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Thanks Saffie and PM for poiting out that I shouldn't be ashamed to express my opinions on here no matter how counter-productive I feel they may be to my sitch. I guess we all learn with every passing day.

The problem wasn't so much that my W told me she wasn't ready to go out and then went out behind my back PM. It's more that I feel she's moved on just that little bit more and unfortunately further away from me. That's what concerned me. I know that there's very little I can do about that now though. She's not even really going out behind my back either. She's left me so doesn't need to report her every movement to me any more. I know I've done the same in the last few weeks. The only difference is that I know that I don't want to be with anyone other than her right now. With her, I'm always going to wonder.

I know it's still early days in my sitch but I don't really feel like I'm making any progress with my W at all. I know that I'm doing ok in myself and I'm going to keep working on that aspect. The thing which worries me though is that MWD tells us to stop doing anything that isn't working. It really seems to me that my W is becoming more distant every day. I have so little contact with her that it's impossible for me to tell though with any conviction. Is it too early for me to say it isn't working? I don't want to keep going on as I am if I could be hindering my chances of getting her back in the future. I'm no longer getting any feedback from her parents so I have no idea what's going on. It's frustrating to say the least.

Also, rightly or wrongly, I've taken off my wedding ring. I thought that it was a symbol for her to see that she could have me back whenever she wanted which I didn't want her to think. She's not been wearing hers since a couple of days after she walked out. I do want to get to a point where I feel as though I'm making progress enough to put it back on but that seems like a distant hope at the moment. I know it sounds as though I'm changing my mind daily on how I think this is all going to turn out but that's just the way my mind seems to be working these days. I'm going away this weekend so it should give me the chance to clear my head a bit. A bit of retail therapy never hurt anyone!!

Hi, Kev, thanks for clearing that up. I guess I was projecting. Yes, I agree that she is moving further away from you. You have at least two choices here, I think:

1) You can talk with a DB coach, as I said before they are very specific and very good with helping you set concrete goals and concrete suggestions to achieve those goals. Their advice is invaluable and definitely worth the money.

2) You can give her space to let her decide what she wants to do. Sometimes loving someone means to truly let them go and not control them to do what you would like them to do. I am learning this lesson and finding it very difficult.

If I were you, I would call a DB Coach now, before there is a third party involved. I want to spare you the pain that I am experiencing. My M is still worth it but the pain is almost unbearable. It really tests your resolve to the M as well. But that's just my opinion. You need to do what you feel is right for you.

I have taken off my ring as well. Like I said before, it can be taken off, it can be put back on. It's the commitment which matters most to us. Symbols are just that. They are NOT the real thing.

But it seems like you still have your eye on the goal which is fantastic, Kev.

Hi CIW, the only thing I want to say about what you said about your wife going out to the nightclub is that sometimes couples fall into a "game" (if you will) of trying to outdo one another. Set your standards of what you will or will not do as far as you going out and GAL. Just b/c she did this, don't try to "out do her" by doing something bigger or worse. You know what I mean? Couples get into this thing of trying to make each other jealous and it creates a much, much bigger problem. I believe you are mature enough to know that, but your wife is very young and you may have to see or hear of her doing things that will upset you. However, just continue your standards of what getting a life may be and don't try to see if you can beat her at her game b/c that will not get the two of you together. I know I sound "preachy" but I think the nightclub scenes are nothing but trouble spots for married people. Ask yourself "why" does anyone go there? To party? What exactly does that mean? To drink, to look around at the opposite sex, to be seen by the opposite sex, to flirt, to dance.......in other words, it is temptation and trouble waiting to happen. I hope you will be careful about going to these types of places. I'm not trying to tell you how to live, but want to warn you of getting into a bigger mess.

Take care,
Sandi

Sandi,

I could be wrong but I don't get the feeling CIW is trying to out do his W with the night club scene.....I think he was just trying to GAL with his mates and from what he said I don't think this weekends trip away is that sort of GAL activity.

