Yes. That would be good to figure out. At this point, with two young kids in tow, you can't just go fulfill your wishes. You have to think about 3 people. But at least you are one of the three. He only takes care of himself.
Mornin K... I guess in response to your 'fill in the blanks' and wondering why he wont..that reminds me of how frustrated I used to feel with my sitch, but I seem to have come to a point of acceptance about what has gone on before... I used to say, why wont he talk to me? Why wont he tell me why he is phoning every day/not phoning/ why he left etc.. and my Mum (always my Mum) would say... becuase he doesnt have the answers. Theres no point asking, because he doesnt know and he doesnt have the answers and he probably doesnt understand himself why he is behaving x, y,z....
So when your H sits there and trails off.. he hasnt got the answers fully formed and clear, he is still moving (slowly!!!!) through this process. Like Bworl very aptly pointed out - he's only just NOW realised he neeeds to DO any work on himself, neverlone done it and come out the other side with that "Ahhh!" lightbulb moment (the one I had when my ex left and perhaps you have had moments like that) when you realise how you have been behaving and why... he hasnt yet worked out WTH he has been acting up these past 2 years.
... on the what you could do.. I said alot of encouraging things yesterday about going to see him and listen and you did and you said "and maybe, maybe I could be more... "accommodating" so that he could at least reach out more".. yes, maybe you could do that active listening, give more reassurances.. but.. in my own sitch, I got the same.. he would start a sentence and trail off and sat in a car twice and held his hand and SAID "I know you find it hard to talk...but you could have talked to me and I am an understanding person, its ok...." but still, he said nothing. He wasnt ready. You can lead a horse to water...
As for someone else (was it GFI?) I agree with some points there like, it seemed to me that he does basically, want you to just be happy... because he can see your agony and suffering and he loves you and because he doesnt know WTH he is doing right now (and possibly, who the hell he is even!) and he cant give you the answers, or what you need.. he feels pushed into just saying, fine, D, do what you have to. Thats what we read about in DB/DR isnt it.. if someone is still processing and you push them, serve an ultimatum, that doesnt work, as all they can do is say fine, go then. But that doesnt mean that they no longer love you/want you...but seems you probably realise that this morning.
It reminded me of myself, when my EA first imploded and my ex was reaching out to me for explanations.. I pushed him out the door, because I didnt have what he wanted, but I actually still loved him. Also, it reminds me of my ex, the last time I saw him, when I asked him to tell me what was going on, what was I to do?...I remember he said to me with that awful guilty/heartbroken look on his face "I dont know.... I dont know what I am about... I just want you to be happy Al". Seems perhaps thats all your H can give you right now.. if you love them, set them free, isnt that the phrase?
Sorry for rambling. Woke up thinking of you, glad you sound better today. So..whats the plan??
I understand the frustration of the work thing - I used to resent the long hours my h put into his job. As it turns out he was putting those hours in because he felt this great need to provide and achieve. He found achievement in a different way than I would and I didn't understand that. It caused us to clash, bang heads and resent each other and move in different directions. Not good for the end goal...
I am confused as to what you need to see from him. Can you list what behaviour he needs to demonstrate for you to be satisfied. I know that his behaviour is frustrating and believe me I totally understand your frustration but we can lament his faults etc all we like. Getting frustrated and throwing the divorce card is not going to help you get any nearer your goals. You need to be clear about what you want to see from him and then you can 'do work'.
I think it is important to acknowledge to that we all do things in different ways. I seem to be thinking back here to when he gave you an ipod as a present and it wasn't quite what you wanted as it didn't have the same emotional significance to you as perhaps something else (jewellery is always the thing I treasure). It turned out he had put thought into that present and once you realised that you enjoyed it. He just did things differently to the way you would.
I know how much you put into this and don't get me wrong I don't under-estimate that. But I don't feel I can jump on and say he is not putting anything into this, he is just working on it in a different way and at a different pace. At the moment you guys seem to be banging heads and are very near the 'let's just divorce point'. I know you want this man to stand up and fight for you. As I see it he is, just not perhaps the way you would like to see him do it.
Maybe you have listed this already but you have lots of threads and input so maybe it would be good to bring it to the forefront again. What are your goals and what would you like to see from him to feel like you are moving towards them.
As I read your list of examples I was self reflecting and thought something to myself and then found my thoughts rith there in your post -
"I am sitting there, facing him, looking at his face and he will not complete his sentences. Just like kids do when they are afraid what they are saying may turn out the wrong thing."
I am 46 and still act in some ways like a kid. Some things don't change. I would say he is afraid to finish the sentence because he either lacks confindence in his answer, is afraid to disappoint you, or will anger you with it.
If this is the case only you can help answer which one is the right one. I would say be careful answering his open ended statements. Only he knows what comes next and if he is afraid or trying to avoid conflict it is very likely he will agree with your answer even when you are wrong. This allows you to walk away with the wrong impression or feelings.
You could try something else. I had a mentor once who would ask a question. After you gave an answer he would just remain quite and look at you - as if waiting for the rest of what you had to say. The period of silence is vey un-nerving and you start to feel compelled to talk more. Then he would still remain quiet just nodding his head ... and you try to add more because you felt the urge to provide more. He was a master at this and it really worked. Took me a year to figure out what he was doing and that it was intentional
Reflecting on myself it sounds like your husband is just trying hard not to offend or trying not to do somehting that will push you out the door...which actually a round about way of trying to please you... I guess it depends on your perspective.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
I resonate with most of Bwhorl with a few caveats ...
