Quote: She hasn't seen a doctor regarding her loss of libido because it is not a problem for her, she doesn't see any reason to fix something that doesn't need fixing. She doesn't want to enjoy sex again. In fact, she doesn't want to take any medication, even if it means a better life for both of us.
How can such a well educated intelligent woman be so ignorant and blind?
Baffling.
Baffling isn't the word *I'd* use. I can't understand how a spouse who claims to love their H or W would *not* at least attempt to understand the issue or see the issue from the other's point of view.
What I’ve discovered appears to be some of the reasons for her loss of libido:
-differences in core values and beliefs at this point are apparently strong enough to be a turn off (this seems to be the biggest problem)
-kindness, generosity, helpfulness, supportiveness are not enough to overcome these differences. She says she respects and cares for me deeply but doesn’t love me in a romantic way.
-I don’t see life the way she does. What we each expect from it has evolved in different directions (according to her, doesn’t seem that different to me)
-my attitude about sex is offensive (I like it, want it a lot, think it should be fun and often)
-I find humor in sexual jokes/innuendo (immature?)
-my high sex drive is a major turn off
-my “scent” isn’t an attractant to her. I DO take showers, y’all know, and use cologne. Just seems like my chemistry isn’t right for her. Other women have told me the opposite so I figure it’s kinda like fitting puzzle pieces together: some work, others have to be trimmed or matched with a different piece.
These are things that came out yesterday in a discussion. She says she can feel my anguish (I’m not sure how, I thought I was keeping it to myself pretty well) every time she is around me and it is often too much for her to stand.
She has no idea if or when she will regain her interest in me and says that even if I changed my behaviors it wouldn’t be enough because it would be forced, not how I am naturally; she realizes that to change one’s core values may be impossible. She said she knows it is asking too much to ask me to change my personality but can’t help being turned off by those differences.
Well, folks, here I am standing in the eye of the storm, actually calm, but afraid to jump into the whirlwind around me. Not sure what to do about all this but I think I have to be really careful who I am around her. Somehow this doesn’t seem right that have to be on guard with everything I say and do but I want things to work between us. If I can I will change myself to be with her.
I gotta say you have a special place with me, but man, I'm not so sure you aren't in some form a masochist. How many times are you going to willingly allow that woman to stab you in the heart all in the name of love?
What I am NOT seeing with you is any kind of self-love or self-respect. You continually put her opinions, her desires, etc., above your own, and what's more, you go back to make sure you got it all right, heard her correctly... and then she delivers more ego busting blows, just like you asked her to do, over and over and over again.
Guy, you aren't even a doormat... you're the rug pad under the doormat, you know? STOP IT!!! I hate seeing you do this to yourself 'all in the name of love.' This isn't LOVE, brother, this is altogether something else I'm not even sure I have a name for...
Is your self-love so non-existant that you will allow others to continually treat you in an abusive manner? What are you teaching your son?
I am completely perplexed as hell. Stand up for yourself!! Thank her for her opinions, and tell her enough is enough. She can either work with you on solving this issue, which includes going to marriage counseling with you, or she needs to decide how she is going to get out of the marriage. But either way, she's got three months to decide. The clock is ticking.
Move out of the bedroom to another part of the house. Co-exist with her until she makes her decision. Draw a damn line in the sand... at least that way, you both know what the boundary is and can make decisions based upon it. This thing, this dance the two of you are doing together, will leave you in a continuous state of limbo that will trap the two of you in a morass of non-being for as long as you allow it.
C'mon, guy.... I don't want to hear how great things are, except for your sex life, anymore. I don't believe it. I don't think you should either.
That's probably as hardlined as I get, and I apologize for the harshness. I am rooting for you, I just don't know what else to tell you.
First I want to say that I have read Corri's response and agree with all she has to say. Now I want to address some of the things you said in your last post....
Quote: -differences in core values and beliefs at this point are apparently strong enough to be a turn off (this seems to be the biggest problem)
What differences? Did she say to you that her core values and beliefs were so different than your that she could not see engaging in a sexual relationship with you? Someone is copping out here and they are doing it at the expense of the other person. She is coming up with every excuse in the book to keep from working on an issue that is causing her husband extreme pain. I have to tell you, my core values and beliefs are the very opposite of your wife's. No one has the right to abuse their spouse the way you are being abused.
