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Is there a womens support group that you could join? maybe one through a local church?

Dear Bluerain
Thanks so much for your insight and post......Looking at support groups as we speak.....your help and support have given me so much in this crazy time.....

I have just woken up here in Ireland and the first thing that has come to my mind is deceit; I was wanting to share that with you all.

My H has just gone through the most amazing set of lies and deceit I can think of. firstly, I had no idea that he was so unhappy n our R; yes he had vented and expressed huge frustration and resentment at my study and work versus what he believed I should have been doing re our D but there was never any moment where he spoke directly with me re his feelings about US, about our relationship. I had often pleaded with him to talk with me about our R, but he always refused; his sole focus was a our D and what needed to be done there. Surely parents have an untold responsibility to safeguard their children and to parent and love them but what about safeguarding your marriage; is that not a gift that you give your children?
Instead I was presented with a fait a complis. My H snorts at my suggestion that this has come out of the blue; he thinks that he gave me thousands of chances; but I am a perceptive person and would have noticed even a few let alone a thousand.
He lied and withheld this information and, of course, the beginning of his R with OW.
When he first said that he was leaving (Jan 2) I asked him whether there was someone else. He of course denied it strenuously. He of course was heavily into EA/PA at the time. the period in Jan when there was sexual contact with me, every second day, and her at the same time was again deceit........having his cake or malicious damage......I still feel so violated where that is concerned. Lies and more lies. I found boxer shorts in Jan, when I asked him he said he had bought them because his other jocks had been put through the wash and had turned pink! Lies again.
I was told that he was going to Co/Kerry to help write some of my PHD thesis for me with space and quiet (my H is a writer/playwright/theatre director). Yes, he did manage to get some work done but was obviously time challenged by the presence of OW on the same trip. Incidentally.during those three days away our daughter was extremely ill with a gastro flu......
When he walked at the end of Jan he basically told me that:
I had no right to know anything about his personal/private life
No right to know who he was seeing in his life
NO right to know where he would be staying
No right to know any of his movements
The only way I could contact him from now on was via his mobile phone.
He then proceeded to lie (and is still perpetuating this but to a lesser extent) that he was living with either one of his two sisters or a mutual friend (female) who works in the office next to him. unbelievably he is still maintaining that he is still only staying (has not admitted to actually living) with OW SOME of the time.
When I was in hospital, literally in agony and on pethadine/morphine and I confronted him about the affair he couldnt bring himself to be honest with me, instead blaming me, yelling at me for being unreasonable and storming out of the hospital room as I lay literally helpless in bed. On the eve of my second op (approx March 15) when my Mum confronted him with the affair the only thing that he could say was ' but I am still married, its not as if I am NOT her H)!!!!!!!!! Lies, lies
The period when I was ill in hospital (about one month) he was carrying on a double life. Staying in our home minding our D, often sleeping here. My Mum who was with me in the hospital from 10-10 every day would return home where he would get her a glass of wine and something to eat; then often leave to go back to OW to sleep with her, thinking everyone would think that he was staying with family. He was visiting me in hospital at first, kissing me on the face, hugging me, holding me, stroking my face, kissing and stroking my hand, kissing my wedding ring, and then leaving and sleeping with OW.
It has only been in the last two weeks that he has fully admitted he is in a new R. Even then he has told lies (it isn't significant, they may not be together in a couple of months then denying that he ever said this, then not outwardly admitting its significant either).
He has lied to our D about where he has been living. He lied to our D about going away Valentines Day weekend, changing his story about his destination three times (geographic amnesia?) and in the end telling her, when he had already been there for a couple of days, that he was in Galway with friends????? Our D7 was crying, she didnt understand. He told her he could be contacted on his mobile.
H has lied about his financial sitch, saying he is F%$£@ed financially yet earns around 1300 euro every 10 days where I have no income until September when I return to my job and am having to pick up bits and pieces of freelance work and rely on my family to survive.
My question is, how can a person whose whole life in the last few months has been based on lies and deceit, function if not in denial.
His current life is based on secrecy, lies, deceit. His relationship with OW has been and to some extent probably still is based on deceit.
At the end of the day, whether WAS or MLC (I suspect both at this stage), surely the only person that he is truly deceiving here is himself.
He has a home here with his child and wife and instead he is deceiving himself that we do not exist and that his new home is with OW.
Do any of you have any insight here?
I x

Blurain,
In answer to your last post; I cant imagine what she must be thinking in general let alone her being stated as the OW in court.
I would be more than happy to state her name in the legal arena (she is already on my police report as the person that my husband is now co-habiting with).
As a woman I could no more break up a family than fly t the moon, no matter what the man is telling me (my W and I havent had a M for years, she is mentally unhinged and unstable, we have been leading a separated life for years, I am alone and upset, I have been treated like a doormat for 5 years and I am not going to put up with it any longer, I fear for the safety and welfare of my D7 in my W's care etc).
I am sure that she thinks that she is doing him a huge favour and that she is saving him from a life worse than death.
They cant afford to look squarely at the destruction that they leave behind. If they did they would have to look at themselves. Yes, they would have to be under duress but it would seem that they are intent on making it work.
I couldnt be with a man that was going through this; I would be worried about his ability to be present to any form of relationship.

