Don't know if it's encouraging or not, but beneath the bluster and selfishness, your W does seem to want to find a way to connect.
Aud, I think you're right. I think she wants to connect, too.
I've been reading DB for the second or third time. I'm realizing that in Piecing mode, I'm going to need to incorporate more of a DB mindset. I've been utilizing GAL for social connection and Do Something Different to integrate positives into the R , and my religious self-help books to keep me from developing ill will, but I can see that I'm going to need to be more skilled at DB, if I'm going to navigate Piecing.
DB tallks about the Solution Becoming the Problem. In my R, my W attempts to get me to be more intimate with her by venting her frustration indirectly. She also attempts to get me to be more intimate by diagnosing me with an intimacy problem, that needs to be addressed in IC. She hasn't figured-out that she needs to act in ways that would make me want to be closer to her.
I want to live with a W who is respectful in her communication, and is mostly pleasant to be around. In order to obtain that, I'm going to have to be more connected in a physical manner with her.
I've tried hiring a housecleaner as a dirty house is stressful for her. I've signed us up for a world travel group, as she wants to travel on a regular basis. I've put the sheep puppy dog in daycare, as she cannot tolerate being with him all day. I cook a meal for her weekly. I've become a skilled dancer, so that we can share a hobby together. All of these efforts have not prevented her from relapsing into sleeping elsewhere behaviors.
I have to figure-out another approach. IC may be helpful. I was validated in an email today, because I admitted that I need to work on relational skills. As long as she gets the impression that I am working on my relational skills to improve intimacy, she is content. She likes it when I admit that I have issues.
When I'm done with DB, I probably should start on Mars & Venus, to get some ideas on how to communicate with women.
I think my W is correct about my defensvieness and reactivity around her. I need to become more aware of those patterns. I have a book on order that addresses those issues. As you've stated, I've had my guard up for a long time in this R.
I'll keep thinking. This is a back to the drawing board phase.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
All of these efforts have not prevented her from relapsing into sleeping elsewhere behaviors.
I think all your efforts are worthy ones CL. And the truth is, nothing you can do will prevent her from the behavior. But hopefully, if you can find the way to connect with her, she will choose to do some changing as well. Whether the behavior changes or not, you know that you have learned and evolved. That's quite an accomplishment in itself.
Quote:
I think my W is correct about my defensvieness and reactivity around her. I need to become more aware of those patterns.
She could very well be right. Who wouldn't be defensive in your sitch?! (This is coming from a mommy who was very defensive and reactive to three rambunctious kiddos this evening...it's natural...and I need to work on it too.)
I remember when I first found the boards, in my reading, there was a post by a veteran who talked about 'getting it', detaching, doing things out of one's own will rather than in response to the actions of others, in essence, willfully choosing to act rather than react. It took a while for it to make sense, because I was still in raw-anguished-controlling mode. But it does make sense now. Funny thing is, it's something that has to be continually practiced, but it's like anything else, the more you do it, the better you become at it.
And the better you become, the more confidence, strength, mystery, and attractiveness you radiate. I agree with Lanzo...your W needs a firm hand in ways, and you are ideally equipped to provide that with gentleness and compassion. Don't be afraid to find it.
I remember when I first found the boards, in my reading, there was a post by a veteran who talked about 'getting it', detaching, doing things out of one's own will rather than in response to the actions of others, in essence, willfully choosing to act rather than react.
Your quote is in line with the themes of my Tara Brach sudio podcasts I've been listening to. The themes I've been listening to are fear, courage, being present, staying with, defensiveness, reactivity, commitment to presence, letting everything happen, and efforts to control.
I'm sure it's not an accident that I'm drawn to these themes. The patterns of reactivity and defensiveness are normal in that everyone has to learn to break them. It's part of being human.
I think it's more difficult to be couragous in a M, because there is more at stake--loss of an entire lifestyle. I can see how fear generates that type of anticipation and drama in ones' mind.
I have a feeling that my DB strategies are going to involve staying with and moving thru fear. I'm the one in the R, who is better equipped to do this. I'm going to have to change the relational patterns around connection and intimacy.
I'll stay at the drawing board, and let DB guide me in coming up with specific ideas.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Matilda, and Aud, I'm moving thru the book DB. The main idea from what I've read recently is to articulate what you want specifically for the R. It's probably helpful for me to pause and think about this.
I can see how unless one is clear about what one wants, there is a high probability there will be miscommunication. For example, my W wants more intimacy, and I'm supposed to work on this in IC. I'm going to need to get her to clarify exactly what she means by intimacy. Her concept and mine are definitely different.
At this point I'm aware that she wants me to tell her that she looks nice, that I'm supposed to improve the quality of sex, that I'm supposed to be present at the end of a day, and that I'm supposed to have as much fun dancing with her as I do with other ladies.
It seems like her requests are still too vague. In communication, with her, I will guide her to be more specific about what she wants, so that I know what I need to do to succeed.
The other piece is thinking about what I want. This will be new because the focus has been on making her happy. I do want respectful communication, but maybe that also needs to be more specific. I want to give her the latititude to discuss conflict. I think I can handle her temperament as long as she doesn't put me down personally.
I want to keep and raise my sheep puppy dog. She can only take the puppy in small doses, and wouldn't mind if he weren't around.
I want the freedom to independently pursue my interests of dancing and writing. This means being able to go to lessons or dances on my own, and to take writing classes and workshops, and have quiet time at home to write and read.
