From my own personal experience, this type of argument / day is also part of the SSM recovery process. Over the past year or so, my wife and I have had variations on this exact same encounter, on more than one occasion, unfortunately, particularly the
W: "I just don't think I will ever be able to give you what you are wanting."
remark.
I'll add something to what DQ said:
"This is your answer, dear. This is her highest level of desire she can reach -at this point and time-. Please just face this answer and stop trying to change her."
At this point and time, your wife feels like her 'sexual engine' is running flat-out, in the Red Zone on the RPM meter. Adding sexual Horsepower to her engine and getting her into the Black again takes time, patience, experimentation, exploration, and dedication on both of your parts -- and I really wish you two had a therapist in the loop to help guide the both of you in the process.
At the same time, you're feeling like someone FINALLY took the govenor off your engine and gave you a little space to go above Idle Speed -- for the first time in years. It feels great, and you will have a *very strong* tendency to try and push things further and faster.
And thus you have arguments like the one you had. Your wife rightly feels like you keep "upping the bar" the instant she even comes close to reaching it at it's old setting. And if you keep doing this to her, she is likely to get discouraged and stop trying again. Her rejection triggers a very old, conditioned response in you, and you become angry and frustrated with her, despite the fact that she's running flat-out and working hard to make you feel more loved. I very nearly derailed my own SSM recovery a couple of times doing this exact thing.
Throttle back, and do more encouraging and praising --> she's in the game and trying: keep her there.
-- B.
(Three mixed metaphores in one post...a new record!)
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I still maintain that there is a differece here, because in B's case, he clearly laid out the facts to his W when they began this journey, and she knew full on, upfront, that if they couldn't fix their SSM that B was going to seek a separation or divorce.
Cinco's wife doesn't know this. She is trying anyway so for that, she should be given lots of credit. But what I'm getting at is that until she REALLY knows the consequences of her not trying harder, she will not try any harder.
I had a post and then ( my D10 and S9 are sick ) and I closed the window. Anyway. I agree with B~ Please don’t put her in a box or throw the baby out with the bath water.
I disagree with DQ~ Sorry D. I have been in Mrs Cincos shoes. { Didnt you leave once before Cinco?} It fcuking hurts, it is confusing and it seems no matter how hard you try you cant get it right and your h still seems unhappy. When my H told me he wanted to leave b/c I wasn’t sexual enough?
I thought what a fcuking coward. I put up with p q and x y and z and he is going to leave me for sex?
I know part of it is she does not “get” that she is the "beauty" you seek, you desire and you want. It isnt just about sex or excuse my French,,,,,,,,," P*ssy" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For a long time that is all I thought I was worth. My P*ssy or my sex. ????????? It sucked. I tried the sexy clothes, I read everything zi could get my hands on. I wantd to take Testosterone for Gods sake. Because I was LD frigid and a lost cause.
WRONG.
I woke up from my Coma and realized that I am the beauty my H seeks. It isnt my P8ssy or the way I give head or how flexible I am . It is ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DO NOT GIVE UP~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ She deserves some compassion. How scared or hurt must she be to have to say. Prostitutes… Wow.
I wil share this with you here. Me MRS so called LD? You know the famous 69 position? While hubby was here? He was sitting at the edge of the bed and I was facing him in this position and my head was down by ‘”him”. His mouth was on my V. I was in a hand stand so to speak if you can picture this. We did not see it in a book it just came to us. I was then able ( I am flexible ) to open my legs and I looked beautiful to him. I was moving like the dancers in Cirque de Soleil. It was so beautiful that day or sexual union. WE had a beautiful time. It was so much more than bump and grind. It took three years of blood sweat and tears and not giving up. Little Miss LD, and he told me was happy so very happy and we were both ready to cry. That is real love and progress. I just know you can have this too. ~*~ You love her Cinco, listen to B~ She is trying damn it. I honestly am getting upset and teary eyed thinking of how frustrated she must feel at times. I have compassion for her cause she was me 3 years ago. It hurts to have someone tell you you are broken and if you cant fix yourself at my rate then Fcuk you , see you later. It rips you apart. When you are done you are done, please stop threatening her unless you are going to leave. It hurts like hell. It never did anything to make me feel sexy. Quite the opposite actually. All my best to you Cinco, Ali
Ali, I'm not arguing here, but please understand exactly what I am trying to encourage Cinco to do. I'm not telling him to threaten her. I'm telling him to BE HONEST with her about his feelings. His feelings ARE that he doesn't think he wants to be married to her forever IF they cannot together find their passion for each other. His truth is NOT that "hey babe, put out more sex or I am outta here". If that was his truth, I would tell him to keep it to himself and would counsel him that he was being an ass. But what he really feels is that he wants her to find her passion for him and if she cannot find it, he does not know if he can commit to the marriage forever.
He has not threatened her at all (except that by mentioning it during fights, she probably felt threatened)....so when you said "please stop threatening her" I feel that you maybe think he has been doing that. He hasn't. But he also has not been HONEST with her completely about what he is thinking and feeling. The honesty is what she needs and deserves.
