Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers The adventure continues--part 3

AF, At this point you know better than anyone what is or is not working in your sitch. I doubt anyone is going to fling stones or 2x4s at you for doing what you are doing. The important thing to remember is to evaluate if what you are doing is having the effect that you want. If so, great, keep doing it. If not, then do something different.

PD,
Thanks for your encouragement.

Got an email from the wife this morning. Here are some parts of it.

Please understand I am not ready for a physical relationship at this point. I am trying to come to terms with the fact I've
let myself get used. All this time you thought it was your fault and I let you think it was. I'm the one who deserves being left. I'm the one who messed up. I'm the one who
doesn't get it until it's too late.

I won't be coming there to stay permanently for a while, but I would like to visit more often and get used to being around you again. I've cut out the flirtations. I've learned my lesson about where they lead. John, I've been promiscuous and seemed to embrace the wickedness of it.

You're so good and loving and steady and strong and I don't deserve you. Not for one minute. You don't deserve someone like me. You deserve so much better. I can never erase this or even try to make up for it. Our marriage will never be the same and you know it. I ruined it.


Do I feel better? A little but I still am hurting plenty. I called her this morning and we talked. She asked some pretty good questions. How can you ever trust me again? I said, well, it will take some work and faith but I know if we work at it together I can and we can have a better marriage than we ever had before.

Won't you think of me with someone else when we ML? No, I won't--that would be stupid and counterproductive to the marriage. If I thought I couldn't get past this then I wouldn't ask you to come home.

Are you doing this just for our daughter? No, I'm doing this for us because I love you and miss you and want to spend the rest of my life with you.

I told her that I'd thought a lot about what she'd told me when she confessed. I told her I knew it was hard for her to come clean and that I appreciated that she had. I told her I knew she made mistakes but that the last mistake was the worst as it was emotional and that was the biggest threat to our marriage. She said how can you be so calm. I said oh, I haven't been but I see little point in yelling at you as it will not undo what has happened. I told her I would have to deal with the anger myself and would find ways to do so. She said you're very understanding and forgiving and I don't deserve you. I asked her to stop saying that she didn't deserve me and to let me decide what I wanted and deserved.

Overall, a good conversation. I guess I can understand her reservations about everything. My healing has started. I did encourage her and tell that when she came home we had to go to counseling--it was mandatory. She agreed. So, hopefully this will be a good day. We'll see. Wish me luck and please continue to provide me with your feedback as it's still not over at this point.

AF,

That woman is SO LUCKY. You have given her the most beautiful love. Acceptance and forgiveness would seem impossible for many men, but you are right there with it. BLESS you.

Your W really needs some help, no matter what happens with your M. She craves something that she doesn't get at home. Whether it's healthy or unhealthy, the root of that craving has to be identified (I think through counseling) so that you can understand and meet her needs. If that work doesn't happen, she'll just stray again.

Perhaps couples counseling and individual counseling (for her) can start now, regardless of her moving home? You've GOT to communicate with her about the root of the problem. She needs help "getting it". Even if she read some of the posts on these boards, she'll get it much quicker than just floating out there acting on whims and being influenced by the actions/pursuits of other men.

As a matter of fact, I would demand it as part of your terms. Counseling, right now, to get down to the bottom of this so you can be her "one and only" forever. What do you think? I'd bet she'd be open to it. At the very least, it would provide a forum for her to flog herself and ease some guilt.

Lucky

You guys are having some great communication, I don't see that you are doing anything wrong.

I do have personal experience on the 'moving' thing. My H has had 2 affairs. 7 months after the first one ended, we moved from Kansas to California. That helped me to let go more b/c I knew he couldn't possibly be seeing her anymore, even in some attempt to be 'friends', or anything. And I do think that it helps to end an affair if they completely stop seeing the other person.

With this more recent affair, he moved 3 hours away before it ended, but it ended 3 months after that. I am sure the distance played a role...

The thing is, the distance will most likely help end any CURRENT affair. But it won't fix whatever happened that LED TO the affair, so there is no reason another one couldn't start up for the same reason. We only went to 3 MC sessions after affair #1, and he was lying and still seeing her at the time. Once the Affair ended, I was naive enough to accept my h's claim that we didn't need counseling, it was over and he would NEVER do it again...he even got me a 3-diamond necklace to symbolize the past, the present, and our new bright future together.

Of course he had his second A 3 years later.

I am not trying to rain on the parade. I am just saying that it is good that you are talking, and moving could be helpful, too. But she must commit to working out the issues with you as well, for lasting commitment.

