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Yesterday H spent most of the afternoon at our house. He was there while the kids and I were still out shopping after Nathan's counseling! Texted me that he was there working on the playset...(He got supplies to make Nathan an awesome play set in the yard in K.C., but then started his A the very next week and the playset has been in pieces for 2 years)

He said something in the afternoon about needing to work on his house, he didn't have anywhere to sleep...

That just irritated me, so I said, calmly, "No, that isn't accurate. You DO have somewhere to sleep. You have a home and a family. You don't have somewhere you WANT to sleep..." He did a sort of annoyed nod, but I am not going to feed into his pity parties anymore. He has a perfectly good home/family/wife and if he chooses to leave that then suck it up and deal...

I asked if he was coming to Sydney's party today with my family. My mom hosts it with like 30 or 40 of our relatives, my mom is one of 8 siblings and they all have kids and grandkids...

He said he wasn't planning to. I said that was fine, but was obv. pissed about it by my tone of voice. I said you don't have to go but understand I am no longer making excuses for you at these things. He backpedaled about going and I said I didn't want him to go just to cover things up...

Anyway the rest of the afternoon was fine I mowed and he built. This morning he texts me "Do you mind if I go to the party"

I replied

*I don't mind if you go, it is Sydney's party and you are invited

*My issue is that I never told my family (extended) that we separated. I always thought we would get back together and it would be easier on you if they never knew

*Now you are clear that you don't want to get back together anymore which is fine, your decision. But I am not going to keep lying to my family. I won't broadcast it but I won't hide it either.


I am sure that pissed him off. He doesn't get it, he thinks it is nobody's business and nobody needs to know. And no, people don't walk up and say "How is your marriage". But if my cousin who lives in our town says "Hey you and Dan should come over and we can grill...", "How are you guys liking being back home", etc etc I don't want to just dodge the questions anymore. I am tired of keeping all the plates spinning in that regard.

Hi Bobbi... I take it you still want Dan back and to reconcile your M if possible? You're not done? If you arent, then I wanted to post to you to say I am not sure that you are being polite and businesslike! Or even if that is the best solution for you. And apologies, I dont know how this post got so long!

Its just that.. your dissaproval, critiscism and anger at Dan is palpable and although its understandable, I'm not sure what good it would do you, or how you would win Dan back by letting him see those things?? Perhaps you need to vent here, or with BFF's and not AT Dan? Here are the bits that jumped out at me...


...so what did you say, if anything about this? Did you acknowledge it and thank him, say, gee, thanks for putting that together, thats great.. Nathan will be so pleased... or..?


...so saying all of that achieved what? How did it make you feel? How do you think it made Dan feel? Of course he cant stay with you Bobbi he LEFT, you are S..Its NOT an option for him, so although its galling of him to moan to you.. no, he didnt have somewhere to sleep, other than a hotel? Perhaps it would be better to just say something like "well, I am sure you will figure something out" and then change the subject.

...again, what did this achieve in terms of reconciling with Dan?? How did it make you feel to say those things? How do you think it left him feeling? Guilty? Ashamed? Not good enough? Do you think thats going to make him come home? Have you read the Stonsy book, about men and guilt and shame?? What about DBing and you guys are in a stage where its important to reduce negativity and feelings of guilt and shame? Or have you given up DBing?

Jody, the db coach said to me, in her experience, the number one reason why WAH dont come back to their wives, EVEN if they want to.. is shame. They cant stand it, they cant stand to feel so guilty and ashamed and fixing it feels like too big a mountain to climb. So they stay away.

I assume, he was unsure about the party, because that would mean being thrown into "the lions den" and facing up to what he has done in leaving you - confronting his shame. And because he is still not ok with his decison and FEELS guilty and ashamed, he couldnt face it. You know that right? Is that why you are angry at him? Becuase he is weak and a coward and takes the easy route out instead of manning up and being there for his D at her party? But although you are right.. is it going to win him back to hold the mirror up to his behaviour and make him see that?



And again Bobbi, this helps how? For a start, you say in a text, you have made your decision - has he?? I didnt know that, I'm sorry, I thought he was still in a state of confusion. Has he made a decision, or are you just tired of all this/goading him?

