Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again "are you happier now?"

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LL,

I realize this is a forum with R or M, so I am glad you did not take offense of my questions, as I have more to badger about your feelings and communications with all of your immediate family members, not just with your H...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quoting lostlove:</font><hr>dad had cheated on mom...mom threw him out and eventually took him back (she got tired of being alone with three kids) <hr /></blockquote>
I am sorry about that experience you had about your Dad. How do you FEEL about his decisions and actions? told him rather bluntly...dad I think you're a jerk for doing what you did, but you are my dad and I'll always love you. I still argue with him about it as he tries to give his foolish justifications...a whole bunch of bla bla bla the same stuff we have all heared from was's nothing very original. Anger, devastation, fear, or anything else? Did you talk about these FEELINGS with your mom? sure..and she expresses her feelings as well... How does she FEEL? she had had enough of my dad's crap..she does miss the "life" they had together..the functions, the people, the places, the vacations, the boat etc. but has her own life now...though it's not what she wanted she is ok with it most days. Can you and your mom openly talk about this terrible experience, or you feel that it is a taboo that you are compelled to protect her from getting in touch with this past history? nothing is taboo in my world. I think that's what intimidates some people when they first meet me.

On the same token, did you share your feelings, in a calm and non-judgmental way, with your dad? Can you talk about this at all with the idea to understand more about the circumstances involved? Can you tell me, in an objective understanding, what kind of person (not the sense of good or bad, but what kind of personality) he is, what his feelings were when he had those cheating actions, what his thought process were, his achievements in his life besides R, and how he feels now towards his decisions over the years? he has had many excuses and explenations as to why and how it happend...I don't know what to believe of him. what kind of person is/was he??? one who knows many and has many to call on when he needs something but not one to call on as he has his own agenda..one who is happy to eat a steak and a can of beans and live alone free to do as he pleases but also enjoys the company of others...he does admit that he misses a lot of things and that he would probably be better off both physically and financially had he stayed with my mom, but never hesitates to add that he never wanted a d..but also admits that he wasn't planning on giving up ow or other ow's...he doesn't even live with the ow that split the family..and yes he cheats on her too...his reply "what diff does that make..would you be happier if I lived with her etc." well sure dad it would make a hell of a lot more sense. but anyway...that's their life..does it effect me?? of course it does..but there's little I can do to change it.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quoting lostlove:</font><hr> as far as my personal goals...well I know that I can't fully envelope myself in anything for a few years (when dd starts school) but I do have some things in mind... <hr /></blockquote>
Well, LL, how do you FEEL about this choice? I know you are a dedicated mom and taking care of the kids and your home is a gratifying experience to you. But do you feel comfortable with where you are so far with regards to your plan, or you feel you are imposed with the obligations that inevitably distract you from where you want to be personally? After all, do you feel satisfied to define the life of LL by taking care of family and kids? certainly NOT. perhaps if I had a better r with h and felt more together I would be more content with giving up "my life" for the short term but where I don't feel a quality r with h or as much of a family I grow at times to resent it. and then feel guilty for feeling that way. What are the plans, no matter preliminary or detailed, that you have to define LL's entire life in the future that you can share with us? I just finished and passed my emt course, so I will be volunteering with the towns ambulance co. once dd starts kidnergarten or 1st grade (2-3 years out) I would like to try to get a job within the school system..anything to get in the door and get to know people, heck I'll be the lunch lady to start...I'd like to use my degree and try to get involved in the school guidance or councelors office and eventually when the kids are grown enough that I can work year round I think I'd like to be a family therapist or councelor wich may take getting a masters degree but heck I can do that.

How about your mom? Where do you see her, by your OWN standard, in terms of having a successful and balanced life between her career and the kids? she always had her own life...I feel like I got jipped, I know she tried but she was lost in her own muck. Did you share your feelings about your own life plan, as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, with your mom? yup! have to...she worked to pay for half my college tuition so I like to keep her knowing that I do intend to do something with it. Did you feel you want to do more than she did after you earned your degree, but for some reason your mom’s choice seemed to have become your path? my path and my moms path are only similar in that we both married cheaters.

Again, please just take whatever you would feel comfortable or relevant to share with us, as these questions could very well be off base. I would just like to understand how you look at those issues with regards to who you are and how you feel comfortable with what you have from the prosective of yourself and your family members, not just your M...

Chuck

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I just finished and passed my emt course, so I will be volunteering with the towns ambulance co.

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nothing is taboo in my world. I think that's what intimidates some people when they first meet me.

