Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers Over the Shock - Detaching and GALing 3

I've gotten it before as well - just never thought I would get it from my W.

I've gotten hit on by guys in bars and asked that question by a few random people in my past. I had a good friend that I used to hang out with and every now and then people would assume we were a gay couple.

I think part of it is the looks - I am average height, thin, conservatively but well dressed (no backwards baseball caps, etc) with a young-looking face and a short but stylish haircut. My "NiceGuy" tendencies mean I am fairly soft-spoken and polite, don't use rude language or tell rude jokes, etc. I have always preferred to be doing something rather than watching TV, so I never learned to like watching football, etc.

Some people just add it up and say "GAY!"

I meant to say that I don't disagree with any of them. In fact, in each case I can see exactly what in our R she is referring to.

Thinker, I have actually thought of that possibility happening in the minds of WAW's when the h would be making such a huge 180 in appearances and GAL. I don't think I've ever mentioned it on board b/c I did not want any of the LBH's to run from doing what the DB book advised......and which I support (I might add). I believe it is due to her confused state of mind she has been in for this length of time, the OM's influence on the subject, and the strain of your MR. I do not believe for a second that you said or acted in any way to justify her questions about your sexuality! It was very low and mean of the OM to even make any suggestive statement.

Let me try to clearify my opening statement. It is the complete turn-around that scares the spouse. You thought you were doing all the right things to GAL, look your very best.......and instead of hanging out in the wrong places with the wrong people.....you chose to hang out with your male friends. That is what you SHOULD DO! If you were to hang out with a female friend......that is not good.....so.....

I'm sure you feel like the world has been pulled out from under you with all this new revealation! I hope you can mark it down to her state of mind and think of her lack of logically thinking in everything else that has come up.

As far as the lack of passion, I think maybe that was why she made the move toward you for sex that last time. As I said before, it was probably a "test"......however, I never thought it was that kind of test! I think she was probably testing her own "passion" or lack of it. (Remember, in her mind....she has felt that the M was dead for a long time.) I think I understand the term of mechanical but it seems to me if there is an orgasm, there would be some feelings of passion. I wonder if it is not "romantic" feelings she is thinking about. Maybe things are too routine in the bedroom. I don't know........just seems that you would have to be turned on to reach that climax and maybe some can do that without passion. Maybe I've dreamed about it for so long I don't even know what "passion" is any longer.

It was hitting below the belt for her to turn to the OM. Please don't think I am taking up for what she did b/c I certainly am not........I am trying to understand her. Maybe......if OM had not been contacting her and then she did feel panic over all of this that she was sincere in wanting to know his opinion of what you were doing. Not that it was the right choice for her to do by any means......I'm just saying that who knows what her real intenions may have been. She may have been thinking of him as a "male friend". It was wrong for her to do that. There is always a great chance that is was her "excuse" to contact OM, as well......and she happen to get caught!

I'm not being very helpful and I'm sorry b/c I really wished I could say something to help your feelings right now. If the two of you go on the family vacation, you will have your work cut out for you b/c I think things will be very strained between you. I hope that SHE will get her act together and see how stupid she has been and what a terrible mistake she made by trying to contact the OM. BTW, did you ever tell her that everything you did was you trying to deal with the plate she had handed you? Not that she would understand that, and you don't want to explain how DBing works.......not if you ever want to use the principles again b/c it won't work if she knows the game plan.

So sorry this has all backfired in your face. I'm not sure what to make of all of it, or if she is telling the truth or finding a way out of the trap she was caught in. Sure hope you can rest and not continue to stay upset b/c you know who you are and it was her silly assumptions. As I said, it takes a WAW a long time for her brain to start thinking correctely again.

Sandi

You are right Sandi. It is probably not right to say STILL pursuing, but I definitely started pursuing again. I really backed off for a long time, but felt that what I was doing was not working. I backed off completely, she backed off in return, and the net result was that we were not even ever talking to each other - "see, we never even talk, we have nothing in common". Now I see that my change away from that was not right either. I need to find a way that I can be openly communicative - keep the channels open - but not be pursuing.



Agree 100%. That's the best part about the boards!


Completely!



I now know that she was doing exactly that. Trying to see if it would work and how she would feel. She told me last night that she cried afterward because it still felt "empty".