Quote: -kindness, generosity, helpfulness, supportiveness are not enough to overcome these differences. She says she respects and cares for me deeply but doesn’t love me in a romantic way.
AchingMan, I have tried to see it from her perspective, have put thought into what I think might be rational reasons for her rejection of you. None of what she says makes any sense to me. She has no respect for you and very little concern. She may act in ways that will lead you to believe she does but she doesn't. I wouldn't hurt my neighbor the way you are hurting. Your wife is completely dismissive of your pain and that shows a complete lack of respect for you as a human being let alone her husband. I've been there. I have experienced this kind of treatment. My ex husband had me believing he was a good husband, a fine man and truly cared about me. He could have cared less about me or anything I was feeling. He was along for the ride and if I had kept quiet and suffered in silence he would still be here. You seem to have so much love and affection to offer and you have found yourself attached to and loving someone who feels so little for you that she is willing for you to suffer. I think she is a cruel person who, for some reason has learned that it is OK to verbally wound the person she is married to. Part of me wonders if her cruelty to you is an attempt to push you out of the marriage or if it is arrogance on her part and a belief that she is allowed to abuse others. I'm sorry but her thinking and reasoning do not jive with what I have learned about common human decency.
Quote: -I don’t see life the way she does. What we each expect from it has evolved in different directions (according to her, doesn’t seem that different to me)
I agree with her on this one, I think you two see life very differently. I can't imagine you ever saying the things she says even if you were in her shoes. I think you expect kindness, affection and love from the person you married. I think she expects you to skate along and do without what you need just because she has decided she doesn't like it. Oh, yes, I see the glaring differences in the two of you as individuals. It's just to bad she lacks the humanity that you have so much of.
Quote: -my attitude about sex is offensive (I like it, want it a lot, think it should be fun and often)
It is offensive for a man to want to share intimacy with his wife? She tries to put you on the defensive for having normal needs and loving her. This is one gracious woman you are dealing with here. I was wrong, the one who wanted too much, needed too much, expected too much. I was the one always apologizing, feeling guilty and trying to fix the problem. People like my ex and your wife go through life dumping on people. Your wife has an extreme problem, she is unfit to play the role of wife to you or anyone else and you are carrying the burden of it. You, not her, you are the one on anti-depressants and posting to a forum trying to make things better. She is off the hook for any of it because you are so willing to carry her load. Honey, she has no reason to change cause you are going to hang in there no matter what she does or says.....or so she thinks.
Quote: -I find humor in sexual jokes/innuendo (immature?)
-my high sex drive is a major turn off
Have you ever considered telling her to grow up? It turns her off that you have a high sex drive? If you served her your b$lls on a silver platter would she feel more affection for you? This woman has attacked everything about you that makes you a man. Why does she feel safe in doing this?
Quote: -my “scent” isn’t an attractant to her. I DO take showers, y’all know, and use cologne. Just seems like my chemistry isn’t right for her. Other women have told me the opposite so I figure it’s kinda like fitting puzzle pieces together: some work, others have to be trimmed or matched with a different piece.
It doesn't have anything to do with fitting puzzle pieces together. It has to do with common human decency and caring enough about the person you are married to that you would never do such harm to their emotional health. She has devastated you emotionally and you love her so much that you are willing for her to do it. Why?
Quote: She says she can feel my anguish (I’m not sure how, I thought I was keeping it to myself pretty well) every time she is around me and it is often too much for her to stand.
Are we supposed to feel bad for her because she feels anguish? Are her feelings really feelings of concern for you or for herself and the fact that she has to be bothered by it. Nearly 20 years ago when I became pregnant with my first child my ex left me. He was gone through the entire pregnancy and up to the time the child was 7 months old. He was "anguish" and confused. I dealt with the mess he left behind and was a good little martyr. I had no choice because he was "confused." When my child was 7 months old her wrote me an email and told me he would "never be able to forgive himself for the things he had done." I thought, awweee, how wonderful he really does care about me. It took me nearly 17 years and a lot of pain to realize that it was himself he was worried about forgiving. He never once said I'm sorry for what I did to you. It was about finding a way to feel better about himself. AM, your wife is focused on the same thing. Making life easier for her to deal with and her anguish over your pain has to do with the way it makes her feel, not your feelings. You are so much like me...so forgiving, so willing to find an excuse, to look for answers and to lay yourself wide open for someone who will not do something as simple as make a trip to a therapist. Can you see the imbalance in all that and the tole it is taking on you as a person? I know you love this person but I also believe that you are wasting a precious comodity on someone undeserving.