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Despite that, I'd better tell you what I was thinking with this line of questioning. I just read through a book "Dance of Intimacy" by Harriet Lerner (pink cover for woman readers... I had a hard time hiding the cover on the bus, digression...) I don't think it has all the answer, but it seems to point out some areas that you have repeatedly expressed your dissatisfaction in R. The recommendation the book has is to focus on yourself, including your first family, your own value career, your own value system, and learn to express them in a calm and non-judgemental way, while sharing your own vulnerability. The feeling of emotional intimacy in your R would come after that without focusing on your R.

Again, I can understand your frustration and mistrust for the M, and I realize that many of your expression of feelings is more on venting than a sign of a complete dissatisfaction, knowing you are a person of deep reflections. I don't have a magic solution, nor is the book the answer to everything. Just an idea that I came across and that I hope can be of use to you, who are an envy for many on this BB that you got your M back. After all, we all look for something warm and fulfilling in a R in our life time, even though I realize nothing is happily ever after in life...

Chuck

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The recommendation the book has is to focus on yourself, including your first family, your own value career, your own value system, and learn to express them in a calm and non-judgemental way, while sharing your own vulnerability. The feeling of emotional intimacy in your R would come after that without focusing on your R.

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chuck,

does that mean that my focus should be on my family of origin as my first family? or my current family (h and kiddos) as my first family...my new nuclear family?

it's all so damn confusing...

when I get upset about my family of origin..h tells me to look to and focus on the family that we have...

that was doable at one time...

I have stated before that once (before dd was born but waiting) that after a phone call with mom about a holiday and my inviting dad...I stated to h clearly and exaclty "no matter how bad things get let's promise never to d"...then though I knew h and I were distant (probably not much more so than now but then again I get so lost and confused at times that I can't even tell) but I didn't know of his secret life and thoughts of leaving this family.

I don't know wich to focus on...

I wish that I could look at my current family to keep me from going down that dark tunnel of despair at the lost family...but now part of this family has been lost..and could be lost again...



LL

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I just read through a book "Dance of Intimacy" by Harriet Lerner (pink cover for woman readers... I had a hard time hiding the cover on the bus, digression...)

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that's how I feel when h starts giving...what's this..he's calling me...what's this...he's giving me a hug...what's this...he's asking me to go out...what's this..he's making plans for dinner for tommorow night? what's this...he's thinking of me...what's this????

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I hate the fact that this always seems to come about with me getting so fed up that I just give up and retreat to doing my own thing...reside to having a roomate with no interest...

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I wonder how many times we can go through this cycle before that alien mind of a waw takes over me...

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I wonder how to get the cycle to stop...

I wonder how to show h that if he gives a little he'll get a lot...

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that's how I feel when h starts giving...what's this..he's calling me...what's this...he's giving me a hug...what's this...he's asking me to go out...what's this..he's making plans for dinner for tommorow night? what's this...he's thinking of me...what's this????

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Is it "what's this...what a jerk he is for doing this now"? or "what is this...I don't recognize this niceness and love"? or something entirely different? perhaps a bit of both....perhaps a bit of who is this guy and why doesn't he stay? I think you'd understand better if you saw the movie....jack finds all the excitement of christmas town over whelming...looking here there and everywhere...what's this...what's this, he likes it, wants it, wants to make it his own.

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I hate the fact that this always seems to come about with me getting so fed up that I just give up and retreat to doing my own thing...reside to having a roomate with no interest...

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maybe it isn't that you get so "fed up" ll...maybe it's that when you retreat you give him room to try some things out...? make some overtures of his own? I don't think you quiet understand me sage, I am not at his feet...I am here doing what I do...he is still here just doing what he does..in fact right now he's probably asleep on the damn couch AGAIN...I've decided once again...screw him...I will not spend my life in front of a tv just to spend time with a man who is asleep..I will read or go out or do whatever I want to do and leave him there to catch flies. A week or so of that and I get..."maybe we could go to the drive in sat" I continue to do my own thing thereafter and today I get..."why don't you see if your mom can baby sit and well go out again sat night" so it does seem that I have to be an uncaring, cold typical w who just doesn't care in order for my h to take any initiative. I would like for him to want to spend time with me this all just feels like ok well she's not happy, she's pulled away...maybe I'll take her out and then I'll get myself out of the dog house for a while. to be honest I was shocked at his suggestion for a repeat this saturday.

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I wonder how many times we can go through this cycle before that alien mind of a waw takes over me...

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You can stop the cycle I think...it takes two (I think) to perpetuate it. the only way to stop it is to become content with the status quo and never actually become comfortable and feel safe enough to express my love to h..only indifference. because it is when I start to inititate hugs or hello calls or anything that he pulls away.

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I wonder how to get the cycle to stop...

I wonder how to show h that if he gives a little he'll get a lot...