CIW - I hear what you are saying about your W moving further away and you not being able to see what works and what doesn't. Have you thought about going absolutely dark apart from contact and conversation about your son. No conversations about what you are doing and no making enquiries as to what your W is doing. If she tries to tell you be polite but just try and change the subject. Don't let friends get involved and tell you what each other are doing as that hurts and can send out mixed messages - if friends try to tell you what W is up to make it clear, in a nice way, you don't want to know. I am sure that will get back to her and make her curious. Let's face it, you will never lose contact completely because of the wee man - so you will always be able to step up chit chat and conversation if you want to. Go mysterious. Accept that she is going to live a bit. She is YOUNG.When you are young and want something you push and push until you get it.....and then, when you get it, often you see that it is not as good as you thought it would be. I am sure her parents and the responsibility of the wee man in a house by herself, will bring her back to reality gradually. Everything is a novelty at the moment. This all needs time to play out and stabalise. Ever since you have been on these boards the ground has been shifting quite quickly...........let things settle for a bit and then review it.

Hey there folks. So much to reply to but I'll do my best to answer you all. Firstly PM, I agee with your two choices although I'm not sure at the moment which one to opt for. I really must call a DB coach anyway but things are so much up in the air now that I seem to be struggling to get round to it. I guess it's still the procrastinator in me shining through. I am tempted to just let her live her life for a while though and wait it out a bit. I think it's always going to be something she needs to get out of her system no matter how things turn out between us. If she doesn't do it now and comes back home, I can see this same thing happening again in a few years time. She has to learn that the grass isn't always greener. Obviously, this is a gamble for me because it may just turn out that the grass is greener. There wouldn't be a lot I could do about it then. At that point I guess I'd just have to accept the fact it was over and move on. I agree with what you say about your ring too PM. It's only a thing whereas the feelings I have for my W are still very much real. I like the idea of the symbolic gesture of putting the ring back on when things work out.

Sandi, thank you for your concern. I'm at a place right now where I can definitely see how my GALing may be seen as a competition for my W to better me. The problem where we live is that both our individual groups of friends like to go out to these places. To socialise and GAL, we end up tagging along. I know my boundaries where going out is concerned. I don't drink too much any more at all when I'm out. Not because I'm afraid I'll do something I regret but because I know I'll just end up spilling my heart about how miserable I am to whoever will listen!! Not an attractive thing for anyone to hear. Because we live in such a small community, there's every chance that the person I spill my heart to is very likely to be a friend of my W's. Again, not a good thing to do when I know it will get reported back. There's no point in acting 'as if' with my W and then have her find out that it is just an act when she talks to her friends. To that end, I do set myself these boundaries about how much I drink and how sensible I am. On the other hand, I have no idea if my W is likely to set herself any boundaries at all. She was a terrible flirt when we were still together so I just don't see how us being separated is going to help with that at all. It may reduce her boundaries if anything. Now, I know that I'm going to have to deal with that at some point in all likelihood but I also know it's going to be one of the hardest things I've ever had to deal with. As a very wise woman once told me though, "What doesn't kill us will only make us stronger." A sentiment that I'll probably have to put to the test before too long if my W has decided to get back in to her social life at the deep end.

And Saffie, thank you for sticking up for me although I could completely understand what Sandi was talking about too. It amazes me sometimes that nobody on these boards is a professional counsellor. The advice always seems so good and I thank my lucky stars every day that I found it when I did. If I didn't I'm certain that I'd be in a much darker place than I am now. As for going dark with my W Saffie, I think I already am doing what you've suggested to a certain extent. The communication about anything other than Wee Man is pretty much non-existant. The only problem I have with it is that it seems to me that I'm finding it a lot harder than my W right now. That could just be because she still has constant company while living with parents but I'm on my own. She moves in to her own house next weekend so that may change. She still has loads of very close friends though so I don't imagine they'll be too far away any time she's feeling a bit lonely. Unfortunately for me, my old job had me travelling the world for 12 years after I left school and I lost ontact with so many of my friends. I have been trying to rectify that recently in the pursuit of GAL but it's a slow process.

