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"Your paranoid" and "its' your imagination" are the phrases my wife used too but as always there is another man.

Call her on her statements such as "it will never work because you are so paranoid". The fact that she's hiding it so much is a good sign...means she's scared of being caught. If she didn't care for you at all she'd do the other cheater maneuver which is "I'm already emotionally divorced from you anyway".

I would say, "know what? I'm not stupid. You are right...it isn't going to work between us, because a marriage needs TRUE openness and honesty. I really can't believe you would insult my intelligence like this. Have you decide where you are going to live yet? You should probably start looking if you haven't already."

Hi there, so glad you came here for help. If you will stick with us, you will stand the best chance of getting your M back on track, but you must do what the DR book teaches and what you are advised by those that have been in shoes like yours. I have to admit that I am surprised that the two of you have stayed together this long if you have been dating since Jr. High School days. The couples I have known personally who have done that, usually go through a S or worse during their M b/c they feel like they have never been with anyone else and frakly get......what would be a good word to use?.......none of them are good, so I'll just say it.....they get bored, burned out, or whatever and start to thinking what it would be like to have dated other people. I think the two of you have been very blessed to have had the great R you've had all these years before M and during, so with your history going for you, that is something to hang onto to have positive thoughts about.

I also had an EA and my first thoughts would be that she wants to get away and to stay away from you. She wants her space and her privacy. I would tell you to go dark, but with small children, that is impossible to do if you intend to keep seeing them on a regular basis. So, I will tell you this instead.......pull back.......way, way, way back from her. She wants to know how it feels to not be married and she is probably going to "act it out" and it is going to hurt you if you don't brace yourself for what is probably ahead. You must not look at her as the girl that you've always loved and was always so sweet and loving and the person you've been M to all these years and the mother of your children and all of that stuff. You want to know why? B/c she is not going to act like it and you will come on here saying over and over again, why is she doing this, how can she do this, where is the girl I've always known, etc. She will seem like a complete stranger to you by her actions. I want you to be prepared as best as you can for the worst b/c I think she will put you through the wringer. That is not to say that your M cannot be saved! It can be, if you do what you are advised and if she is smart and doesn't do something to really screw her life up.

You need to resolved yourself to expect a long, long time before she is ready to settle back down to a M life with you. Right now, that is the fartherest thing from her mind. She doesn't want it! She doesn't want you! The OM is making her feel wonderful, special, sexy, young, beautiful, and anything else that she has wanted for a long time. It is flattering to her ego that a man younger than her would even want to look at her much less think of a possible affair. He is feeding her ego everythime she hears from him and she is as addicted to that as any drug she could ever take. I know, I didn't believe it the first time I heard it either! But, it is true, and it is very hard to overcome the power of an EA. I have go to leave for just s short while, but will be back to talk to you. I want to help you as much as I can. I do talk plain, so I hope you can take that, but I believe in telling it like it is. So, I'll get back in a few.

Sandi

Sandi is right. I am dealing a similar situation. My W is wayward right now and I am Sep.. You must be prepared for the what may come and realize you have NO control over what she may do. It took me awhile to be at peace with that. Does it bother me every day. Yes.

I had to ask myself, really ask myself, do I love her enough to go through this? At this point yes, down the road who knows? As you GAL and focus on changing yourself it starts to strengthen you. You become able to detach from it more and more while still being open to piecing it back together.

Until the OM/EA/PA is over she won't hear anything you have to say and the more you engage her the more she feels trapped and will run straight to him.

I understand the panic, anxiety, fear, all of that. You have been together a very long time. It's normal. But if you listen to the folks here and ask questions and get support here or rant/vent, it will help you transition and get yourself back.

I am no expert but feel what you're going through. The road back is not quick so set your expectations now and the roller coaster will slow down a bit.

By the way, if you want to see someone (of many) who went through hell and put it back together better than it ever was look up a member by the name of Geoforce. His story is inspirational. Read all of the the posts. Watch the transition, but most of all see how he let go.. It will help..

