Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy PM Thread #5 - Hope new plan works

Thanks for your encouragement Karen. I don't know if I am anyone to aspire to, though. I am still nowhere with reconciliation so I am not exactly revelling in my successes. I do believe that I am stronger now than when bomb hit and that it is right to continue to live as if he is never coming back.

As for visit to MIL. I AM very busy with work and also trying to write a book so really don't have time to take a vacation with kids to visit MIL. But also, I am thinking that H really needs to step up as a dad as well. If he wants to take them to see MIL then that's great. If he feels that he doesn't have time, that is HIS decision. Anyway, I think it got him thinking about the children's needs for once.

It's the first instance in a LONG LONG time. He has been concentrating on himself for SO LONG and I have been taking care of the kids' needs, he has been off the hook and now at long last I have stepped back and he has to step up. So I am hoping that this will take him out of his 'me, me , me' mentality. I am sure he thinks I am selfish for backing out of this visit. But I am thinking well, too bad, I am starting to think of myself now and not put everyone else first.

LWB, thanks for visiting. Yes, that is how I feel exactly! Only my H has NOT EVEN entertained the idea of coming back so he would never say what I would have to change in order to make that happen. But I get the feeling that he definitely doesn't see a need on his end to change. My therapist says that when a person is resistant to change it's because of either depression or some sort of personality disorder. I am not sure which yet, but most likely depression.




Thank you so much for sharing your words with me. These are gems! It's how I feel but have been unable to express them so well as you. I will definitely try to remember to use these.

H has been lumping his infidelity with his unhappiness with me. Very unfair and unreasonable. Especially since his unhappiness with me is related to my complaints of how he prioritize his work over his family. Well, he is NOW listening to his counsellor on that front and is handling work better. In his words, 'I needed someone with a degree to tell me that I needed to take it easy with work and have some 'me' time.'

So when someone else explains it to him, he takes their advice. When I say it, it gives him an excuse to have an affair. WTF?

He doesn't see this as a conflict of logic. He totally believes it's justification. Fog, fog, fog.

Thanks mdoodles. I know my H doesn't want to feel guilty. In fact, he is so adverse to it that he has himself convinced that he is not guilty.

My work now is to be OK with this. I need to detach more. It is not my job to make him feel guilty and make him see the light. Otherwise I would just be banging my head against the wall.

However, he won't reconsider if he doesn't feel that something is missing.


My BFF said that he doesn't feel loss now. That is why he does not have regrets. It makes sense. He gets the best of both worlds. A single life and parenting only when he feels like it. The Disneyland Dad syndrome.

So, I think moving away will instigate this sense of loss. Maybe he will be OK with this sense of loss. I don't know. Probably he will try to fabricate reasons in his mind to keep blaming me for his loss. Not my problem.

Hi PM,

I am sorry to hear things are not going too well for you, this is the rollercoaster we choose to go on isn't it.


[quote=PositivelyMommy
Thanks mdoodles. I know my H doesn't want to feel guilty. In fact, he is so adverse to it that he has himself convinced that he is not guilty.

My work now is to be OK with this. I need to detach more. It is not my job to make him feel guilty and make him see the light. Otherwise I would just be banging my head against the wall.

However, he won't reconsider if he doesn't feel that something is missing.


My BFF said that he doesn't feel loss now. That is why he does not have regrets. It makes sense. He gets the best of both worlds. A single life and parenting only when he feels like it. The Disneyland Dad syndrome.

So, I think moving away will instigate this sense of loss. Maybe he will be OK with this sense of loss. I don't know. Probably he will try to fabricate reasons in his mind to keep blaming me for his loss. Not my problem.[/quote]

PM,

I agree with you, my W does not feel any guilt whatsoever, in the fog they are in its their way of blocking out some of the root causes of the R they are also responsible for.

They won't reconsider at the moment because they are so sure and focused on the fact they feel they are doing the right thing. The crazy part them believing it is better for us to!

I might be wrong here but I believe we enable our WAS to 'cake eat' as we want to try and reconcile, but in DR'ing we give them the space to fulfil this new lifestyle they have chosen. We try to re-build our lives, but ultimately we want our family units back which makes DR'ing - detaching for instance incredibly difficult when there are children involved.

I am sure one day he will regret and understand his loss. At the moment you, like me cannot for one second see anything other than a fully commited WAS fast tracking to a new life. We must look at mdoodles' post and hope and pray there is light at the end of the tunnel. I am learning the hard way is isn't going to happen over night.

Take care PM.

ps. Please could you look over some posts from the weekend on my Anticipation thread, as I would love some feedback. Bless you, Mark

Doing not so well today. Been pretty down abt the interaction with H. I am very concerned about my kids. Meeting with school counsellors this week to talk about how best to prepare them and help them through. My heart is breaking for them. I don't feel I can depend on H to help me with this burden. I am afraid he just will NOT be here to help us through.