I am very conflicted here because the IC work that I am doing (on myself, FOR MYSELF) has a lot to do with relaxing, giving up control and enjoying myself. If I do that with my W around, however, she hates it. It is a real struggle for me.

I think she is also referring to our MC sessions. In the first ones, I turned into a puddle of remorse while she sat there, shrugged her shoulders and said "I dunno". Recently, she has started talking, getting emotional, and I am pretty detached and calm during the sessions. She HATES that too.

Over the past couple of weeks, I have been trying to let her see my emotions, but not be overwhelmed by them (in front of her) - ie simply saying "I am angry" or "I am frightened because..."

It is really hard. When I was Full-on PMA, I could let anything she did or said brush right off me. Now that I am facing my own emotions, she makes me angry much more often.



Agreed. There is still hope.
I was fairly despondent last night - thinking to myself that I am not sure how much more of this I can take and how much longer I can last.



OK, will do.


Yes, it did. And Yes, I did.

It will not work like that. You must not try to assist the process that SHE HAS TO WORK THROUGH!

I really feel that the MC got to be too much pressure and a souce of anger for her... Unless she is the one to say something about returning to the MC, I would not mention it to her. I am thinking maybe she needs to go along for a while and you should not be with her.
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For now, we are each doing IC with the marriage Counselor - that's just the way it happened. She talked yesterday about switching to a different C because she feels funny about seeing the same person as I am.



It was really hard. DBing while living in the same house with and being in constant contact with the person is much harder than some people think. Although I don't wish to get separated, I sometimes think "this would be so much easier if we weren't together all the time"

I do need to find a way to turn it from a sprint to a marathon - the sprint is burning me out.

Yes, I understand why you would feel that you had to do something different if the two of you were getting farther apart and not even talking. But this time, you may need to just try to not say the ILY's.



Even though I was the AWAW I think I can understand how miserable it is for both sides. That is one reason I am concerned about the family vacation coming up. You have battle fatigue and I am wondering if "Thinker" needs a vacation for himself. I know that would not set well with the wife and kids, but maybe a weekend somewhere to get away? You have been under a lot of stress. Even though I was ready to "shake you" about the pursuing, I do understand and I am concerned for you. As a poster told me once, you are the one here to talk to. If I could get my hands on "her".......well, best that I can't. No, I just carrying on b/c I do know how it is to be in a strained R for a long time! I know very well. But I agree that even though a S might be easier at this moment......I don't think that is the answer and it only takes reading the posts from those who are S to know how miserable they are. It is your emotions that are drained and your nerves stressed that is talking and that needs an escape for a while.

Thinker, even though she says that ML was "still" empty........and she talks as if she will never be attracted to you again, remember that was how Puppy's wife was in their MR. In fact, if you were reading his stitch.....he had come to the place that it just was never going to happen b/c she was not attracted to him and could not help it. They were ready to call it quits, but now it is as if they are newly weds again!

I know you are sick of hearing people tell you that it takes a long time, but I have "lived" from those shoes, sweetie, and it does take so long. That is why I am wondering if a weekend off by yourself (or longer if you can swing it) wouldn't do you some good. You need to get energized and regroup and do whatever else to prepare to hang in there longer. I am concerned that she will be ready to tell you on a regular basis that you should see how the two of you have nothing in common anymore and should call the M off. I think she may see this last blow up as "proof". But it was not proof. It was misjudgement on her part. I hope she may have said something in the conversation the two of you had that indicated she is willing to try a little longer.

I hope you will give yourself a break for a few days and as I said before.....detach emotionally and physically as much as possible from her so that you can "let down". BTW, you do have the right to be angry! Holding that inside is not good and is why I have always suggested doing some type of activity that will help to punch, run, or do something physical to get the frustration and anger out.

Do you find it interesting that she was beginning to get emotional in the MC sessions? Did she tell you why? I am wondering if she was not reaching that place of remorsefulness when she got this stupid idea of why you made so many changes. I don't know.....just guessing. If she is "still" talking about seeing a counselor.....maybe she wants to. Just hope it is a marriage-based one or he/she will have her leaving you in no time flat! Just like other people......there are some good ones out there and then some that are no good at all.

