you sound like someone who can handle it.
Regarding knowing what you want, I can't help you there sorry. I'm all in for my W and D4 so it is not something I've had to consider.
Thanks Mike, my question was when you detach, act as if your life is fine even is she isn't there, you will continue to live your life, you won't be waiting or pursuing her, etc. After a while, doesn't that kind of detachment set in a different feeling like it's ok to let go, it's done, time to move on.
Honestly I do want a marriage, my marriage with my wife to work - I love her, I've always loved, heck I'm still in love with her if you can believe it - the feeling never left me, I've never been unfaithful, even during the separation but after a while and being separated for so long, isn't it just natural for you to get used to living apart and not want to be together because you get used to living separately and when new people come into your life randomly, it becomes easier to entertain the idea of starting with someone new. Plus after a while of pursuing a dream that doesn't seem to want to materialize, you start having ideas about giving up or letting go, letting her go with love because you didn't have what was required to make her happy and that is why she left.