Quote: Well, folks, here I am standing in the eye of the storm, actually calm, but afraid to jump into the whirlwind around me. Not sure what to do about all this but I think I have to be really careful who I am around her. Somehow this doesn’t seem right that have to be on guard with everything I say and do but I want things to work between us. If I can I will change myself to be with her.
Why would you give away yourself for someone who has sent you a very loud message that she feels you are not worth her effort? I will be the first to tell people to try and see the situation from their spouses perspective. I believe in listening and taking into account the feelings of the other person. I also believe that there must come a time when we have to stop and ask ourselves why we are continuing to take someone's abuse.
I think there are major problems in your marriage. I think the worst is the fact that you keep extending yourself to someone who can be so abusive. Not only does Corri not see any self-love or self-respect but neither does your wife. Your wife has no reason to change the way she feels. She has put you in your place and you have nicely stood in the corner doing exactly as she says. You have allowed your fear of losing your marriage to cause you to become her whipping boy, someone she can flog on a regular basis.
Corri is right about your son. You don't have to be concerned about him growing up to think you are a pervert. What you need to be concerned about is him growing up to think it is OK to give himself away to someone who will abuse him. He is not learning from his mother that a woman has affection and desire for her husband. From her he is learning to accept coldness from the female gender. You are teaching him to accept and one day live with the same kind of pain you are. That should make you stop and think. It should motivate you to stand up for yourself so that you can teach him to never settle for less than he is worth. He will learn to respect himself by watching you and how you deal with those who disrespect you.
Please listen to what Corri says. You have got to put this woman on notice and you have got to be willing to lose everything to hold onto your own self-respect. Answer this....why is her disregard for you and your needs more important than being loved and respected by her? What about you is able to tell yourself that this is normal and this is what you have to live with? Like Corri, I'm sorry. My intent is not to hurt your feelings. If I had not lived with this kind of abuse I probably would not care so much. I have no idea how old you are but I'm 51. I'm 51 and raising two children on my own because I invested years of myself trying to make it work with someone who had no romantic feelings or desire to make it work. It took me a long time to heal from the pain my divorce caused. I'm on the other side now and can clearly see that I handed him my life and who I was and stood there and allowed him to abuse me. I gave up precious years to someone who could have cared less. I worshiped my husband, adored every aspect of him and thought life would be like death without him. I probably would have never left because I didn't have the strength to find myself. He left me though and now, after 4 years I can honestly say that the pain I suffered was well worth it. I can look back now and I feel shame over who I allowed myself to become. You are a person who deserves so much more than you are getting. Please try and find the strength needed to heal yourself and, if need be move on. Cathy~
I’m a bit shell shocked from your blisteringly direct posts but really appreciate the care and thoughtfulness that went into your comments. I am truly touched that you think so highly of me even without really knowing me. I don’t feel ready to respond to such drastic advice but I wanted to at least acknowledge your posts. I need time to consider what you’ve said.
AchingMan, I'm sorry if what I wrote was offensive. I know you love your wife and it can't be easy to hear others say negative things. I think I reacted emotionally to your post because from your description she comes across as being cold and unfeeling. I know that hearing an objective opinion can hurt at times but I think it's healthy to get the opinions of those on the outside looking in. At times we need someone to give drastic opinions. I don't want to cause you more stress or pain, just want to try and help. I hope you are doing well and please keep in mind that it's only an opinion. Ultimately you have to do what is right for you no matter what others might think. Cathy~
I like you just about as much as anyone can like someone without having actually met; I hope you know that. I know my post probably really sunk deep, and like Cathy, I am so sorry if I have increased your pain and sorrow.
My post, like Cathy's, was an emotional reaction to what you had written, and I hate to see anyone in as much pain as you obviously are. I'm sure your wife is a really nice person on certain levels... my post was not to shoot her down or make you feel defensive on her behalf. I just want to see your pain end, and sometimes, we have to stand up for ourselves in order for that to happen.
Again, my apologies, and I ditto everything Cathy said.