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He IS giving a little (a lot?) he is giving just enough to get by ... he's asked you to do stuff a couple of times in the last few weeks..what you've been hoping for, right??? what I've been asking for for YEARS...phases of trying nothing, asking directly, making vauge suggestions etc...all without reading books...now when I'm pretty close to just residing myself to being a wife and mother...sitting in a room alone reading books and thinking of crafty ways to decorate while my h sits in another room and falls asleep watching whatever sporting even happens to be on occassionally talking on the phone to buddie this is when h decides to ask me to do something? but mind you he will sit on that couch and fall asleep every night but that one so I will go out with someone I don't really know.

What is different about what h is actually DOING vs what you want him to do?? because it seems (in quotes) that he's doing what you're asking for....are you upping the ante???? not uping the ante at all...having one night a week that we do something (anything) together is but one of the things I'd like to have in this r...that's enough to get us by for now...

sage

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Is it "what's this...what a jerk he is for doing this now"? or "what is this...I don't recognize this niceness and love"? or something entirely different? perhaps a bit of both....perhaps a bit of who is this guy and why doesn't he stay? I think you'd understand better if you saw the movie....jack finds all the excitement of christmas town over whelming...looking here there and everywhere...what's this...what's this, he likes it, wants it, wants to make it his own.

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maybe it isn't that you get so "fed up" ll...maybe it's that when you retreat you give him room to try some things out...? make some overtures of his own? I don't think you quiet understand me sage, I am not at his feet...I am here doing what I do...

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There's a good chance that I'm not understanding.... so bear with me if you want!

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he is still here just doing what he does..in fact right now he's probably asleep on the damn couch AGAIN...I've decided once again...screw him...I will not spend my life in front of a tv just to spend time with a man who is asleep..I will read or go out or do whatever I want to do and leave him there to catch flies. A week or so of that and I get..."maybe we could go to the drive in sat" I continue to do my own thing thereafter and today I get..."why don't you see if your mom can baby sit and well go out again sat night" so it does seem that I have to be an uncaring, cold typical w who just doesn't care in order for my h to take any initiative.

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I would like for him to want to spend time with me this all just feels like ok well she's not happy, she's pulled away...maybe I'll take her out and then I'll get myself out of the dog house for a while. to be honest I was shocked at his suggestion for a repeat this saturday.

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You can stop the cycle I think...it takes two (I think) to perpetuate it. the only way to stop it is to become content with the status quo and never actually become comfortable and feel safe enough to express my love to h..only indifference. because it is when I start to inititate hugs or hello calls or anything that he pulls away.

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OK...let me try this...maybe the cycle isn't 2 actions long...maybe it's more than that...so maybe it isn't

LL initiates hugs and kisses
h pulls away

but maybe it's

LL initiates hugs and kisses
h pulls away
LL does XYZ
h stays away

What is XYZ in the above cycle? Do YOU pull away? Do YOU get peeved? Do YOU try harder to get closer? All of those things seem perfectly normal and expected but what if the next time h pulls away, you did a 180?

LL -- I know I've mentioned it before...have you read mars and venus???? It talks a lot about men pulling away...(also women ebbing and flowing, too).

I KNOW for me that when I am affectionate with h and he pulls away I do one of two extremes...either I pursue him with expectations OR I really, really distant myself. Neither works very well... what does seem to work for us is if I can stay sort of neutral while he's distancing.

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He IS giving a little (a lot?) he is giving just enough to get by ... he's asked you to do stuff a couple of times in the last few weeks..what you've been hoping for, right??? what I've been asking for for YEARS...phases of trying nothing, asking directly, making vauge suggestions etc...all without reading books...now when I'm pretty close to just residing myself to being a wife and mother...sitting in a room alone reading books and thinking of crafty ways to decorate while my h sits in another room and falls asleep watching whatever sporting even happens to be on occassionally talking on the phone to buddie this is when h decides to ask me to do something? but mind you he will sit on that couch and fall asleep every night but that one so I will go out with someone I don't really know.

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Is it "what's this...what a jerk he is for doing this now"? or "what is this...I don't recognize this niceness and love"? or something entirely different? perhaps a bit of both....perhaps a bit of who is this guy and why doesn't he stay? I think you'd understand better if you saw the movie....jack finds all the excitement of christmas town over whelming...looking here there and everywhere...what's this...what's this, he likes it, wants it, wants to make it his own.

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oh...did I misread your "tone"?

Are you looking at it with awe and wonder and wanting it to last? Or are you doubting it? I think I ASSumed the latter but it sounds like it's more the former?
the former...you'd have to see the movie to fully appreciate what I mean by "what's this"

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maybe it isn't that you get so "fed up" ll...maybe it's that when you retreat you give him room to try some things out...? make some overtures of his own? I don't think you quiet understand me sage, I am not at his feet...I am here doing what I do...