That is the thinking of all rational people. Sometimes though the neediness or chemical imbalance causes us to behave ina moraly reprehensible way. One hopes that common sense eventually seeps through to both parties.

With regard to H lies and deciet and foggy memories - The WAs is notorious for rewriting history. Thing is, eventually there comes a time when a memory is recalled and it is not the bad made up, foggy memory and that is when I think these WAS suddenly look back.

As they say believe nothing what they say and only 50% of what they do.

Pollyanna,

Thanks so much for your post............everything you have said makes so much sense..........I am trying not to believe anything he is saying and half of what he does........he is very convincing though........a wordsmith if ever I have seen one.

A few other gems about me that he has said in the last four months:

In a rage; "I never, ever, ever, ever, ever want to be married to you again
I will never, ever, ever. ever be in an intimate relationship with you again
My love for you is dead, if it was just damaged then it could be fixed but once something is dead it can never come back.
I have been treated like a doormat for five years and I am not going to put up with it any longer.
You have subjected me to mental cruelty over the last five years.
You are not the right woman for me to be married to.
I am very sad. I have to now re-establish my life which isn't easy.
Our D will get over this; kids do.
Relationships break up all the time.
(On hearing that I was intending to stand for my marriage but admitting that it would be lonely): now you know what it is and will be like t be unloved and alone.
You say you love me; well, I reject your love, I dont believe it and I dont believe that you can love healthily; what you have is not love but attachment.

AND.........

two days after leaving me: "so what are you going to do for the rest of your life?" and "your grief process is none of my concern".

I think in these sorts of situations people can be friends, I am with XW (his first marriage). But in our situation we cant be friends because you obviously love me and probably always will and I am saying NO!! (pushing me away with his hands).

Yet,in the same period:

You have a beautiful heart and soul.
You are the most desirable woman I could ever imagine being with
If we were having sex it would be the most fantastic sex I could ever imagine.
You are my soul mate; we are connected at a very basic level.
You will always be a part of me.
I think that you are right, love never dies.
I see such a cataclysmic change in you and I now see the woman that I have missed and wanted for the last 5 years. This is the biggest tragedy and sadness of my life.
....................................
Boy oh boy..........any advice/comments?

He has no idea whats going on. Plain and simple. He is wallowing in a huge mess that he has made. He doesnt know how to back out, or to move forward. Does he hurt you or his new lover who is producing all of these fabulous new endorphins for him, or make you hurt even more? I think that this is a big part of the reason that they encourage you to avoid being desperate, to look great, to feel great.

Pollyanna is absolutely right, when they are going through reasons that they should WA, they obsessively go over and over reasons that they were unhappy, and eventually, they beleive it, every bit of it. They only remember the negative, and ignore any existence of the positive.

The nice thing about a MLC, is its temporary, much like the A! You need to decide where and who you will be when he comes out of his fog. Move on, Im not saying to give up on your M, but dont stagnate right here. Get on with your life, finish your schooling, keep making decisions that you can be proud of no matter what happens in your M, be the strong fabulous woman that you want your child to grow into. Dont let his bad choices make you do something that you cant abide by.

I didnt see any positive movement in my M until A) the A crashed and burned, and B) I told him to bring his papers over. Not that the movement has been extraordinary, but we have come a LONG way in a year.

I also wanted to say that as far as him letting you know that he was unhappy. I realized about 4 months after H left that he HAD been trying to tell me. But he didnt do it in a way that I needed, just like I didnt listen in a way that he needed. We were equally responsible. That being said... He does NOT get an excuse for having an A. Absolutely not, what he did will never be ok, but now I understand his desperation, but not how he could start seeing a OW, that will never be justified.

I hope that things are getting easier, I hope that you can find something that gives you strength.

Everyone here is speaking the truth. Many of our WASs lead double-lives and once confronted they immediately turn it around so that it is you who made them leave. Whether it's a MLC or not, that's what happens. In a way it's so they are justified in their minds what they are doing.

My W continued to lie to me about her feelings towards the OM until I found a note in her car about them.

That's why it's important to not concentrate on our spouses, but ourselves. If you try to stop and analyze everything they do, you are going to drive yourself crazy. Be happy and content in YOUR life and don't let your H drag you down.

Dear Stuck/Blue rain,

Thank you so much for everything........you have given me great comfort and the more that i think about what is happening the more I realise just how out of control my H is and how much I need to detach and GAL; also to protect myself and my D.