Don't worry. I wasn't offended and certainly didn't feel like it was an attack against me. While I am inclined, by nature and philosophy of marriage, to defend my wife from all attacks (except my own, of course!) I realize there is some validity to some of the points that you and Corri brought up. We must remember it is difficult to see the whole picture from posts on this forum. Even if you knew us both personally it is impossible to truly see what happens in someone else's relationship.
No doubt there are many factors in this situation that have distorted the romance into a chore.
I plan to move forward as I have begun, taking it one step at a time, for my own sanity. I could not handle the upheaval of what you and Corri are suggesting, at least not right now.
Maybe you'll think I'm foolish for not bailing out right now but there is no way I would risk not seeing my son everyday through his teens. If things have not improved by the time he goes to college (still a handful of years to go) I will move on alone.
Please don't think that I don't want your advice straight as you see it. Your experience is invaluable. I realize that I am likely blinded by love (or blindsided) and my perspective may be way off. It is possible that in 15 yrs I'll be giving the same advice that you are.
I can not take such drastic measures until I am fully prepared to give up and throw the marriage away. I keep holding on to the idea that there is some key element that I am not seeing yet, some discovery to be made that will reveal a way to revive her passion.
I think that she thinks about this quite often but is simply clueless about where the passion has gone and is too stressed with job stuff to consider it a priority. I don't think I can scare her into recognizing the importance of sex and romance in a marriage. She has to be gently brought around, I sort of need to get her to think that she has figured it out on her own, playing to her intellectual side (she's much brainier than I am).
I'm hoping 6 months of therapy by myself will give me some ideas and help clarify what's going on. Gotta get that therapy going soon (switching health insurance, so I've got to wait until that's settled).
Thank you both again for your thoughts, they have not fallen on deaf ears (or blind eyes, I should say)
Well, we had a serious talk today. It almost snapped my wife in two, she is on the verge of splitting and is freaking out. The pressure for her is much more overwhelming most of the time than it is for me most of the time. She keeps asking why I am staying with her, why do I love her?
I have been rather demanding, selfish and blind, looking for reasons why our sex life sucks, when I should have been looking deeper.
It just clicked: instead of trying to fix her low libido I should have realized my wife has been hiding a severe depression that has blanketed many years for her, with ups and downs. I couldn't understand because when I'm down I need affection and sex gives me a big lift. It's not that way for her at all, in fact, quite the opposite.
Who knows how many things are contributing to the cause list of this dark hole that she lives in, but I suspect there are many things, some very deeply ingrained.
She hates life, the only thing keeping her going is our son, the only thing that really matters to her. While it makes me sad to know that I'm not that important for her, what is really tearing me up is to know she is suffering to this degree. As something of an "enlightened" naturalist, she refuses to consider medication to feel better but is considering talking with a therapist. The key is that if she doesn't feel an understanding with that person she will reject everything they say.
I realize now that she is simply very very sick and all I can do is back off until she is ready, be supportive and patient. Very bleak outlook for getting any of my needs met. She told me to give her time but of course couldn't tell me how long to wait in silence.
I'm glad to finally know but deeply saddened by the reason. How can you reason with someone that is in such a state that their thinking is totally warped and clouded by negative emotions?
This may seem to be a very sad moment for you, but I think you have hit critical mass my friend!!!!! Whew, whew!!
It ISN'T YOU!!! Yeah, yippee, happy dance, happy dance, happy dance (man, thanks MPT, for the happy dance, that is so cool).
Now don't get me wrong. I'm really, really sorry that your wife is suffering so deeply, and I would not wish that pain on anyone.
But this is big, because the two of you have been able to identify the ENEMY. SHE is depressed, and all along you thought it was YOU! Man, admitting that there is even a problem to begin with is HUGE. At least now, you are no longer walking around in the dark, wondering what the hell happened to all the lights...
Take a day and revel in this one, my friend. You have found the problem!!! Now you at least have a chance to meet it head on a deal with it......
I'm sorry, I know my happiness may seem a bit 'wrong' for the occassion, but I gotta tell you, this message has made me about the happiest damn woman on the planet....
AM, at your very darkest hour, you have found your HOPE. Lift your face to the sky and thank the good Lord above... He came through for you in the 9th!!!! Now we've got something you can work with.... yessirreee....
Sh!t, I'm so happy for you I'm going to go have myself a beer in your honor... hot damn!
I can't understand how a spouse who claims to love their H or W would *not* at least attempt to understand the issue or see the issue from the other's point of view. 
