Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers LBS need help and support #2

Song, my heart goes out to you. All I can say is to do what works. Whatever gets you positive results, you continue doing and when you don't get good results, you stop or pull back. But what ever you do, you have as much right to see your kids and to keep them just as much as she does. You have let her have her way and she is taking more and more advantage and using the kids as her tool. Whatever it takes, even a court order, I would do it before I became a stranger to my own children. Maybe that is why the child is having so many problems right now is b/c his daddy is not around and he doesn't understand why. Maybe she is saying negative things about you or the future in front of him. I don't know her. She may be telling him that daddy doesn't care anything about him anymore is why you aren't there. Who knows what a woman will stoop to in order to get her own way and have her kids all the time too? She would not be the first person to try to brainwash the children into believing the other parent did not care for them. I pray to God she is not like that! I think she is selfish and has issues that she needs help with. But, if I were you.....I would work at getting my children back at least 50% of the time and then worry about her. That is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Sandi

I hear you, I have been being a little too dark in an attempt to give W space, but you are right, I have every bit as much right to be in the house as she does. Sure we can sleep in different places, but if I want to see my kids during the day and she doesn't want to see me, let her leave (like she just did).

I'm sure she isn't bad mouthing me to the kids, that's not her style, and I would have a sense of it from the kids It's more a case that she's always fully indulged everything they want or ask (i.e."give them a fish"), whereas I take the "teach them to fish" approach. Of course, as kids, they go for the easiest route, and I think guilt is causing her to indulge them even more. Take for example the whole "taking them to the movies on Dad's night, because they wanted to go" debacle last weekend. Even when she left today, she said "S11 is mad at me, I may stop by later". I said, somewhat jokingly "Well, you have to cut the cord some day, or he'll just continue to push your buttons". She responded with some justification, I didn't agree but validated it, yet I think the point was taken. It would be different if he was 5 or 6, but at almost 12 years, he is quite the manipulator.

Interesting turn of events. Last night both kids slept over friends houses, so W was alone in the house while I was at the apartment. W actually gave me a call to update me on some of the kids activities, and sounded a bit upbeat an not as cold as she was at the psychologist meeting. I'm guessing the loneliness of the big empty house got to her (who knows, maybe also a glass of wine) but it surprised the heck out of me.

This morning when I came by to pick up S11 for Basketball, I took the opportunity to talk with her for a bit. I said that she looked sad yesterday, and asked if anything was bothering her. She told me there were problems at work. I listened. She told me about the pressures she is under at work. I listened. She volunteered quite a bit of information, had some eye contact, and, dare I say it... she even smiled a couple of times. That's short term goal #1!

I resisted all chances to tell her anything about me, and made it all about her... that's a big 180, now that I look at it - I would have a tendency to take something she would tell me and say something like "That reminds me of something that happened at work the other day...". I figure if and when she wants to know anything about me, she'll ask, in the mean time, "I'll be the one to ask the questions here"...

Naturally when I returned from basketball, she was back to being icy, probably feels like she gave me false hope, or some other nonsense. Regardless, I will choose to focus on the positive part of the interaction, thank you very much.

As expected, S11 called W several times until she finally came over to say good night to him. I talked to her for a few minutes before she left, basically said that of course she's welcome to come over and do that when I'm with the kids, but I'm also going to be more present with them, which means that I will be spending more time at the house on her nights. She wasn't happy about it, but I'm not going to let my kids get distant from me to make things easier for her.

Before she left, I said "you know there is a simple solution to this"

She said "Yeah, us all living together again"

I nodded. She kind of shrugged and left.

Not sure if that seems like pursuit, or is against the DB way of doing things, but I simply stated what we both know, and nobody has been addressing.

I spent some great time with the kids this weekend.

Thought a lot about our sit, and I think the kids are the only reason W hasn't pushed for a D. She had mentioned in counseling that "she's done", but I can sense that she knows how hard it would be on them if we were to D. I see so much pain in her eyes, and feel so much tension emanating from her when we are in the same room together. I know she is deeply conflicted.

Kids are still operating on the original statement W said which is "I got the apartment for 6 months so Dad & I can have some space and figure things out." 6 months is up at the end of March, and kids are going to wonder when the family will all start living together. Her approach has always been to push away the feelings and pretend everything is OK.