My H sent me a letter via his solicitor (email) yesterday morning informing me, with about 4 hours to spare, that he would be collecting our D7 from school at 2.40pm and returning her to put her to bed around 9pm. He did this last Friday and I let it go thinking that it was a one of incidence in direct relation to the barring order hearing last Thursday. It was obvious yesterday that he has such a huge amount of rage towards me and will proceed as and how he wishes, regardless of the upset he is causing people.

I refused this via responding email/letter as I had arranged for our D to have friends over in the afternoon. I also thought enough is enough; I am not going to be treated like this, no more. I decided to go down to her school early as he did not respond and I did not want a repeat performance of Friday. I arrived at about 2.15 to find him already there, on his phone (prob his L). I got out f teh car and calmly discussed things with him. I looked at him, he looks strange in teh face, distorted and troubled. He agreed that he did get the message and thankfully backed off, I am not sure whether his L told him to or not. He accepted the state of play.....but was so raging underneath, he was simmering.I asked whether he would be picking our D up today (tuesday) and taking her till bed time as proposed by me in my email on Friday to him; he said in a tense voice through gritted teeth that I would hear from his solicitor on the matter. he then drove off.

why is this man doing this; is he losing his mind? I am worried that our D is being affected now; this morning she wet her bed for the first time in 4 years........last night she was sobbing saying that she was confused about her Daddy not being here any more; she was also crying and asked me what were we going to do about Daddy? I asked her what she meant and she asked me whether she would live or die and whether we would be poor. I am so worried about this; the more chaos and upset he causes the more he seems to be disinterested. and the more I am convinced that he has committed to the OW and he is becoming more and more detached from me and my D. He doesnt even speak to her now, no phone calls, no contact, unless he has her in his access times. He woudlnt know how she is going or what she is doing.

I am also concerned that he will be trying to take D to OW house, where she has two teenage sons 11 and 14. I am vigilant about protecting her against all of this upset.

Would really appreciate some feedback; I feel like I am in such a nightmare.Does he honestly know what he is doing?

Shannon,

First off the man is acting like a director trying to control every aspect of what he considers his. ie daughter. Right now he has no concept of others.

As far as OW I would put that thought so far out of your mind right now because he is definately a very unhappy man or he wouldn't be acting this way.

You need to determine where to draw that line and fight for yourself and D. I found myself in this same sitch 12 years ago with my kids mom. She tried much of the same tactics even removing youngest from his grandma who was daycare and not letting me know where he was. Many times she pushed and I finally said I wouldn't be pushed into the corner without fighting. We ended up in a trial which she lost and looked the fool.

Don't be bullied! Stay as calm as can be, but not a doormat.

Once again he sounds like an angry miserable stressed out kid right now. File it away and pray for him. Must really suck to be in his skin.

Stay strong and my prayers are with you.

cire

Thank you so much Cire for your words of support and encouragement. Just to be reminded y people of these things means so much. Sometimes when he is being nice and charming itseasy to forget that he is unhappy; he acts as if everything is exactly how he wants it.

My little girl is struggling, there is no doubt about it. She spent quite a few hours with my H yesterday and that seems to have calmed her down a little; she loves him very much and it does alleviate her distress to some extent when she sees him.

My main aim is that D7 is stable and secure. Thats really the most important thing.
I heard from my H yesterday; after a period of disgusting behaviour he is now using the tact of extremely nice and accommodating and unfortunately I became short with him He was ringing from his ex wife's house in relation to our D's school play tomorrow. I rang him back there and told him that I was more than happy to speak with him but not at that number. I do not feel comfortable ringing there under the circumstances.

I am struggling personally with so much. Am trying to keep it in my mind that it is MLC but my fear is that all of this isnt. He moves from the OW to ex wifes house to our house with ease. He has chosen the OW as his preference. There is nothing I can do about that. But it hurts to think that after ten years he can not see any worth in staying with me and working on our commitment.

I know OW is irrelevant here, what is important is my life. I am trying to live it in the best way that I know. But I simply do not understand..... he seems so happy and settled with her; its his silence on the topic which makes me realise just how serious it is for him.

I also accept that his family have gone; I was always so close to them and it just seems bizarre that we will have nothing to do with each other now, especially my step daughters and my sister in law, H's sister, who is dying. I haven't seen/spoken with her since middle of January.

All I wanted was to be in a happy committed marriage and have my family around me.

Has anyone else had this experience before of OW taking your place and you being obliterated? How did you cope?

I go to court today for an informal private meeting with H and solicitors to try to sort out access. I hope that we come to a fair and honourable agreement.

Every day that goes by I think to myself I dont know what has happened. I never wanted this. I miss and love the husband that I thought was there. Yet I am having to go through this process of separation because he wants a new life? I was never given a choice and yet he has cruelly defined all of our lives with not a bat of an eyelid.

Guess I am tired of the struggle and rejection today