<< At this point, perhaps beginning the process of divorce is the way to go. This may backfire (just like a big cannon does). Perhaps its wiser to first understand what's ailing H. None of us understand, not does K. Perhaps he or the C will come out with it shortly. So this means ... more patience and time and listening ... ugh it must be rough going in K's shoes.
<< Our spouses? Few of them have done ANY work. Few of them have even stopped to consider that part of the problems in the relationship might have belonged to them. If you talk to them its the complete opposite story: THEY have done EVERYTHING and you did not change to meet THEIR expectations. First let's remove the superlatives. Second our(their) hearts are so small that we(they) can only feel our(their)own pain. Third our(their) minds are so small that we(they) do not understand what work needs to be done even if we(they) are able and willing to do it. So we(they) must humbly seek and ask for help. Its back to work now, at least for me.
I have just finally caught up and all I can really say is that I am 100% behind you no matter what you decide in the end. You are a beautiful, courageous woman and you impress me mightly.
Thank you for being such an honest, open person here. Sharing your walk with all of us really helps put perspective on some things we all may be dealing with.
ROCK ON MARIA! Be fabulous!
T19 M15 S19 XH47 M43 bomb12/4/07 PA5/07 S12/26/07 D final 11/17/08 Back together with no defined R 05/2010 confused....to say the least!!!
Good Morning, I think my days here, just like for some of my friends, are coming to an end. At least, that's how I feel lately.
Nothing happened yetsreday, no calls or anything. He didnt talk to the C and I said I dont even want to know now what they will talk about.
I dont want to file for D only to get some kind of reaction. It's not my style or my way of doing things. During this "crisis" with my H, I learnt that I should go for what I want and not for what I dont want hoping the other person will "save me" the last minute...
I have so much love inside me, I have been learning and reading and discussing and dealing with things I wouldnt have if he had not left ME. But he did leave ME and I had to deal with it. Thank God my anger and my hurt didnt blind me. I am still recognising patterns of my behavior that I dont like. Recently, motivated by SCs thread I went and looked into abuse, trying to figure out why some things sounded familiar. Well, I got my answer, we wre BOTH abusive with each other for quite some time. I guess that is what I used to call me being a b!tch and him going nuts. We abused each other with different ways but we both were hurting each other.
Anyway, I am thinking, sitting still for a ocuple of days and maybe I will have one last talk with him to try to express all the things I have been holding back... Maybe it will be our closure discussion. Maybe it will be the end. But, when there is an end, a beginning is coming.
I am terrified. I am thinking of all the things I thought of one year ago. How I will feel when he marries another woman, how will I feel when my kids will be happy with her, how on earth I will manage financially (facing an issue for the next 12 months, after that things will be more than OK), where will I be in 2 years, how will I deal with the kids when they are 13-15 years old, how my life's route was sidetracked, etc etc
Some nights I feel strong and hopeful, most nights lately I feel alone. Alone with the sense that I am...alone. It's me and myself, sleeping in an empty bed, waking up alone, having fun alone, worryig alone, dealing with things alone, the lack of a man/partner to "walk" with me, is killing me. I must be one of those co-dependent persons I think, how bad is that? LOL!!
Anyway, the truth is what I do now, is what is going to happen. H has no power to lead, no motivation obvioulsy and no way to do it. I am not going to file to see if this year he will man up. I want to file and then start live my life as a single. Date, feel love again, male plans, free myself from the past. I am in this sitch for more than 2 years now. I may not live another 2 years. Time is not on my side anymore and I am tired of feeling so torn inside.
Bill, I was going to post some, but I am tired. I agree with you only what I see in my sitch, H has now been making progress with himself. What he has been telling me for over 6 months now in comparison to what he told me when he left has changed completely, he has accepting his wrong doings, he is not blaming me anymore.
GFI (I think), what I wanted form him all along, was to show me he wants me. That he loves me. With a word, a touch, a look, with trying to be with me and not running away when the kids went to bed, to call me, to talk to me about his feelings so that I can understand, to tell me I did a good job with the kids the last year, to be patient with me, to make me feel safe to open up... I dont know know how to explain this, I dont doubt he loves me but that isnt enough because that is what I did the last years of our marriage. I didnt doubt it but I didnt feel it. I took as a granted and stopped requesting, expecting deposits at my love tank, and my love tank now, is empty. All I had left in me, I used it up last year. HE WOULD HAVE TO make deposits for me. He HAS TO. If he cant do it, I cant create it on my own.
Kenn, thanks for stopping by, I know all men are like kids some times, but right now I need the man-side of my H. Cant handle his kid side. I have 2 kids already.
Julia, he is doing something, I agree. Just NOT enough. Almost nothing.
Cory..., MATS!!!!! There. Lead, lead, lead... I cant anymore. Face it!!!
And yes, I think his agreement to D was his effort "to put me out my misery" because he loves me. I never heard what he wants and wishes. I am so sorry. SO very sorry.
Ha, yes thought that sounded funny, but plausible.. plans with males. Fair enough ! It is vindication, that your H is now no longer blaming you. Think back a year when you felt so hurt that he had walked out under all those angry worrds and you cried everyday for 4 months until March (?) as I did. My T told me to go back to the girl sat in that lounge when ex was ending it and put your arms around her and tell her its ok and what yuo know now... but somehow, its not as effective anymore as alot of that shock and hurt has subsided.
So I guess we have made so much progress hey! And look at them, only just beginning, feeling miserable and not knowing where to start to 'put things right' in their lives. Amazing.
I'm not sure if that was a good Pisces Moon or not, but theres a lot of explosive energy today and tommorow linked to it, so maybe there will be more conversations to be had, who knows.