Secondly, you then say "which is fine" - is it fine?? Are you ok about it being over then?? If I were Dan, I would take your cold angry text as the truth, but perhaps it isnt how you really feel? Lastly.. it isnt just for DAN's sake yuo have kept quiet about this S, surely? Is it not also for your sake? Do you feel a bit reluctant to tell them because of how they may view you? Also, becuase it would make it easier to piece, if your family arent putting their negative oar in?? Seems you have colluded with the not telling people thing, so perhaps its not fair to blame him for that? Especially as more blame = more shame, which is not what you want !!

Perhaps you should tell people and get their support, why keep it to yourself? Thats another layer of stress you dont need.

I dont know if any of this helps at all, I'm just trying to be a partial observer and ask you how you think the way you talk to Dan is going to help.. unless, like I said, you are done with DBing/wanting to reconcile?

xxx

Ali,
I promise, I DO hear what you are saying. I have spent a year and a half listening to him, trying to meet his needs, and it is like whack-a-mole. You do one thing right, then something else is 'missing' or 'irritating'....

I have spent the last year covering for him with my friends and family, except my best friend and my parents/sisters. Today at the party my cousin asked if Dan bought that house to rent like I had mentioned in Feb. (he said he may rent it so that was a half-lie at the time)...Nobody else knew about it and Dan was across the park from us (party was at a park) so he didn't hear. I just said yes, he did, he is fixing the lawn and hanging cabinets...

apparently when Dan left he went to tell Sydney bye. He told her he was going to "the house" to work on the playset. Sydney (according to my sister who was standing there) yelled to him "Are you going to YOUR house or OUR house?" He tried to sidestep and repeated that he was going to work on the playset at "the house", and she asked him again, loudly, twice "YOUR house or OUR house?" Apparently a cousin of mine was standing there too and he looked rather confused by that exchange...

So I didn't hand out flyers about our situation or anything.

Re. the playset, I have thanked him several times for building it, told him the kids are so excited. And NEVER mentioned that it took this long to build b/c he was caught up in his A. I thought it but never said it, just thanked him and praised him for building it.

Also I told him three times how much Sydney loved having him at her party and how glad my mom was that he came.

I have read the Stosny book, I get the whole "Shaming" thing. But I cannot watch a dog pee on the rug and say, "Oh, you sweet, good little doggy, I am so proud of you!" I thank/praise him for things that deserve it like coming to the party and building the playset.

But when he complains about having nowhere to sleep he will not find sympathy with me.

And he DID say he was done, Wed night. It was a convo. where I admitted to him that I was angry, that I felt I was lying to Nathan and giving him false hope all this time b/c Dan was lying to me and giving me false hope...(I thought I posted about that here)

Ultimately Dan said, re. his comments that he didn't know how to do this without me, he wanted his new house to be remodeled for me to live there too, etc etc "I meant that at the time I said it" I asked him what had happened in the six weeks since to change his mind. He said he didn't know but he didn't see any way for us to try again, he "didn't have the time to try and fail again at his age". My final comment was just to warn him that when I see Nathan's pain when he realizes that we are over-over, it will kill my love for him.

He asked me not to guilt him with Nathan, that he understood Nathan was torn up and it tore him up to see Nathan hurting. He followed up by saying "it cannot be about the kids it has to be about us and what does it say about the state of our relationship that I am willing at 35 to live at my f'ing parents house not really living but slowly dying".

So when a man says he would rather die a slow death living at his parents house than live with you, how exactly do you praise and validate that?

Sorry don't mean to be defensive, although I know I am...I have tried sweetness and light, happy family moments, etc etc and that doesn't work. I won't be nasty but I won't be a cheerleader for him leaving me either. I will just do life as best as I can and enjoy my kids and do my best...

Hey all...

So Dan came over to the house after the party to work on the playset. I will take a pic when it is done, it is HUGE! Kids love it...

I asked if he would like to eat dinner w/us since he was here anyway and he said yes, he had some chix breasts in the fridge that he bought after church but hadn't grilled. So he kept Sydney while Nathan and I went to karate, then we grilled and ate dinner together. Then he left, terrible headache again (bad allergies and neck out of place)...