V

Okay, I’m back. I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that you really did mistreat her b/c you brought all that up yourself and admitting to taking her for granted and for talking badly to her. I don’t know if you realize this or not, but that bad talking is a form of verbal abuse even if you never use a cuss word. If you call her names or put her down or constantly criticize her, you might as well sprinkle poison all over your MR. You are driving her farther and farther away from you every time you do that. The thing about women is that they may not always tell you that and you may think you are getting by with that behavior. You may even think they have forgiven you, what all they have really done is push it down deep within their heart. That is not good b/c when it does surface, it is usually in a stitch such as this. Even if she has not mentioned it, I am sure she holds resentments from the way you treated her in the past. Any woman would. You promised to love and cherish her. You don’t treat a girl you cherish like that! You are probably think, “yeah, well, you don’t have an EA on your H, either”. You are right, one shouldn’t have an EA. I am not taking sides, even if right now it may sound as though I am, but I’m trying to get you to think from her POV at the moment. I’m sure her self-esteem must have been low if you had been talking to her like that and taking her for granted. You can’t ignore a flower and expect it to grow and bloom and be beautiful for you. It takes a lot of your time and attention. So, does a wife. It is sad that so many H’s don’t “get it” until it is almost too late. I want you to get it and get it good and proper so that you will never do this again, whether it is with her or in another R. You need to know how to treat women and if you have not learned, you need to go get some books and do a lot of reading and learn how b/c I don’t think your W is going to take any more of your crap. So, you will either have to make up your mind to do a lot of personal changing or else find another woman.

Some people actually think beginning a new R is easier that restoring an old one, and that may be true………except for the children…….and the family members……..and your history together……and the vows (I think you get the picture). Anyway, we want to bust this divorce, right? So, we will have to discuss some painful things and be honest and plan what you need to do about yourself and how to draw your wife back to you and the M.

You must accept the fact that you cannot control anything she wants to do. If she wants to have an EA, she will have it and you can’t stop her. She will find a way somehow to do it. So, the sooner you come to terms with your lack of control over “her actions”, the better for you.

As I said before, she wants time away from you and she doesn’t want anyone poking their noses into her business b/c more than likely her business is all about the OM. She wants to have privacy to do whatever she pleases and not answer to anyone. She wants to feel free and single b/c she feels that she has been tied to one male since the 7th grade. Sure she wanted it all back then, but we are talking about now.

Most H’s want to pursue, pressure and smother their WAW’s. That is the very worst thing you can do. They walk away b/c they don’t want to be near you. That should be a strong hint, huh? However, I have discovered while being on this board that a lot of men do not realize they are pursuing by doing certain things. So, we may discuss some of that too. For now, do not call her or TM or email her unless it is almost an emergency regarding one of the kids of family members. Don’t use the children to get to her. In other words, don’t call to tell the kids goodnight just to get to say a few words to her. That is an example of pursuing. The less she hears from you at this time, the better. She needs to miss you. Has she ever gone very long without hearing or seeing you since the 7th grade? That is a loooong time! She needs to “miss” you but with the kids, that is not probably going to happen, but you can stop calling, and going by to “check up on her” and all the other means of contact. It is funny the many excuses M people find to make contact with their WAS. BTW, if she should call you first, be sure to find a reason to hang up first and don’t linger on the phone. If she TM’s or emails, don’t respond right away (unless it is an emergency). In other words, play a little hard to get! If you are not so available to her, then you become more of a challenge to her and she gets more interested in you. Therefore, it needs to be your goal to become much, much less available. How do you do that? By getting a life of your own that does not include her. All these years she has probably been a very big part of your life, so find those things you like to do, such as sports, hobbies, etc. to get involved in. I strongly advise to stay away from scenes that cause a lot of temptation to flirt and do a lot of “looking” at the opposite sex. You are a M man and even if she is not acting M, you need to conduct yourself as a M man and do not flirt with OW and certainly don’t even consider dating.