Well, hopefully my computer will stay well for a while and I won't get behind again. I want to be here whenever you need to talk. I won't pull your ears off next time if you want to just want to put your feeling out there and get mad about everything. Oh, before I forget to ask.....has she said if she would "not" contact OM anymore? I know I said not to bring the subject up to her....but wondered if it was mentioned before you posted about everything that happened. I can't remember at the moment if she "did" make contact or claimed that she was just trying and he never replied. If he really did not reply.....that is good. In fact, if he moved on to some other woman and never replied again....she would get ticked and that would be good b/c then she would get him out of her head and not think of him as even a male "friend" to turn to. Okay.....don't mean to beat a dead horse and I know you're tired, so I'll stop for now unless you have something to ask.

Take care,
Sandi

Thanks Sandi,

I do have a question to ask you (and all) regarding transparency (good or bad right now).

3 months ago when everything blew up, I threatened to expose OM to his W, he ran, etc, my W and I agreed to mutual transparency - even signed the agreement. She agreed to leave the passwords to her computer, email accounts, etc open. I agreed to do the same.

Now I can see that this transparency is creating more resentment in her than it is causing problems. In her mind, I am now sitting in my office all day reading her mail. I'm not. Most of the time I stay completely away from it because I don't want that type of codependency for me. The most I have ever done (Once in the past 2 months - during the blow up about her renewed contact with OM) was to open her mail account and run a search for his email address. I found nothing.

She says "I hate the fact that you are reading my mails to all of my friends" - I can't reassure her that I am not.

She has also been advised by her doctor to start journaling. She want's to use her computer for this, but does not want me reading her journal (nor would I want her reading mine).

If I try to explain that the transparency is for the purpose of restoring trust between us in order to give our M a chance, she says "You are not listening to me! I don't know if I want to save our M!" or something similar.

Things have gotten bad enough that she tried to test me -- planting something for me to read and then watching for me to find it and get angry. I wondered why she was acting weird for 2 days, and she finally just came out and asked me if I had read it.

So for now, she has not directly asked me to release her from the agreement, but I know that is what she wants.

I am also afraid that the agreement and transparency right now is causing more problems than it is solving. With it, she is feeling controlled by me, even when I am not controlling. Without it, I might be able to detach more, and she would feel less invaded and more private. It might give her the space to think rather than resent me.

She might also use the privacy to restart an A with OM or with someone else, but (and this is hard for me to really admit) I can't stop that. I don't think the transparency would stop it either.

So here is the question:

I am seriously considering sitting down with her for a few minutes, tearing up the transparency agreement, and REQUESTING that she change her passwords - not telling her she can, because then I may be angry that she actually did it. I would request that she change all of them and put a password on her computer.

Pro's: It would give each of us some much needed space, and may relieve some of the tension between us. It could allow her to start trusting me again. It could allow me to let go.

Con's: It could simplify the her trying to maintain contact with OM, could extend or increase the A, and could increase my own lack of trust in her.

I know there are lots of conflicting opinions regarding transparency and affairs. What do you all think?

Still musing and journaling:

Why is it that I want transparency in our R?

The easy answer is that I believe that there is no place for secrecy in an R.

But is that so?

Or is it really that I am confusing this with my own need for control? If the real purpose is that I want to use transparency to control my W, then there is no place for this, and it is I that need to change.

I'm thinking that it is the latter.

I want the transparency because I do not trust.
I need to trust because I am not detached. I am "fused". If she leaves, she takes part of me with her.

If I were truly detached, truly "differentiated", then I would have no need for the transparency. I could simply let go.

Then detatch anyway, and leave the transparency thing the way it is!

My issue is not the transparency, it's that I think it is currently artificially mandated by me, and detested and resented by my W as snooping and control. Her mistaken belief right now is that I am constantly watching her and reading all of her mail. There is no way that I can prove that I am not, and in fact it IS hard not to. That pressure is driving her away and preventing her from relaxing.

So it's really a question of which does more damage to the R - secrecy and lack of transparency, or resentment over feeling controlled and having ones privacy violated.

It's been my experience that one can not say or do anything right with a WAW when they are dealing with their emotional turmoil and pain. If it's not one thing it's another. They will just find something else to detest and resent you for.