Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums For Newcomers I feel so lost and so tired

I dont' even know where to start. I never picture myself posting in a place like this.

My thoughts are all over the place these days, and there is so much to tell, so I'll just try to give a big picture.

But a quick recap of what has happened is that my wife of 10yrs dropped the bomb on me a couple months ago. She said that she wants a divorce because she doens't feel any love for me and that she feels like we have lived like roommates for awhile now. In retrospect, I can see why she felt this way. We have a 4yr old child, and since the birth, and I even felt like we never had any time together anymore. I felt all alone and lonely for a long time after the birth, and and I guess she did too. I've just started reading Divorce Remedies and I can really see how we had a bad cycle of things we each were inadvertently were doing to each other, while feeling lonely at the same time. She wanted to do this and that and see a counselor, I wanted her to come home earlier or come back downstairs after putting our son to bed so we could spend time together. But neither one of us really responded to the other cause we both wanted to do things our way. And I think we both withdrew from each other more and things would get worse, although ironically, we both wanted the same thing in the first place. And we also did have the fights about such things as helping with the chores around the house, which I do realize that I didnt' do my part in, but all of which ties into other bad cycles of things we were doing to each other inadvertantly.

But it really doesn't matter how we got to where we are now, or the fact that we can see what happened along the way, because the problem is that she has no feelings for me now. And according to her, she even sees all the positive changes I have made in the past few months, but she just doesn't love me anymore and wants to move on cause she sees no possibility of loving me again. What hurts even more is that she says between her past IC and reading self help books, and self reflection, she realizes that she never really loved me that much in the beginning. I'm trying to just chaulk that comment up to her state of mind right now, or else I think feelings of anger, hurt or mistrust will start to grow in my head.

But I have been trying to focus on improving myself, and have in the past few weeks learned that I do need to stop 'pursuing' and let her have space. We were in MC together for the past month, but we had our last session last night. She doesn't want to do it anymore. She says she doesnt' get anything out of it, and is already 'healed' from her past IC and doesnt' need to work on healing for the marriage anymore...and that she now only wants time and space to think and maybe see if she even misses me. Since we started the MC, I know she didnt' really want to do go. Its ironic cause she wanted us to go for MC a long time ago, but I didn't really know we had such serious issues and didnt' know why we would need to see an MC. And now we are in the reverse position.

I am halfway through reading the DR book, and I am trying to stay strong, but it is hard.....really, really hard.

Now, it seems we barely talk except for small talk for 30min at dinner time. We have no physical contact. It used to be her putting our son to bed and falling asleep in his bed, while I was all alone hoping she would come back downstairs to spend time. But now I have been putting our son to bed and sleeping in his bed, just cause I'm so tired all the time now, and I want to give her space.

I dont' know what to do or what I'm supposed to be doing right now. I'm so confused. I've changed many things as a person recently, and I think she has noticed...which is good. But I don't know if her stopping with the MC last night changes things for the worse or not since she never wanted to do the MC anyway. But I think the fact that she says she needs space to think and see if she can miss me is a sign that she isn't 100% decided to divorce yet, but it still feels like she's 99% decided.

One of the things she mentioned in MC is that she doesn't like the way I communicate with her. Although I never mean to communicate in a way that makes her feel bad, but I guess it comes across that way. And the counselor asked her if it would help if that changed, and she said maybe. So I think I also will be trying to find a good book on better communication habits/techniques.

You can probably tell that my thoughts are all over the place. And they are. I have been so lost, so lonely, so confused, so everything you can think of for the past couple months. I dont' know if she has any idea how much she really means to me and how much I love her, and I dont' know if she even cares anymore. I dont' really have anyone to talk to. My close friends have all moved away, and I dont' feel that close to them anymore. And I dont' want to tell family about this cause I don't want them to think negatively about her in the chance that we do make it through this.

I don't know if I should be or can be doing anything else right now except improve myself, try to fix any 'flaws' in myself that contributed to the situation I'm in, and just be cordial and give her her space for now. Though I'm partly posting just to talk cause I feel I have noone to talk to, any thoughts would be appreciated. And any recommendations of a good book to be a better communicator would be appreciated too.

Hey SoTired,

Sorry you are here, but happy you found your way to this forum. This is a great place for support, perspective, a place to vent, and a place to get feedback when everything just seems so confusing and surreal. There are people here in exactly the same situation as you are (like me) and at various stages in the DB/DR process.