When it is your turn to keep the kids, plan special times with them that are fun and make them feel special. They will go back home talking all about it. However, don’t question them anything about their mother. Don’t even talk about her unless they ask a direct question you can’t get around.

Find thing to do to stay out of the house and to keep busy. Really, really work at not focusing your attention on your W. Right now, you are obsessed with her and you will have to work extremely hard to get over that. Staying busy and staying away from her will help if you won’t constantly be asking others about her and what she is doing. If you work at the same place, that is going to be tough, but there is another approach you can do about that…..so don’t let me forget to get back to that subject. You don’t have to do big things to stay unavailable to her phone calls, emails, etc. You can be out at the mall looking around or at friends’ house, or anything simple. Just b/c she rings you…..you don’t have to immediately call back. Oh, and BTW, just b/c she may ask you questions about your whereabouts, etc., you don’t have to answer. Now, never lie to her. But, you can just smile. You can be rather vague about your answers. It is none of her business what you do or where you go, just as it is none of your business about her……except where the children and family are concerned.

You are never rude, crude, obnoxious, or any other unattractive behavior to her. In fact, you want to become as attractive in your behavior as possible. Therefore, be practicing on your charming personality. Does it need a little polishing? I bet you know how to turn the charm on when you want to. So, don’t treat her like you are mad at her or hurt or anything like that. You don’t act like a love starved puppy dog following her around for any crumbs she throws your way. You show a strong, self-confident male that is charming and……..here is the important part of working at the same place of business as she does……..you treat her just like any other employee. That will do things you could never imagine! But, it will all be good in the end (LOL). When at work, you talk nice and friendly, but never pursuing, chasing, pressure tactics, etc. Never, ever talk about the marriage or relationship. Don’t bring up family if at all possible. Whenever she asks you a question that catches you off guard and you don’t know what to say, just tell her that you’ll think about it and get back to her. So what if she doesn’t like it? Big deal. She can get over it. The reason I am saying this is b/c you once were the one that treated her badly……..but now you are going to see her start repaying you for that treatment. Never let her see that she has hurt you by what she says. Never lose your cool b/c as long as you can stay calm, you have won. However, the minute you allow her to make you lose your temper, she has won that battle regardless of how small or large it is.

You are going great by the weight you have already lost. You might want to think of updating your wardrobe or getting a different hair cut. Always, always wear great smelling cologne. Men have laughed at this advice and then come back and tell me how the wonderful affects it has on women. I know!! That is why I am telling you to always have it on. Make it a practice to never leave the house without putting some on, and after you shower put it on. Women love it!! If you know her favorite, then that is a feather in your cap. Always look clean and good even if wearing a pair of jean and a T-shirt. Act sexy. After M, I think some of us forget how to act like sensual beings. So, practice (if you have to) acting sexy again. Also, practice talking soft and low when speaking to a woman unless you have to use authority with a female employee, then you speak low and firm. Never raise your voice b/c it is a sign of losing control.

So, we have talked about your behavior, your charm, personality, staying unavailable, smelling good, looking great, acting sexy, and other things. And we are just getting started! But, why have I brought all of these things up? B/c most of the time, we tell a person that they need to become the person their spouse fell in love with and to try to act like you did then. Well, I don’t think you need to act like you are in 7th grade again….LOL. However, you can improve yourself to be the best person you possibly can become and if she can love that person, then you know you have done all that you could. We are going to talk about steps to take in a couple of days, but for now, I hope you will take all of this very serious and work on what I have talked to you about. I also hope you will set three short-term personal goals for yourself. Make them about YOU, not your wife. It may have to do with exercise (Which, BTW, is the greatest source of getting rid of frustration and obtaining energy. It also fights depression!) or it may have to do with getting involved in church activities since you have gotten back on track with God (glad to hear that, too). But, whatever it is, make it obtainable. Plan your weekends so you don’t stay home and get depressed. If special events are coming up soon…..plan ahead. That is the name of the game about GAL.