I said to H last night, 'I don't want the kids to see you in a bad light. I don't want this to affect their future relationships with you or with their future partners.' That comment must have seem very judging to him. I see that now but at the time, I didn't quite understand. Now I am kicking myself because he went on the attack on me as retaliation. So bad step on my part. Now he probably thinks I haven't changed a bit.

I only have a brief moment to post PM, but I just wanted to say that I personally think you were awesome. You set boundaries that needed to be set, if you think you were harsh it was because you had to be. Honestly nothing you wrote was anti-DBing imo.

If he went off on one it was because he is having to face reality and it is the natural consequences of his choices.

Don't beat yourself up because honestly there is no need to.

Jx

Well PM,

Just got back from "the family trip" and will post about it later on my thread. (But It was good.)

In my sitch, as you may recall, h moved thousands of miles away "To check things out" in adventure land. He'd visit every few weeks. He got very lonely. When he was here, I did the whole "Contrast the warmth/fun/laughter/comfort/love of home, with whatever he had elsewhere" thing. It worked. It was a year apart. So, that sucked.

True, your h would have to think that if he chose to come back, you would not make him jump an impossible number of hurdles or throw the A in his face in every argument. I don't think you are giving that impression to him BUT he may feel it anyway and that's b/c he fears a lot of things right now AND b/c he wants to justify his not returning. But when you are really gone...we'll see.

I think your decisions have been spot on and you have more patience than I would have, b/c as far as I know, for us there were no OW. If so, they were either ons, (doubtful due to nature of H's work and disease issues), and I don't think OW b/c h was in a small town where it was known that I existed as he told them I was "going to join him there soon" so as far as those up in the tundra, h was fully married the whole time. You have endured a lot.

You have grown a lot. As for the kids and what to say. That's a tough one for the c's to advise on. I know that in this state they say not to bad mouth the other parent (it's called "parental alienation") and it's so harmful that here the courts frown on it greatly. It can cost you custody rights. It's bad for the kids b/c they know they come from both of you so when one bashes the other, it's like part of them is bad. Hard to explain. But the idea that they'll never figure things out is stupid on his part. It is WHY he does NOT want OW ever to meet them. Then they'll figure it all out. That's it in a nutshell in mho. What else could it be? Seriously.

You, on the other hand, will be "allowed" to date as you are a healthy woman who has the right to have a partner in life. The kids have the right to have a healthy available male role model in their lives. With an absentee dad, I feel that a new man is more justified down the road. It's different if their real dad is around and sees them a lot and reliably. And is honest. Your h is none of those things right now. Sure, your kids will need to take a lot of time to adjust to the new sitch and my c told me not to introduce a new man into their lives until if and when I was "75% sure" that New man would likely be part of my life AND that the kids would have "reasonable veto power" (meaning that if any rational reason existed for them to not like or accept new man, he would have to go. Kids' first. I agreed. The irrational part would be if the kids didn't like the new guy b/c they thought ex h would come around and they were still waiting for that. If it's not going to ever happen but they don't know b/c your h won't ever tell them of OW, then that's on him and you can figure this all out). If I had dated and met a nice guy (and I know for a fact that they are out there and perfectly willing to date a woman with kids, especially if there isn't a financial burden b/c your h will pay something in support, correct?) ANYHOW...yes if I had met a new guy and h and I did not work out, then I'd date him a long time before 1) letting the kids even know I was dating and 2) date him a long time before introducting him to them. I'm talking 6 months to a year. And the dating would not even start for some time after the move or the divorce, etc. So the kids would probably think of and discuss me dating FIRST. I mean, I bet they'd bring it up before I would. That'd be a nice signal. Who knows?

In sum, I applaud your actions and attitude. It won't feel right or comfortable all the time, so you're entitled to some down days. In your sitch, as in mine, the cake eating is so comfortable, the only way they can snap out of it IF They ever can, is by doing what you are doing, moving on with or without him. In a very real sense which you already know, your h's actions no longer run this train. You are doing what is best for you and your children. You are taking charge of your life and no longer letting his choices, or lack thereof, dictate how you feel every hour of your life. Thank God! Sure it'll be tougher for him to come home to you in a way. But you see, in a sense that's not true. he'd be leaving OW to come home and that's easier b/c he wouldn't have to face her and he could start fresh, minus your family. My family was alright with my choice to take him back (as far as I know,) b/c of what he said at the time.

But more important, and crystal clear, is that a year of what you were doing was getting you nowhere with him OR your life. At least now, the second part, YOUR LIFE, is moving forward. And not so shockingly, your R with him HAS improved in general.

Focus on the kids and your future. When he brings up the part about how this is your fault, I have a suggestion you may like or words to the effect of---

"Look, I won't ever throw your past actions in your face, or make you look bad to the kids. But don't revise our marital history as if I have amnesia. I owned my part in our problems and if I could do things over, I'd do them differently. But you chose to leave me and our children. Even you know the truth no matter what you tell yourself. I've let go of it, and have changed a lot. I won't blame you for my choices, and You need to stop blaming me for your choices. It's unhealthy for our children and it's grossly unfair to me."