I would recommend that you read through a bunch of the threads on newcomers, and comment on ones that are similar to yours. Set up your "Watch Lists" (under "My Stuff" above) so you can track what's going on with people you connect with. You'll be surprised how much great information you can get reading other peoples stories, and feedback they get, because so many of us are living the same nightmare, even though it feels like you are all alone in the universe. By posting on other peoples threads, they will start to post on yours, and before you know it, you will have a support network.

You should also set up a signature at the bottom of your thread (in preferences) to just give a quick picture of your sitch - look at mine, and you can probably figure out the abbreviations, but if not, there is a thread in archives that explains them.

Hang in there, it's a long bumpy road, and not one for the faint of heart, but you will find that it is doable, and for many, it leads to a better self and a better relationship, whether it's with your W, your kids, your family or friends, or God.

Also, read this, or even better, bookmark and read it every day. It has great advice. Create a document of 'DB tips' and read it every day. It helps.

Stay Strong

SoTired,

I am really sorry you are here, but this is a good place to be if you are in the predicament we are in. There are a lot of helpful and knowledgeable people here. I just started and am in a similar sitch as you.

I agree with Song about reading, watching, and posting in other threads that are similar to your sitch.

I just started here and already have learned a tremendous amount about what to do. I know its gonna take a while and hopefully things will come around. Hang in there!!!

Thank you both for your replies and support. I'll update my sig later when I get more time. And I did just spend sometime reading other people's threads.

One thing that I see that is confusing me is that alot of people are doing these 180's and things such as 'don't pursue' or things that seem to be about not really showing attention to the spouse and just focus on yourself. It seems so conterintuitive to me since I think not paying enough attention is partly why I'm in this spot right now. I can see this being effective maybe for spouses that are still feeling something in the marriage but are fed up about certain things, but what about cases where the spouse is sure she has no feelings left about you? I am so deathly afraid of anything I do backfiring right now.

One of the things you need to realize is that alot of the stuff you need to do is for YOU not the R. Doing things that make you happy will make you more attractive, is the hope, to your wife. The other side to that is if it doesn't work you are in a better place mentally.

Hello So Tired, my name is Sandi and I want to welcome you to our community here on the DB board. We are like a big family and that includes a lot of different personlities and how some write all sweet with smiley faces and some are tough as nails, some write long (like me) and some can say it is a half dozen words. Sometimes we might not like what one person has to say if it hits us a little too hard, but all in all as I said.....like a family. So, I hope you will become part of the family as long as you need to and it is very important to understand that you need to post every day that you can b/c if you don't stick with us, then this is not going to work.

So, that is my introduction....LOL. Seriously, I can understand so much about how your wife is feeling and I hope that I can help whether the reasons we got to where we were feeling out of love with our H's were the same or not. I will have to ask a lot of questions and I hope you won't mind, but that is what it takes to find out more about a couple and the more we know, the more we can help. You have met a couple more newcomers, but I'm not one. I've been around for a while and it's not that me and my H still have the problems we were having, but b/c this board saved my M and probably my life so I want to give back as much as I can. I will encourage you to reach out to others and reply to their posts so they will come find you. That will help build up your support group faster.

May I ask if your wife named any particular things that made her feel that she had lost feeling in love with you? Also, does she say that she just plain does not love you anymore or that she doesn't feel "in love" with you? That is important to know.

I can understand couples experiencing different transition periods during M. My H and I have gone through more than a couple ourselves. If you are M for a long time, it is going to happen b/c you are growing as individuals and as a couple, plus you are getting older with more and more changes happening down through life. Nothing stays the same, so you have to get through those transitionsal periods. They are not fun, either.

You said things seem to have changed after the baby was born. Was it b/c all of her attention seem devoted to the child? BTW, does she work outside the home? I wondered by her falling asleep while lying down with him if she was that exhausted or if she was advoiding you.

I know a lot of women are having children when they get older now than thinking they have to have their family before they reach 30. However, if she does work outside the home, it may be taking a greater physical drain on her than she realizes. Does she talk about that any to you? Another thing that might be considered is depression. Did she seemed depressed after the baby was born.....or since? Has she kept a close yearly exam about her "female" health? She may even need to see a specialist about her hormone levels b/c that can affect women in ways you wouldn't believe.

As far as you not helping out with chores around the house and things like that......it can cause a woman frustration but I doubt it makes a woman stop loving her H. So, I'm going to cut to the chase here, okay? If all questions about her physical condition are removed, then that leaves the emotional. If the two of you have stopped going out and visiting with friends and family and basically having a social life, that could be having a great affect on her. Again, I would think that you would have seen signs of depression if she doesn't have much social life. How has your intimate life changed since the baby was born? If she has not seemed as interested in sex, then that leads us back to seeing a good doctor about her hormone levels. Having a child can screw that up and a woman has to have medical help sometimes to get it back on track again. Has she acted cold toward you when you wanted sex? If so, has it just started within the past months or has it basically been since having the baby?