I have talked a long time (which I am famous for) but I can’t help it. I want to help so much with newcomers. If you’ll stick with us and post to us regularly, I promise it will help you. Right now, YOU are the one we want to start helping…..okay? You can come here to vent when you are upset (but tell us in advance that is what you are doing so somebody don’t get a 2x4 a hold of you….LOL) But, don’t vent or lose your cool in front of your wife. You can come here and cry, but not in front of her. Express all your emotions and feelings here, but not to her……not at this time. Stay cool, calm and collected in her presence and don’t let her push your buttons. Walk away before you allow that to happen.

Okay, I promise, I am going to stop for now.

Take care and I hope you will get to work on this ASAP.

Sandi

Opps, almost forgot to bring something up. About leaving those cards by her bedside table......that is pursuing. Don't leave books lying around for her to read, or any keepsakes to make her think about the two of you in the past, or any suggestions on shows about M or anything like that. She will resent it more than I can begin to explain to you. Just take my word for it, it is a huge turn-off.

Oh, one more thing..... I keep thinking of things. Just b/c you left the second time, she is still a WAW at heart and needs to be treated as such. That is why I refer to her as that. She had the EA and she wants to be away from you. It doesn't really matter at this point who left, b/c she is the one that wants out of the M. Okay, I'll try not to come back again for a few minutes anyway.

Sandi, all I can say is WOW! I think I have learned more in these last 10 minutes reading your posts than I can begin to explain There is so much here I don't know where to begin. I guess first, a little update. W had a school board meeting tonight and I got home around 5:15 to get S and D so she could leave. I was nice but not didn't say a lot. Kids and I played basketball in the driveway for a while and then went out to dinner. D asked me why I wasn't home and it was very uncomfortable, but I had to say that mom and I were working on things (she knows we are having trouble) and she needed space right now so I will still be there for them but just not there every night. They were both aware of the last SEP that lasted a week and when W came back to me and I moved back in, I really thought things were on the upswing and I wouldn't ever leave again. Now D thinks I am a liar and was upset, but finally got over it and we had a good rest of the night. We had a little AI party before they went to bed.

W got home at 9:00 and I asked her how the meeting went and was nice but not overly and definitely not pursuing. Then said bye and left. So I hope this was a good first start here. We had a hard day, but tomorrow is a new day and I will take your strategy to heart.

One note, we do not work together. She is a stay at home mom, I just work for her father and with my BIL. So that part, while still hard, its not like I will see her all day everyday.

As far as the GAL, I told her that I am leaving on Friday to go to Dallas to see my sis for the weekend and already told her I am going with 2 friends to the Keys for a fishing trip. So again, that is a start. Also, in addition to my morning workouts, I have started playing basketball at lunch with a bunch of friends 3 days a week. I am in a men's fraternity at church (sounds weird) but its a 13 week study on how to become a better man, H, parent, ect. Made some really close friends there especially my minister who is quickly becoming a mentor to me. He has taken me under his wing and counsels me each week after our meeting. Don't worry about me going clubbing or trying to date. No matter how bad this gets, my number one goal is to DB this M!!!!

I appreciate you being frank and honest with me. I know that I screwed up but at least NOW I KNOW and can change those behaviors (even if too late for W).

I guess the hardest part for me right now is pulling back and away b/c we have been together SO long (almost a third of our lives) that I don't know life without her.

I get you about the cards, notes, ect. That part is over for me. I way over-pursued at first. She has said a number of times that I have done more in the last month or so than in our first 12 years of marriage combined. She has acknowledged the changes she has seen in me so far and is proud of me for doing that. Also, I know that I left yesterday and in a weak moment last night, I told her that I thought it was a mistake and I wanted to come back and she said no. We never gave the first SEP a chance and we needed to this time. I guess deep down I agree with her but my sis and minister friend are adamant that I go home.