I feel like time is ticking away on another bomb due to explode April 1.

Another thing that worries me, is that when I talked with her New Years Eve (the last R talk we had), she said

"I moved into the apartment because I knew things wouldn't change if I didn't move out. I kept thinking something would wake me up and change the way I felt, but since we've been apart, I'm just much more at peace."

It was after that night that I finally got it, stopped pursuing, and started DB'ing. Do I still have a chance, or did the pursuing I did the first 3 months of separation mess up chances of reconciliation?

You know I'm kind of like you. My wife and I sep. 1.5yrs ago and for the first year I was pursuing like he!!, but didn't realize it. One day she told me she was going to file for D, I was hoping she wouldn't but one day I got the paperwork in the mail. It was only an intention of changing the S into D. After that day I stopped pursuing and decided I needed to help myself. Since then things have gotten better, still not to good yet but getting closer.

I know my wife has had the D papers from her L for about 7-8 months but hasn't filed anything.

So I would say there is still a chance the one thing I don't think I would do is move back in unless your sure it's going to work or at least has a good chance. IMO that would be worse for the kids than telling them you just need some more time.

Thanks for the encouragement volleydog. It's not a move back situation though... she rented an apartment 2 miles from our house, and we shift back and forth between apartment and house.

This is after me digging in my heels(and pursuing) for the first 3 months, with her at the apartment, me at the house, and kids shuffling back and forth.

So now it's a better sitch for the kids, as they have stability in the house, but neither me or W has one place to call "home". It's messed up, but I hope and pray that we reconcile.

Sandi, I value your guidance immensely, do you have any advice on my latest posts/fears? I can't seem to get out of my own way...

Ok, I'm also being self serving here by bumping my thread

Hi Song,
Just stopping by to say that I'm thinking of you.
I'm sorry it's a really rough time right now.

How will the two of you know if things in your situation are improving? I'm sure there are all sorts of signs, from minor to major, that you could list.

Have you met any of those?

One of mine is for my H to give me a hug without me asking for one. Another is for him to hold my hand (that's certainly not happening yet, although he did give me a hug yesterday.) I find it easier to measure things with teaspoons rather than gallons.

Thanks for your concern lemonsnap, the kindness of everyone here really helps a lot.

You bring up a good point on signs of improvement and goals. I have put together a list, and it's posted on my first thread, but to keep it front and center, I'll also paste here:

Personal goals

1- I will continue to back off and give W time to think. This means no unnecessary phone calls or emails. If she calls me, then no M or R talk.

2- I will remain positive and upbeat at all times in her presence.

3- I will understand that this is a process and will not come about overnight, so I will be patient.

4- I will become less dependent on W for validation, comfort, support and my emotional well being.

5- I will become stronger physically, mentally and emotionally. I will achieve this through exercise, reading and other continuing education, counseling and DB coaching, and actively participating on the DB board.

6- I will become better connected with my kids. I will achieve this by taking a more active role in their extra-curricular activities, doing more activities with them on the weekends, and asking them better questions to get them to open up and share with me.


Signs of improvement goals - Short term

1- W will look me in the eyes when we talk and smile genuinely at me.

2- W will call me just to see how I'm doing, or talk to me about something non-logistical (example- kids, schedule, finances)

3- W will leave me a note or send me an email - non-logistical.

4- W will ask me to come over or stay for dinner.

5- W will do my laundry, or buy something specifically I like to eat

Signs of improvement - Long term

1- W will show interest in doing things with me and involving me in family activities with her and the kids.

2- If/When W does get to the point she is ready to talk about our M, I will be a better listener by seeking first to understand, then to be understood.

3- If/when my W is willing to work on our M, I will be aware of my behaviors so that I do not repeat the controlling and smothering that caused so much damage in the past. I will be considerate and not take her for granted.

4- W will want to stop the nesting, give up the apartment, and have all of us live together at home again.

5- When we live together again, I will continue to practice DB techniques and participate in the forum to help other people through their struggle.


Last Saturday, we had a nice talk with eye contact and a few smiles, so my first short term sign has occurred. And yes, it is only a teaspoon, but the journey of a thousand miles begins with one small step.