Have there been any major changes besides having a baby? For an example, a new career change, moving away from family or anything like that? Did she seem to suddenly change of was it over a period of time? Does she spend a lot of time reading or on the computer? What does she do in her spare time?

I apologize for so many questions, but I have my reasons for asking.

I noticed you are like a lot of other new folks in that you are leary about pulling back and giving your wife space b/c it was the fact that she needed more of your attention and did not receive it that mainly got to this problem. I can understand why men would think that way, but I was exactly like your wife and I did not want my H touching me and could not stand to be in the same room with him, therefore, I hope you will listen to me when I tell you that it has been too little too late for all that attention giving attempts on your part now. If you smoother her with your presence now, it will only push her farther away until you have pushed her right out the door. Trust me! What you have to do is the very opposite of what you "think" you should be doing at this time. You pull back away from her and leave her alone! You give her all the space she needs and time alone. How do you do that? You do that by finding something for YOU to do while she is home. You stay busy and give her of free time. You either take care of the baby while she is doing something else, or you get out of the house and go somewhere and give her the entire house without you there. That is what she needs and if you love her, you will do that for her. I promise you this....if you continue to push your attentions off on her, she will leave you....you can count on it. She is very fragile right now and so much depends on how you handle all of this.

You have probably stopped doing things you use to enjoy doing. Either some sport or hobby, or seeing old friends, etc. That can make us become very boring when we do not do anything "fun" in our lives. I know, you thought you were being a good H and dad. Well, maybe you were but somewhere along the way,things got boring and you are not as interesting as you once were. So, you need to make a point to leave the house and find somewhere to go look around or something to do to stay busy. If nothing more, go buy some new clothes and get a sharp new wardrobe. Get a new look! I would ask a professional with help in that area and not go wild and crazy with some new look....lol.

I don't suggest nightclubs and places like that b/c it leads to things that could get you into trouble. Certainly don't turn to women friends b/c that is certainly a "no-no" during this time. Never lie to your wife, but you can be vague about your answers and not go into details about where you've been or what you were doing. That makes you a bit mysterious and she may find that interesting. If she is the type to "pick you" for answers, just smile and say nothing. That will teach her! Never be rude or ugly to her, but be "cool" (as the kids say). Don't talk her ears off and keep your words limited.........for now while going through this period of trouble. I hope you know what I mean and stay balanced with this and don't go off the deep end. I am surprised at what some people think when they read advice given to them.

We will talk more about all these things later. For now let me say that she is probably very tired of counseling and doesn't want to talk about the MR. Therefore, don't bring up the subject of the MR at all. Don't try to get her to read you DR book or anything else. Don't tell her that you are reading it nor discuss it with her b/c it is strickly your game plan for your M and you don't give your game plan to the opposing team, right? Keep it out of sight and don't read it in front of her. She will not like that b/c she will take it the wrong way. Don't talk about future plans. Don't point out the good points of being M. Don't make remarks about how sad it would be if the son grew up with D parents. I promise you that she will nearly despise you every time you say anything like that. It is putting another nail in the coffin.

One more thing and then I'll let you go think on these things. Have you ever thought that she may be getting emotionally involved with anyone? Have you noticed her TMing anyone a lot on the phone or leaving the room to talk on her phone? Have you noticed her being on the computer and when you enter the room she shuts down the screen she was on and shows something else? Does she have any type of meetings with male friends or co-workers that do not include you? I'm not trying to be offensive, but trying to get to the root of what is causing her to think she no longer loves you.

Hope you will answer my questions so we can proceed with further talk as soon as possible b/c I am afraid she is not going to keep staying there in the house with you. But, don't agree to leave the house and don't offer to help her if she starts talking about leaving. Stay under the same roof as long as you can. I'll explain more later. In the meantime, try to stay out of the same room and give her some space over the weekend. When you are around her, try to keep things light and fun and never get "down" or act all glummy and serious. Nobody enjoys being around a person who is not fun to be with. So, try to keep a PMA.

I have so much that I want to cover but it can't be done in one post. So, please come back as soon as you can.

Take care,
Sandi

SoTired,

I'm so happy Sandi has found you and given you words of advice so quickly into your journey. She knows what she is talking about, and has helped many people on this forum, myself included. Here's a list of tips that Sandi has given to newcomers like us. Print it out, read it a couple of times each day, and live it. Think of it as a cliff notes version of DB.

Sandi’s List

1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!