There are many women and men on this and other forums, whose husband or wife had been asking for passion for many years, then suddenly he or she has an affair and leaves or just leaves even without an affair....and the left behind spouse will say everytime "if he was that close to leaving, why didn't he/she SAY SOMETHING?!?!".
So everyone....I know it sounds like I am beating up on Cinco....but what I'm really doing is advocating transparency and honesty. I'm advocating that we all TALK about what is truly going on in our hearts and minds.
Ali - Cinco is a lot different than your H, I believe. Its hard to think of them in a comparative way, as I don't think there is much to compare.
One step back, two steps forward Cinco. I have been there myself quite recently. Don't beat yourself up about it, but do learn from the experience. I'm sure these are obvious, but just in case...What could you have done better in the situation? Why was that nerve raw and how come she was able to hit it?
Maybe a little more investment in yourself would heal those raw spots. Is it easy? Heck no! I'm still trying, but it is empowering when there are things YOU can work on instead of trying to change her.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
Ali - Cinco is a lot different than your H, I believe. Its hard to think of them in a comparative way, as I don't think there is much to compare.
I dont think they are the same either. Or that I am just like his Wife. That may not be his truth, but that is what the LD spouse hears. and my H never said fix yourself or I am fcuking out of here. I am just using how the setimnet comes across. I am not trying to argue either. I do hear over and over again on this board to throw the LD spouse away and this and that . I have been here since 06. I was/ am the LD one. The underliying tone of him being upset with her does make her feel threatened. Are you serious with this post ?
And no Cicno isn't verbally abusive. Hooray for that. I do have a brain DQ. I am not all t*ts and a**.
Bagheera - Thanks for the words of encouragement. That's what I should have been doing with her. That's why I'm so mad at myself. She has been doing better and then I went and pushed her instead of praising her.
... I'm glad to see you back here man. You are that voice of reason that I think really helps us around here. Especially us guys.
Ali - I know that she is feeling that she is trying so hard and I am still unhappy. She could be trying harder though... sexy clothes or reading? nada. But she is trying. I think I've said before that we have ML more in the last 9 months than the last 9 years. At least 6 of those times were very good. So she is trying.
I know I hurt her yesterday with the things that I said. I hate that I did this. Ali I want her to see that what I want is for us to find a way to love each other that feels real and true. I don't want to pressure her or make her feel broken. I have told her that there is nothing wrong with her, that we have just lost our connection to each other. Let's find a way back into each other's arms.
DQ - "His feelings ARE that he doesn't think he wants to be married to her forever IF they cannot together find their passion for each other." This is exactly right. I don't know how to let my honesty get through to her. I have tried so many different ways to tell her. Maybe it just isn't clear to her what it is I am trying to say.
Ali and DQ: Make up right now. I can't have my girls fight. No way. We are a united force in search of true love. United we stand, divided we fall!
Ali: OMG. Your passion and pain ring loud and clear. I think you were brought to all of us so that we can see the torment that our LD spouses might be feeling. Even if they look like they don't care on the outside. When HDs are hurting, it is so much easier to see our own anguish and to think that there is a slight possibility that our LD partners are selfish, lazy, they don't care, they intentionally want to hurt us... When, really, they are just clamming up and feeling inadequate and lower than low.
Cinco: "Maybe it just isn't clear to her what it is I am trying to say." So, I want to be sure I understand. You WANT to say to your W: "Either we achieve x, y, and z in our intimacy or I am going to file for divorce in May." Is that right? If so, and you are truly ready to say it, then you can just say exactly that. Have you said exactly that? I don't think so. That is a real, scaarrrrryyyy boundary. Because then you just might have to do it.
Ali: Upside-down 69??? What the... Can you draw a picture for me? I'm so confused. [trying to stand on my head and figure this out...]
"I do have a brain DQ. I am not all t*ts and a**."
I don't see how that could come out of what I was saying at all. You know I love you and respect you and that I know you have a brain so...???
Anyway, peace darling.
DQ
Peace to you 2. It is more along the lines of what Lucky stated. ( I get very passionate about defending Mrs Cinco at times, I have been in her shoes) Not you nor I can read Mrs Cincos mind. So I was trying to put my raw feelings out there to let Cinco know how it can feel when you don't understand what the HD partner means.
Quote:
Cinco wrote~ Maybe it just isn't clear to her what it is I am trying to say.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY WITH MY NOVEL LIKE VERY REVEALING EMOTIONALLY POST~!~!
MY H wanted "beauty" = "passion" and all I heard was "you suck in bed."
I am not as eloquent as B~ Please post to Cinco more often B~ Also DQ~ post more often to him too. That is what makes boards great diversity and different perspective. I wasn't trying to argue with you either,,,, but please let me be me. Your reply to me sounded a bit condescending. ????????? For some reason? You did hurt my feelings.
I knwo this whole LD things strikes a nerve with me. Love you too DQ~ I am fine. Ali
