Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers What's next???? The adventure continues!!!

Mel,
Very nice! The thing is that with my wife here I didn't actually do what I wanted to do anyway, so now when my D13 agrees with me I will love it even if she doesn't agree cause my wife never did or always gave me a hard time. So either way I win!

Your best bet may be to get a MP3 player and make a playlist just for the occassion. That's what I'm doing

Ok, another interesting twist. The wife called again wanted to talk to D13. D13 comes to me after about a 5 min conversation and wants to talk. I say what's up? She says, mommy wants me to call her every night at 7. I said ok. She said I don't want to. If she wants to talk to me why can't she call me? I said that's a good question. She said she's the one that left, she's the one that should be calling. I said that's a good point. Did you tell her this, I asked? She said no. I asked how come? She said well, she'll get mad. I said does that really matter to you? She said I don't know. I said, did she seem to care that you were mad that she left? She said nope she didn't. I asked what they talked about. She said the wife tried to force coversation about her day and my D13 was clearly annoyed. I told her that her mommy was still her mommy and she needed to respect her but she also needed to be honest with her about how she feels. I said, if she's mad what's she gonna do if she's not here? My daughter laughed at this. She also said that she had asked if my daughter wanted to do something this weekend. I said, what did you tell her? She said she would have to check with me. I asked D13 if she wanted to do something w/ her. She said no, I'm still mad at her and plus she's annoying? WOW--out of the mouths of babes.

Ok, I'm trying to be so careful here and not take delight in this because it is in fact tragic that this is unfolding the way it is, but I am learning a lot about the wife's behavior and my daughter's perception of her mom and her associated behavior and it's not good.

I told her she needed to be clear about her feelings and not sugar coat them. If she wanted to call, then call. If she didn't, then don't. When confronted though, tell mom, I didn't feel like calling or I don't feel like talking. It felt like a productive conversation and I didn't dog the wife at all to the daughter although I certainly could have.

AF,

You're a good dad.

Puppy

Yes, you are.

M

I totally agree with Puppy and Mel: you are a good Dad!

Thanks guys, but it's going downhill now. My daughter is starting to realize what's going on now. She starts asking all these questions about why mommy left. I told her that I didn't show mommy the love and affection that she deserved and mommy wasn't willing to forgive me for way she feels I treated her and my SS in the past. She said that's retarded. I said that may be but that's the way she feels. She said I want to call her. I said ok, call away. Next thing I know, the wife wants to talk to me. She starts by cussing at me and asks why I'm putting her daughter to this. I said I haven't put her up to anything and told her that D13 wanted to call as she was starting to feel bad about the situation. She said do you really want me to tell her why? I said, hell, I'd like you to tell me why first. She said you have been cruel to me and SS19 for years. I should have left you 8 years ago. She referred to incidents that happened over the years that were very isolated and involved no hitting or abuse or anything like that. I said, I could argue that you were cruel as well. She said that's true. I said the main difference is that I have forgiven you and you choose not to forgive me. She said, and I never will! She said is that what you want to tell D13? I said, that's up to you. She said that's not fair to her. I said neither is her mother leaving her. She cussed at me and said let me speak to my daughter. I said there is no reason to cuss and if you want to speak to her you can ask as you told me you wanted to be civil. She said you're right, could I please speak to D13? Ok, no problem. I said and one more thing, when you asked if I was ok earlier, I want you to know I am but I am not ok with you doing this. She said I don't really care and I won't bother you again, I'll call directly to D13. I said you're not bothering me, I just wanted to clarify for you in case you were wondering. Oh, she was so angry.

So, I go take the phone to D13 and she has locked her self in her room. So I had to ask her to open up while I've got the wife listening on the phone. She finally opens up and I say mommy wants to talk to you and turn around and go back to the other room.

2 minutes later D13 comes out crying and hands me the phone. I said what now? She doesn't want to talk but I follow her to her room and coax her into telling me. She asked the wife again why are you doing this? Wife says she didn't get the love and attention she needed and didn't want to be married to daddy anymore. She said she didn't want to go into the rest as D13 didn't need to know. So, I told her what the wife had said to me. That I was cruel(which I don't know how, I mean come on almost every couple has arguements and she was just as cruel to me if thats what you wanna call it). I told her that mommy has decided that she doesn't want to forgive me for these things and therefore doesn't want to be married to me. She said but why won't she forgive you? I said I don't know, I have asked her to and love her very much but that is her choice and I can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do. She said but she left me too. I said I know, I don't understand either. We talked for a little more and I told her that I would take care of her. She said that her mom wanted to take her to a movie tomorrow night but she didn't want to go and that she hated her mom right now. I said you don't hate her, you're just upset. I said if you don't want to go then tell her that. Long conversation and I am very upset now, not only for me but for my daughter and for my failed marriage

Am I insane or is there not an article on this board here that talks about forgiveness and how it can set you free and how you can be a better person, etc, etc. I know I have made mistakes in the past and have owned them and asked for forgiveness.

Bottom line, I don't know how to make the wife forgive me and fear that she never will regardless of how I act now or in the future. What a way to end the day...

AFWAW, I hate to break it to you, but the whole thing about forgiveness for past transgressions is just an excuse. It is another way of saying ILYBNILWY.

Somewhere, underneath all the stuff that is being said publicly is the real reason that this is happening. It may have something to do with the way that you treated her in the past, but my suspicion is that it is only a minor component.

Your D13 sounds exactly like my D12, right down to her attitude and feelings toward her mom. In my case, I think I told my D12 too much information about what mom and dad were going through, and my W clobbered me for being too informative with them. If either of our sitches end up in divorce court, it can be detrimental that we have been so open. Just a thought.

Hang in there man, your roller-coaster ride is just starting.

Clarification please? I am a little confused by this.

Forgiveness is a very powerful thing. The misunderstanding is that you do it for someone else. I have come to the realization that the person who benefits most is the person doing the forgiving.

Spell is dead on in this. Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself. While that is the title of an article by Michelle, it is also very true. The best thing I could have done for ME, MY mental health, and MY kids was to forgive my DH and the OW. Was it easy??? Heck no!, Especially not the OW. But the bitterness, anger, and hurt was eating me up. Look at my last three threads and you can see it in my posts. Shortly before Christmas, I was starting to scare some of my supportive friends--both here and in RL. My anger and frustrations were palpable. Yet slowly, through the holidays, with God's love and support, I found the courage to forgive my DH. Then, with the help of a group at church, I found the strength to forgive OW.

The thing about forgiveness, too, is that there are layers to it. Think Shrek when he says ogres have layers like an onion. When you peel one away, there is a deeper one. As you get closer to the center, the layers sometimes are dense, sometimes thin. The depth of the forgiveness is directly proportional to the extent of the wounding and the intimacy of the relationship that the wounding occurred in.

I am sure there are going to be repeated needs to forgive both of them, but the removal of the initial bitterness and pain was like being set free from a cage. I know this is also true, as my mother commented to me last night about the calm and peace I have gained in the past few months and the only things I can attribute it to is forgiving my DH and the OW, and walking closer with the Lord to enable me to forgive.

Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~
SMW