Please stick with me and guide me through this process. I am willing to gather my strength and patience and go at this for the long haul. Thank you again!

Well you sound very good to me! It sounds like you have had an awakening, as Michelle talks about in her book. BTW, be sure to read all the book as soon as you can. That is your "tool box" and it is for only you. You are not to tell your W about what it discusses. You are not to tell her about this board or any other means you are using to help you. That would be like giving your game plan to the opposing team. You will be excited and anxious for her to notice all the changes in you that you are working so hard on. But, never "ask" her if she notices b/c that will lose any ground work you've done and besides it sounds immature to do that. These remarks I make such as this one, does not mean that I think you will do that, but these are some general things I say to most newcomers. I don't want to just assume that you "know" what to do and not to do.

I think you handled yourself good and you will get better as each day passes if you work on your goals and stay focused on you and your life instead not you and your wife. If you get focused on your wife, you will try to analyze every word she says and everything she does or doesn't say/do. That will nearly drive you crazy if you get into that nitch. Most all newcomers are already there by the time they come to this board, but you can work your way out of it. Also, don't worry about any mistakes you've made since the break-up b/c it cannot be undone. Look at each day as a new slate to try again. There will probably be times that you will backslide a little bit b/c most people do. DBing is hard b/c of the person's stitch, not b/c the principles are hard. We are emotional creatures and also you have had time to get rather set in your ways/habits and that is hard to break/change. However, the good news is, you are still plenty young enough that it won't be as hard as it would be for a person much older and besides, we can do about anything we want to do--if we set out minds to it. DBing is about attitude and action. How you think and how you act. You might notice I did not say how you "feel" b/c in the beginning, you must learn not to allow your feelings to dictate to you how you will respond to anything she says or does......that is the hard part. Aslo, that old saying "fake it until you make it" comes into play a lot of the time. It is not that DBing is about becoming a fake, but it is more about "what we think---we will become". The Bible says that "as a man thinks, so he is". Plus, what you do is important b/c you set a new pattern of behavior. So in the beginning of all this, you may feel that you are faking it until you make it. That is okay. I will tell you this, since you are a Christian, even the Bible teaches us that we are to obey the Lord and it doesn't say anything about whether we "feel" like doing it or not....we just do it...that is what is important. When you practice DBing principles every day, then it will become "you" and you won't think about how you "feel" regarding the techniques. Another great thing about DBing is that it does not go against what the Word of God teaches! I like that.

I can understand how your oldest child probably feels. It is important that you shower them with your affection and your attention b/c they are probably afraid that they will end up a satistic amoung the kids of divorced parents. If she (D) asks questions like she did before (which you handled well) try to be as honest as you can without revealing too much information that put her mom in a bad light......for the time being. I would not mention the OM to her. B/c if your W finds out that you have said anything to her children to paint her as the "bad guy" in the stitch......you will not draw her back to you. Besides, even after you get back together, you don't one of the kids to say, "Daddy said such and such about you", and then all h*ll breaks loose again. Most of the time, you just have to tell the kids what you told your D.....basically that the you and W are having prblems that M couples have sometimes and it is not about the kids b/c both of you love them above anything else. They need that assurance. I don't think I would sit them down to have a "talk" to them, just yet, about the stitch. Wait until later and see how things are going.

I am so glad that you have become as involved in the Church as you are and meeting good people and making new friends. They will be good for you, and the Bible study will be good for you. I promise that you are going down the right path to get the support you need. It won't be found in the bar scenes for sure.