And then get back to parenting discussions. Tell him you won't ever block his access to the kids, and you encourage as much contact as possible between them, but you'll need him to only make promises to them that he can keep. Stress to the kids what will be good about the move and how you'll help them adjust with friends and the school. (He'll really need to be reliable). I did tell my h by action, that I would not count on him to show up if it meant I had to arrange things for him. It was up to him to get time off and make something happen.

I didn't like the idea that if h suddenly showed up one weekend, the girls would have to stop their lives to have sudden daddy time all on his terms. Why? B/C THEY resented it as it disrupted their routines, which he had forced them to change by HIS leaving. So we started to make our plans and if he showed up, I explained to him that he needed to communicate and plan in advance. e.g. they were going to a play and only had their tickets, or whatever. This past 3 weeks, our trip to Europe was the first time he ever took that much time off since 1987, (when I studied for the bar) and he arranged it all himself. UNPRECEDENTED.

Was it all smooth? No. He got into some old dynamics and was very tense and controlling for a few days and finally we had a private discussion about the trip and in loving terms only DBing enabled me to say, I told him he was blowing it. He really heard me, and said he wanted "to finish strong" and he shaped up. He relaxed! Let all of us vote on what we wanted to do (sounds so obvious but he's a guy who likes to list things to do and keep going non-stop b/c "we're in Venice and must do the following" which, is efficient but sooo NOT relaxing or a vacation like experience for us.

He got it. I was VERY pleasantly surprised. Before the discussion, I thought, "geez this is a disaster. H is an ass. I'm an idiot. He's so alienated from us and such a stranger due to being gone so long"-- but when he privately asked me what the trip was "about", I said "to rebuild your R's with the kids and prove we can be happy and at peace as a family. Just b/c we're okay doesn't mean you're okay with them. No more competing about which direction to go (son22 was just as competitive there) or who was right or wrong. No one gets to be wrong on the trip. It is time to spoil the kids. Not spoil them rotten, but dote on them. It's a vacation and celebration of d20's show closing and going so well, and us going on our first full family fun trip (not about visiting a dying relative "trip") in years...it's an investment."

Dang if he didn't "show up" then. I mean, the change was really fast. Crazy fast. Hope it lasts. Well, sorry for the tangent. I digress.

Back to you. Bravo PM. You are doing the right thing and really, the only healthy thing you could do. Whether it gets him to wake up as a father, or a husband, is no longer the goal. I know you get that now. It'd be a great byproduct, but this is about your life now. Your turn. Your happiness and your children's stability. The one thing you know, is what you were doing did not work and you were unhappy and even your h was too. Maybe the move will give him clarity. Honestly. It did for my h but again, it took time and honestly there will come a time that you'll have to hear some things from your h before you would want to recommit. My h told me at one point he wanted to "be the h he knew he could be" for me and the father he once was for the kids. I really needed to hear that. If your h ever was a good h or good father, you can remind him of those times (just the father part at this point) to encourage him with the kids. And you can casually refer to the good years you guys had as if you are resigned to his idiotic choice but moving along as you are a woman only a fool would leave and your destiny is to be fulfilled. Who knows what his destiny is? Who cares right now?

You will be happy again. You are already getting there. Yourself. You are in charge of your own happiness and that is as it should be. In a very real sense, this horrible nightmare has been a weird type of blessing for all of us. WE are awake now.
((( )))
j-

PM,

As Julia said you handled that situation very well on reading. I am offering my support and will continue to do so. You are doing incredibly well considering the fact you are doing this all on your own.

I admire you and you will do what is right for you and your children.

Take care,

Mark

Thank you all so much JCJ, 25yrsMLC and Mark. I was feeling pretty down and you guys have pulled me up AGAIN. I was second guessing myself because my words were coming from a place of hurt and I thought maybe I had sounded too harsh. But as JCJ said, I had to be harsh and set boundaries.

Yes, H really doesn't think the kids will find out about A. He is THAT naive right now. Fog thinking. So I told him, you know our kids will grow up and they are REALLY smart, they will understand what happened. He didn't like that at all. So in essence I was trying to say that 'you think you have everyone fooled. You don't. I know what happened and the kids will figure it out too. I REALLY want them to have a father but I don't know how to tell them what went wrong without them thinking badly of you.'

So I guess everyone is right here, he has to face reality again and is not liking it. He has been cake-eating so long and not have to deal with any consequences. Well, the consequences are going to be coming on fast soon.

Me, I am imagining living with my family, having a lot more open spaces, going swimming with kids. Can't wait.

25yrsMLC, as always, your analysis was thorough and well-thought out. I am re-reading it again and let you know if I have questions. Thanks also for pointing out how to deal with the kids, it's at the forefront of my mind right now so your input really helps. I DO NOT want to damage them. I hope I can manage.