She is welcome to participate with the dancing with me, as long as it's constructive. She is inconsistent with her dance partnership with me, so I have to be willing to go to lessons and venues on my own. I realize that when we do go out dancing together, she has expectations on how she is treated, which is fine.
Hopefully, there's a way for us to be able to connect in ways that is mutually satisfying, and also allows for freedom to pursue personal interests.
This past week, we havne't done any joint activity. We are civil to each other. There is daily email communication.
When I was at my dance lesson, Thursday night, she was thoughtful enough to order a carry-out for me.
We still sleep in separate bedrooms.
DB discusses that change is slow and step by step. Patience is important. DB also helps to discipline the mind to stay away from blaming or labeling self or other, because it's emphasis is on changing the patterns of relating. It also trains the mind to look for small successes, and to focus on strengths of the M, and the times when you are getting along, and to learn from and build upon them. This perspective is a nice complement to my other resources that help me stay grounded.
I'll continue to stay at the DB drawing board and craft a strategy.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Matilda, The complementary piece to DB is the mental work of acceptance (peace). I don't like the word detachment as it's connotation implies indifference. I prefer terms such as acceptance, nonreactivity, presence, and opennness.
I listened to an audio podcast this weekend on the topic of Listening to Your Life by Tara Brach. She talked about the practice of unconditional listening.
Unconditional listening means being willing to listen to someone without defense, or reactivity. It involves being open to hearing what they have to say, no matter how unpleasant it is. It's being willing to connect to them, versus protect ourselves.
My self-assessment is that I become defensive around listening to my W when there are difficult topics that involve failings in the M. I think fear takes over, and I become reactive.
She attempted to talk to me about a week ago. I was able to stay with the conversation, but wasn't able to communicate that I was listening. The best I could do was to stay in the room. It was a step forward for me.
I think this is a skill I will need to cultivate and incorporate into DB, if we're going to move forward. We'll see if an opportunity presents itself again.
I don't want to see opportunity for healing pass because I am too afraid to listen to a difficult conversation.
My W went out on Friday night and returned Sunday afternoon. I went dancing Saturday night, met a classmate who I spent the night practicing my waltz with, danced with new ladies, and ladies in my network.
At this point, I plan my social calendar, let my W know my plans, and proceed without her if she doesn't express interest.
I don't tell people I'm M (implies I'm only available to be social as a couple; at this point I'm single within a M), but do acknowledge I'm in a R (if it comes up), so that way ladies know I'm not available for dating. I've decided that people who know of my R with my W, don't need to know the personal details of our R (marital status). I have a feeling people who know us as a couple, can guess that we're having trouble at this time, yet respect my privacy.
I think there should be transparency in anything I do. I don't feel the need to report the details of each social outing, but should be able to tell my W each of my activities when asked (when, what, and where with whom).
CL
Last edited by Concerned_Listener; 02/22/0911:30 PM.
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Good morning, CL. Sounds like you are doing well working on your skills to communicate better.
Originally Posted By: Concerned_Listener
I don't tell people I'm M This surprised me because in earlier threads I thought you were expressing disappointment that your wife didn't want to tell anyone you were married.....even when she wanted to plan a party at your house.
should be able to tell my W each of my activities when asked (when, what, and where with whom). Would she tell you the same if you asked?
I sure need to practice unconditional listening with my D18!
Matilda and Aud, This past week I've been putting effort into seeking out connection in the dancing and writing communities. I ventured out on Tuesday night to a different venue to practice at least once during the week. There were about a dozen people there, and I felt comfortable in the small group.
I went to a poetry reading downtown sponsored by the literary organization I belong to. The poet read poetry that was personal and accessible. I hadn't been to this venue in probably a year, so it felt good to resume my networking in the writing community.
My writing seems to be moving into a different genre. I tried writing short stories two years ago, and was stuck, though learned a lot about the craft of fiction. I tried writing poetry last year, and was stuck, though learned about the elements of a poem and now enjoy reading poetry.
I've started reading creative nonfiction essays---personal and literary journalism. I've decided I'm going to try writing personal essays. This type of writing will fit my natural strengths better, as I'm educated in the social sciences and am used to reading and writing nonfiction and doing library research.
However, there's a side of me yearning to be creative. Creative nonfiction incorporates the research skills of writing nonfiction, with storytelling. This may be an easier way for me to incorporate the fiction techniques of storytelling, which I want to develop. I think I'm on the right track.
My W and I are cordial. Our conversation is pleasant. This is far better than the irritable person I've been living with for the past several months. The problem is now there is distance.There must be a way to have a fulfilling personal life, pursuing your own passions, and be connected in a mutually satisfying way. The R of the past several months and past 15 years had to end.
We communicate daily by email. DB talks about finding a medium where you can communicate constructively.
She did imply that she wanted me to show-up last night at her regular dance venue, and to make sure I ask her to dance, as long as I keep being nice to her. I went to the venue, to create an opportunity for connection, and waited for an hour. She never arrived. Maybe she arrived after I left.
I listen to Tara Brach audio podcasts daily. The themes are consistent with what I'm working on in my life--connection, nonreactivity, acceptance, being nonjudgmental, presence, listening, awareness. It's hard work trying not to be reactive, judgmental, defensive, and self-centered about my situation. I agree with what she says, and think my struggle means that I'm making effort.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