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There's a good chance that I'm not understanding.... so bear with me if you want! gladly

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he is still here just doing what he does..in fact right now he's probably asleep on the damn couch AGAIN...I've decided once again...screw him...I will not spend my life in front of a tv just to spend time with a man who is asleep..I will read or go out or do whatever I want to do and leave him there to catch flies. A week or so of that and I get..."maybe we could go to the drive in sat" I continue to do my own thing thereafter and today I get..."why don't you see if your mom can baby sit and well go out again sat night" so it does seem that I have to be an uncaring, cold typical w who just doesn't care in order for my h to take any initiative.

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so....I guess the leap I'm having trouble with is how does "letting h do his own thing while I go off and do mine" equate to being an "uncaring, cold typical wife"??
because I see alot of wives who make plans with their friends or go off shopping or do their own thing and have little regard for their h's, they don't consider them when they make their plans..he is after all just the guy who works and pays the bills, the guy who's underwear they fold.
Is it because you're pissed off while you're doing it? no it's because I'm sad when I'm doing it...I'd like to have a bit more of a r with h than...put kids to bed and retreat to our own corners of the room and my eventually going to bed alone unless of course I decide to wake him from the couch and bring him upstairs like another kid in the house just that he's to big to carrry.

Because, to me, letting h sleep on the couch or watch sports or relax in some other way while you go off and do your thing could be construed as caring, not trying to change him, accepting him for who he is, all kinds of wonderful stuff...and perhaps THAT's how he's interpreting and responding to it? ok so it may be an ASSumption on my part...but sure sometimes he sees it that way but I'd be willing to bet that other times he see's it as...oh crap LL's gettting bothered by my falling asleep so she's ignoring me...I better give a little ie. attempt to make plans or suggest taking the kids out to dinner.

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I would like for him to want to spend time with me this all just feels like ok well she's not happy, she's pulled away...maybe I'll take her out and then I'll get myself out of the dog house for a while. to be honest I was shocked at his suggestion for a repeat this saturday.

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So...you're making a lot of ASSumptions about why h is behaving in a certain way...I'm certainly doing that too...and goodness knows you'd know better...right??? would you be able to look at h's behavior with an unbiased eye? I do my best, but there are times when well it just is what it is.

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You can stop the cycle I think...it takes two (I think) to perpetuate it. the only way to stop it is to become content with the status quo and never actually become comfortable and feel safe enough to express my love to h..only indifference. because it is when I start to inititate hugs or hello calls or anything that he pulls away.

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OK...let me try this...maybe the cycle isn't 2 actions long...maybe it's more than that...so maybe it isn't

LL initiates hugs and kisses
h pulls away

but maybe it's

LL initiates hugs and kisses
h pulls away
LL does XYZ
h stays away

What is XYZ in the above cycle? LL feels rejected and doubtful Do YOU pull away? eventually Do YOU get peeved? no I get saddend by the lack of mutualness in the r Do YOU try harder to get closer? in the past I would have but as a result of everything it's hard enough to initiate anything in the first place so I typically back off easily at first not mad just well just All of those things seem perfectly normal and expected but what if the next time h pulls away, you did a 180? 180..LL doesn't even go into the family room...LL will take a shower after son and h and immediately go to lr and start reading.

LL -- I know I've mentioned it before...have you read mars and venus???? It talks a lot about men pulling away...(also women ebbing and flowing, too). i used to (long before all the crapola) catch him on tv and I listend, I bought the book as h started to come home...but I'll admit to not reading the whole thing...just kinda skimming.

I KNOW for me that when I am affectionate with h and he pulls away I do one of two extremes...either I pursue him with expectations OR I really, really distant myself. Neither works very well... what does seem to work for us is if I can stay sort of neutral while he's distancing. the neutral feeling is my distancing...but then all my expectations and desires are stuffed almost to the point where I'm not interested even if h does make an attempt. I don't like that feeling but what can I do.

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He IS giving a little (a lot?) he is giving just enough to get by ... he's asked you to do stuff a couple of times in the last few weeks..what you've been hoping for, right??? what I've been asking for for YEARS...phases of trying nothing, asking directly, making vauge suggestions etc...all without reading books...now when I'm pretty close to just residing myself to being a wife and mother...sitting in a room alone reading books and thinking of crafty ways to decorate while my h sits in another room and falls asleep watching whatever sporting even happens to be on occassionally talking on the phone to buddie this is when h decides to ask me to do something? but mind you he will sit on that couch and fall asleep every night but that one so I will go out with someone I don't really know.

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so...am I reading this correctly? Are you irked by the "too little, too late" phenomenon? not so much the too little too late....more the too little and not often enough. it seems that our little phases of spending time and h's actually asking me to go somewhere are usually come around after I've decided somewhere in my mind that I'll put up with all this until the kids are grown and then I'm out of here.

sage

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