He had asked me to park on the drive as he wanted to store playset pieces in the garage, I said fine. Put kids to bed, etc etc. Noticed message on my phone from an hour ago. He was texting me "make sure you lock both basement doors and take your garage door opener in or lock up your car. good night" When he lived here he was the 'door locker/house guarder' so to speak...This is the first time he's brought our safety up since he left. I just replied "I did, thanks for looking out for us".

You guys have known me 18 months almost. You know I am not a bitch and I don't try to make his life miserable. if anything I have hurt myself by stretching too much to compensate for his lack in that regard...Sorry Al your post just stung a little. Maybe I am shaming him, and maybe that isn't the way to 'win' him but kissing his butt didn't work for me either

OH! Kind of funny story I forgot....and by funny I mean pitiful. Guess it depends on how you look at it.

We were at church and Sydney was in the nursery, Nathan was standing between Dan and I. He would nuzzle my arm, then dan's, back and forth. After 10 minutes of this, he grabbed my hand in one of his, and his dad's in the other hand. He was sort of swinging his hands and then he would draw mine in closer to him, then draw dan's in closer to him, alternately. Gradually he pulled on both at the same time. It was very casual-seeming but obv. to me, he was trying to put our hands together without actually putting our hands together!

He stopped when he had to go down for children's church then it was just Dan and I for the sermon/communion part. (kids always go downstairs before that part, so we spend half of church just the two of us)

After church, I said to Dan, "You know he was trying to get us to hold hands, right?" He said "Oh yeah, I noticed..."

Kids think they are so clever...

BBJ,

I think it is important to not enable him. If he is ashamed of his behavior toward his family, and he should be, then he has the opportunity to change it. For you to hide it to save him face is enabling behavior, and will just prolong your agony. He is wrong when he says that your relationship should be about the just the two of you. It is, and should be, about the whole family. It hasn't been about the two of you since the kids were born. You accept reality and think like a mother. He does not accept reality and thinks like a single person. He is not even thinking about two people. He is only talking and thinking about himself. I'm proud of Sydney for standing up for her question. It's a very good question and he needs to answer it.

Hey Bobbi,
No need to be defensive, seriously no judgements on my part and I did say, if you're done DBing, or acting like x, hats fine and I dont blame you. BUT, its just that if you were still trying to reconcile, it seemed to me that perhaps some of the things you say to him are not helping that goal. BUT.. of course you have tried for 18 months and things havent really changed.

I'm sorry, I did read about the nathan convo, but I didnt realise he had put it in such harsh terms, that he would rather live at his parents... I agree with Sara though, as I said, dont collude with him, you go tell whoever you need to that you are S ! Ditto on the "its just about us" comment.. guess he is still in childish me me me mode and not able to think really about how his actions and decisions are affecting you all (or cant allow himself to).

damn straight...I would tell him in no uncertain terms..Danno has screwed around long enough..




BBJ my two cents on the party...these things...just put it out there for him to come..let him know he's welcome..and let it go...he either comes or not....that way..he has to deal witht he fallout from his choices..in other words he skips it then he deals with all the outcomes of missing it...he goes and you guys are visibly not together then he should get to deal with those questions also..

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I have tried the loving/supportive thing for ages and I thought it was time for him to feel the effects of his decisions... it may not seem loving on the face of it but Sara is right I have enabled him to string me along for 18 months and it has gotten me nowhere really.

Hey BBJ,
Just following along. I do not know what your plans are moving forward but I just wanted to add a little something if I may. When we are in the middle of all this, we tend to over analyze and dissect certain things. At the end of the day if things are meant to be for you and Dan, the day to day stuff will not affect his decision. I say "his" because ussually the LBS is pretty clear that they want in.
Personally, I have no idea why you or any one of us LBSs work so hard to retain what seem to be just awful spouses.
In retrospect, if I had to do it all over again, I would walk after the bomb (especially if OP is involved). I think it would have done me and the relationship some good! The result may have been the same, however, the healing process would have been quicker. However, you know I was no different from anyone else here. That is my Monday morning quarterback post.....