I do completely understand and agree, as I said to PM, that I think I need to let my W go and live for a bit. Best case scenario, it's exactly what she needs to get out of her system to learn to appreciate our M. Worst case scenario, she finds someone else she feels more comfortable with than me. I've discovered as I'm sure many people on here have that it's much harder to get someone to fall back in love with you than it is to make them love you in the first place. There's a lot of bad blood to overcome. So, I'm probably going to accept your advice Saffie and let things settle for a bit and review it after some time. You're not kidding when you say things have been moving quickly since I started visiting this site. It's hard to believe that I only found this site in October last year when my W and I had just had a bit of a falling out! It's been a whirlwind of emotion since then.

I'll just give a quick update now of how things are going. I'm lying in bed typing this right now and will need to get off to sleep soon. My wee angel is in his nursery next door to me and it feels so good as always to have him here with me. When I picked him up my W seemed more cheery than usual but I'm not even going to bother wasting the energy on trying to analyse why that may be. I've has a tough couple of days emotionally although I don't know why. I know we all have our ups and downs but these last two days have been awful. I've just been feeling so much more lonely than usual and really quite down. I'm hoping this weekend with my sister and my niece will be exactly what I need to charge my batteries though. I'm going away on Friday but I've also taken Thursday off work so I can spend the whole day with Wee Man before I go away. I'm really looking forward to that too.

Anyhoo, I'll go now and get some sleep. No doubt I'll be up in the middle of the night to give Wee Man a bottle. I'm hoping my mood is more positive tomorrow. I hate feeling this way when I know I've been making good progress. It just seems to set everything back to a point where I don't want to be. Good night though everyone. I'll report in again tomorrow to let you know how I'm doing.

No, no, I was not saying that you WERE in competition with her about the nightclub life, I was only warning you how some couple fall into a trap of doing that. They are really trying to spite each other and it looks as though they are competing. But, no, I did not mean to imply that you were doing that. I think you have more maturity, but your wife is very young, so expect anything from her as far as GAL.


Take care,
Sandi

Hey Kev,
How are you? How was last night with the Weeman, did he wake you up?

If you feel you need to let her go now, then that's great. BTW, you imagine that you are doing worse than her. Don't be fooled. She is not having as much fun as you think she is. Believe me. She is having a lot of emotions that you are having as well as having the huge burden of guilt. Don't know if you are like me but I tend to avoid guilt like the plague so I try to not do anything that might trigger that. Well, she is having to listen to her inner voice and it's not good. I think that's why she is going out, surrounding herself with people and family. Because when she is alone, she has to face her true self and her choices. I am totally projecting here so forgive me if I am wrong but honestly I see my H and he is NOT having fun now despite the fact that he was GIDDY when he first left. My MIL can verify this.

So take your eyes off her for awhile. Give yourself a break from all of this drama. Enjoy your lovely family this weekend and have a little fun. You earned a break!

I think I understood what you were getting at Sandi. I agree that it's my W who very well may be trying to compete with me. I've been seen out with other women socially since we separated although my W knows that we've only ever been friends. I am worried that she might be of the mentality that since I'm doing it, it's ok for her to do it. I know she's probably going to end up seeing other guys eventually but I don't want to be the one to push her in to it by my actions. I am going to be very careful from now on about how I go about GAL.

I'm in a better mood today. Must be because it's my last day of work until I take a few days off to travel to spend time with my family and get myself a new car. Or it could just be because I have Wee Man staying with me at the moment. Whatever the reason, it's good not to feel in such a slump as I have done this last few days. Hopefully it will last. I have to see my W over the next couple of days because of Wee Man and I'm hoping it won't affect me adversely. I'll be trying to follow my own advice I keep giving PM and 'Keep Smiling'

Kev

I hope when you come back home, it will be with the determination to not keep your focus on your W, but to focus on you, wee man, and your life.

Have fun with your family and getting that car!

Sandi

Sandi, I also hope that I can take my focus away from what's going on with my W when I come back home. I know it's something I need to do to be more comfortable in my sitch. Thanks for your support.

Kev