2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!

4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.

6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.

7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.

8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)

9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.

10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)

11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)

12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.

13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.

14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.

15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.

16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.

17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.

19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.

20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.

22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.

23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!

24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!

25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.

26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).

27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.

28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.

29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.

30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.

31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.

32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.

35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.

36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.

37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.

Hi Sandi,

Thank you so much for your insight...it really helps out. I'll try to answer all the questions as best I can.

First, I believe its more of the I don't love you, and not just the I dont feel i dont' love you. She has said that she feels that I'm like a brother or roommate right now and not a spouse.
From my perspective, I think alot of things did change after the baby. After much reflection and from what I learned so far in the book, there were so many things that caused this whole mess. I see now that it's completely true that everything affects everything and no one person is really the sole cause. One example, I can think of now is that during the pregnancy, she got tired early and started going to bed early too. We both used to stay up till ~midnight together. After the baby, she would take him to bed and fall asleep with him early too. Our first mistake was that we let him sleep in our bed and he got used to it and we couldn't get him out of our bed again.
So then, usually after 7-8pm, I'm all alone. I was lonely alot, but had to understand that the baby came first, and if the wife was tired...then she was tired. And any intimacy between us was kinda gone cause now we have a baby in our bed, in addition to having different sleep schedules. So eventually I found something to occupy my time too. I had friends that got me to play an online game with them at night. I had fun cause people actually wanted to do something with me.
We eventually bought a new house, and we had my computer and stuff in the basement. She was still going to bed early and now just sleeping with our son in his bed cause he wouldn't go to sleep without one of us there. She tried to wake up after he fell asleep, but after awhile couldn't. I would try to wake her to come back downstairs but alot of times she was too sleepy, and so I kinda gave up trying. I just started getting on the computer by myself at night. There were some nights, maybe once every other week, where she couldnt' sleep and would come downstairs, but I'd be in the basement. She would complain the next day that I was busy with the computer and that I didnt' want to do anything. But I'd get kinda mad cause I'm thinking that I can't be just sitting up everynight hoping she'd come downstairs waiting for her.

She would say that I should be doing housework every night instead of being on the PC, which I thought was unfair. Of course I look back now and see that it made me withdraw, which made her withdraw also. Its a vicious cycle that I see now.

But we are very cordial to each other right now. She doesn't seem angry at all. But I dont' know if thats a good or bad thing, cause maybe she doesn't even have enough feelling left to be angry or anything.

I don't know if it's all a part of a MLC that she is having, and maybe our issues pushed her into it. But in the past year, she has been starting to do yoga, try to eat less (to lose weight I assume), recently had her teeth whitened, been going out to see friends more, have kinda asked about getting a new car every few weeks or so, and has basically reevalualted her entire life and came to conclusions that maybe she didn't love me as much in the beginning and it was her insecurities that made her stick with me even in the beginning. Even just now, she just got home from meeting friends for breakfast.

I've just been trying to do things to improve myself lately. She does know about me reading Divorce Busting/Divorce Remedy cause she saw them, and asked me about them. Not too many places to hide books here, esp since the den is basically her den. But I did take them and put them away somewhere last night. One thing that I have been doing is started looking into taking the LSAT for law school. She is a lawyer and always did try to get me to consider law school. I never was interested but reorgs at my work have made me look into it as an option. And she seems interested in me studying for it and has tried to help me out on questions. But I don't want to ask her for too much help or she might think I'm doing it cause of our situation.

I edited the above post too much and it won't let me do it again.


But to answer the other question, I dont' believe she is involved emotionally with anyone else. I've flat out asked her about an affair once at home and once at counseling and she says there isn't. But she did say that one of the male colleagues did tell her that he was starting to get feelings for her at one point and actually went for help to get rid of the feelings cause he has a family too. She says there is no way she could be ever involved with him, but says that he is still a friend and she did enjoy talking to him. So maybe she likes the attention? Or it makes her think that there are so many fish in the sea that she doesn't need to be 'stuck' with me?

But in counselling she said that she does enjoys talking to other people more than myself. She says part of it is she doesn't like the way I communicate. Although I think part of that is that she seems to be now always be assuming the worst from whatever I say although it isn't meant that way. I guess I can accept that I'm not the best communicator so I already have a book on better communication skills coming in the mail. Plus when the counselor asked if she thought that if I was a better communicator if it would make a diffference, she did pause and then did say yes. So I took note of that and hope that the answer was a genuine one, and will try to work on being a better communicator.

Song,

Thnx for reposting that list. I read it and reread it, and it does help remind me to keep focusing on certain things.