Take care.

Perfect responses, someone is guiding you. Who are you to tell me what I deserve? Moving will be the end all, one way or the other. If she is stupid she does not follow you, but I think she will.

Burt

Burt,
I hope you're right. Had lunch with the wife today. She had called and left a voicemail that asked if I was going to the gym and she would wait for me to walk in together--ok good. I tried calling back but no answer. So, I sent an email from work saying sorry I missed her call and that we did PT at our unit instead. I called her later to see if she wanted to go to lunch--it seemed like she was reaching out to me. From what I've read, when someone does that this is usually what they want. She said it's secretary's day and I have to go to lunch at this place for work. Do you wanna go? Sure, sounds good. She says I'll come pick you up. Great. So we go and in the car I try to hold her hand. She says I'm not ready for that yet. Ok. She says if we get back together I think we should have a wedding ceremony--I said that sounds good to me, I'd like that. I said what do you mean if? Aren't you coming back home? She said I think so.(Wow, still conflicted--I know it's got to be tough getting over this other guy but really, if it's over, it's over, right?) I let it go as not to pursue. She noticed I wasn't wearing my ring. She said when did you stop wearing it? I said a few weeks ago. She asked why. I said you pissed me off and I took it off. I said if you're coming back home to be my wife I'd be proud to wear it again though.

So we got to lunch and it was a little awkward as she introduced me not as her husband but as John. She had her small group of friends she hangs out with there and I know they all know what's going on as she told me they do. I hope they will encourage her to come home. I kept wondering if one of the guys she was with was at the lunch but from the way she was acting I didn't think there was. I talked with one of her friends and I forgot how funny the wife is. I haven't smiled like that in a while. My face actually hurts--this is what I love about this woman--she knows how to have a good time. She kept leaning over to tell me stuff and did include me in the conversations. At one point she asked me if I was uncomfortable. I said no. So, we left and on the guys from her group shook my hand and told me we would have to do lunch again soon. I agreed and thanked him. This guy has a lot of influence on my wife I know and I hope he encourages her to come home.

Had my IC this afternoon as well. Told my counselor all and asked her if she thought I was a moron. She said no, I think you love your wife. Right now, the question is, how much more can you put up with? That's a good question. She asked me about future sexual relations with my wife and if it would bother me? I told her the wife had asked bascially the same thing and told her no, it wouldn't bother me and I wouldn't think about it as it was in the past.

So, where do things stand at this moment? She hasn't moved back in but I think is considering it very carefully. What do I think is hold her up? I think she is trying to get over feelings she has for OM. I believe that she is very conflicted and doesn't believe that I can or have forgive her. So having said that, what's my game plan?

I didn't give attention in the past, so I'm going to start. It's not going to be a mad rush though. I'll start today with an email and a phone call. When she comes over tomorrow, I'll have a card for her. Baby steps, baby steps.

So, lots to read through, lots to think about and anaylze. Anybody wanna chime in and give me some of what you're thinking?

Just repeating one thought: Marriage/Couples Counseling might be a very good idea for you two to identify and resolve what was at play *before* she ever strayed. Critical.

Also, she has to go through withdrawal from the A, so it is going to take time for her head to clear. Hopefully, she stays the course while she comes down from the high.

What are your thoughts about bringing up the topic of MC with her?

Lucky

Lucky,
I have brought up the topic of MC and she was somewhat receptive to it. She also mentioned today that if we got back together she thinks we should have a wedding ceremony. I think that is a great idea and told her so.




That's what I'm afraid of. How long does this take? Wouldn't it be better if she were here at home? Ugh, this is the part I'm dreading the most.

Hi AF,

According to DanceQueen, it takes a minimum of 30 days, but could take much longer. She needs to break all ties completely for the withdrawal to begin.

I think the idea of having a wedding ceremony is great, AFTER you work through the issues that brought her to stray. Wedding ceremonies are not magical, no matter how lovely and symbolic they are. I'm going to push you for MC. Start now!

Lucky

I agree, issues need to be brought to light and dealt with and then you do the wedding/recommitment ceremony. However, I do agree that once you reach that point, a new ceremony is a good idea. At Retrouvaille (have you heard of it? GREAT for communicating as long as both parties will do it), there are even some passages recommended for re-committing.

I will say it was a heads-up in my case that when my H wanted to come back home, I asked him to renew our vows, even if it was just the two of us and no one else there. He said it 'wasn't necessary'. Should have tipped me off....

Keep the communication going, you are making headway.