That is the statement that almost every single newcomer makes about his/her spouse. Yes, it will be the hardest thing about DBing! Yes, she has been a part of your life longer than most people (compared to your age) that come here. However, if you keep your eye on the final goal (which is to have her healed from the EA and the entire family back together and the the M healed) then you will be able to do it. There is nothing that you and the Lord cannot handle. That is the advantage that a Christian has. The Bible says, "Greater is He (God) that is in you than he (Satan) that is of the world". So, you have all the power available to you that anyone could have. When you get really discouraged--remember that the Believer is promised that "You can do all things through Christ which strengthens you". I won't lie and tell you that it is going to be easy. It will be hard and you will feel like you are on a rollercoaster ride....if you climb on board with "her" instead of with God b/c she is going to experience that rollercoaster, but you don't have to.....if you stay focused. Still, it won't be easy. Right now, your most important goal needs to be to stay focused on the things you know are good and positive in your life and don't get obsessed about your W or you will go crazy! Your number one goal (after God, of course) is to concentrate on pulling back from your time and attention on the R and you wife. I think, according to all the testimonies here on the board, that I can promise you that it will get easier to pull back in a very short time. Recognizing when you are weak is a growing experience. You know not to do that again. For an example telling her that you want to go back home. Okay, you have told her you think the S is a mistake and you want to go back home but she said "no". Therefore, don't bring the subject up again. In time, the subject will be discussed, but not for quite a while. There are lots to do before she will be ready for that discussion. Think of it as a growing experience, b/c I think you will grow as a person, husband, and certainly a Christian during this journey.

If she and the OM should break the EA off b/c OM does something she doesn't like or he hurts her feelings in some way.....she may want to go running back into your warm arms, but you do not want to be a "rebound" from her EA. You want her to go to you b/c she is attracted to you and wants "you" above anyone else on earth. That is another reason that you will play kind of "hard to get" b/c humans want what they can't have.....right? She thinks she can have you whenever she may want you. She may even begin to "tempt" you sexually after she sees you are unavailable and that you do not appear to be as interested in her like you use to be. Women often do that just to see if they can still have that affect on the man. So, be prepared for that little trick down the road after she sees that you are no longer "available" to her. You will discover that when you become unavailable to her every whim, it gets her attention......and how! It takes her focus off the OM and onto you. It begins to upset her, and even shock her that you don't jump when she says frog. That is when she will pull out her little bag of tricks.

Well, I must stop and get ready for work. If I get a chance during lunchtime or whenever, I will try to continue. We have lots to talk about.....or at least I do....LOL.

Contiue doing good!

Sandi

I don't think I could ever tell kids about the A. They are already hurting enough by me not being there. I know that I left, but I also know that is what she wanted since she asked me to leave a couple of weeks ago. I will not bring that subject or any subject regarding OM or M with her unless it is in MC. We have a session scheduled next week, during this dark period, do we need to continue the counseling? Also, this is our first session (with this counselor). My minister set us up with this lady as she is Christian based in her beliefs and is pro-marriage and making things work if all possible. He says that I have to tell the C about the EA. I think it is W who should do this. I don't think C can help us unless she knows everything. W will tell her that she got emotionally connected with someone, but it was just a close friendship that went a little too far. It was more than that and I think the C should know, but how do I handle this?

Question: I just received both books in the mail. Which one should I read first, DR or DB?

Also, haven't called or tm W since I got the kids to sleep last night. She tm me a couple of hours ago asking how I am and I haven't answered. Should I send back a nice reply and ask how she is or just leave it be?

update:

I did text W back with a short I am good, how is your day going? She then called me immediately but I didn't answer. She called back about an hour later and I didn't answer again. I did finally call her back and we talked for a few minutes. Asked her how day went and she said she met with IC today and also met with doctor that prescribed anti-depressants to her. She said that he said she is doing alot better than the last time she went in to get the meds. Also he talked to her about her weight. She has always been physically fit and normal wt is 115-118. Since this EA started and guilt from it, she has lost weight. This whole time she blamed me to her family that our M was the cause, but now we all know its the EA and guilt. She is down to 104 but is starting to eat again more regularly.

I ended the conversation before she did and just said bye.

This is so very hard. I am very lonely! I can't wait until tomorrow when I can drive to Dallas and see my sis. This will be a very good thing for me.

Still need to know which book to start with? DR or DB?