Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Wife is out and annouced OM to all #2

hey tom, you arent crazy. you are strong and amazing. and a great dad.

oh and buy the way, leftover lobster came from a huge steak, and just the lobster tail was over a pound, add salad and cheesecake lol, and i got lobster twice in a few days silly!

MUAH hugs and prayers

So Tom should change his name to divorcedawesome or divorcedandstrong..hmm..has possibilities..what do you think {{{Tom}}}

Tawnya

Yeah, this is definitely par for the course.

Well...sounds like you are doing the best you can and doing great by the kids. I wouldn't put too much stock in what she says about God...or anything else for that matter. I think she just says whatever comes into her head in any given situation, and it's usually some form of mirroring. So with you, it's God talk. With someone else, it's probably feminist empowerment talk. She doesn't know who she is.

Of course that's all just my 2c. But you can have it for free! lol

Hi MC,

I've been lurking on your posts, waiting for more news I suppose. But rather than waiting any longer, I wanted to tell you what a good dad you are. It's crucial that we women read these stories, and that you know that WE know you are a good guy. I don't know your former story or significantly older posts. But what I've read here is pretty calm and impressive. Your faith is inspiring and your clarity helps me a lot. I have some questions for you.

Given that I only know the recent past, my opinion is of limited use. But it's a little different than what you might think. And it raises a big flag issue for me. The role of the LBSer's residual anger in the failure of M's. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm asking you b/c you're so honest.

From what the texts said, she seemed to be fishing to me. She isn't taking the real risk of going out and saying she wants to reconcile, b/c she's too cowardly and confused ?? OR just wants to know you are "in waiting". I feel strongly that she IS doing that AT LEAST...

So, one has to ask why. She's Not in love with OM. No one "In love" with OP talks about the 5 year plan or the "someday when I'm not screwed up will you love me then?" kind of thing. It's like she wants a 3 year break so she can be single without long term consequences. Except she is feeling those consequences...

As annoying as that is, she also confessed some things that don't make sense as lies. I mean, OM"s Mother telling her she's not being a good mom for giving up custody...OUCH OUCH!!! That would hurt ANY woman. It surely hurt your wife, and of all the things she said that you may doubt, I would not doubt that. Someone said this to her. It's too painful to make up, let alone confess to you, of all people, so painful enough to hear, and then repeat...no, she would not make it up.

If the mother of OM told her that... I can see how that would trigger some self examination. If not that, then what? That R Isn't going so well I guess...

Back to you. I offer the following thoughts, not all consistent. I am struck by the love between and for you both, in the tone and content of what you tell each other.

There is friendship and real concern about the other.
But regardless, If she were fully ready and willing to bravely ask for reconciliation, she'd come out and say, "I want back in. What's it gonna take?" And she'd do it, or try damn hard. If she wondered about it but was afraid, then what is it you think she fears?

I don't know your past behavior, or what she might worry about. I doubt it's your temper, but is it? Your suspicions & retaliation? Or is it all her shame? Shame is a drag.

Remorse leads to insight and conscience, and can trigger real change. But shame can just get the person into self destructive behaviors, often making it worse, or they turn it around/outward, and lash out in anger cuz it's just TOO uncomfortable and painful to experience. Better to blame someone else.

But I didn't get that from her at all. She seems to be owning it, and she told you "you didn't give up. I did'" and why say that if it isn't real? Yes I know and agree about the other self serving comments --- but that is NOT self serving. It's confessional.

Her actions are not all consistent with her texts. Her bringing a beer over and wanting to have R talk, missing numerous chances to be with the kids but saying she wants more time, calling after the fact... Struck me as odd and sad. A lot of what she said struck me that way.

Fwiw I didn't think you were "too nice" in the texts, under the circumstances---which means, you said what was on your heart and wanted her to know that in fact you are open to a reconciliation and there isn't a way to say that without love in your words. Somehow she has to think it IS possible, achievable and desireable. From my end, I thought you made it sound fairly remote. Like she'd have some mountains to climb. Many on this board think that's the thing to do but I feel as if the time for that is when they're brave and feel strong so they don't get scared off. She isn't there. But heck, I am not certain in these things...

Fwiw, your analysis about what it would take for a reconciliation, and the lines you'd have to draw for yourself and how you would have to watch yourself so that you won't become too controlling or punitive, was amazingly insightful and honest. Well done. You're one of the first LBSers to say it that way. You hit the nail on the head. I think we (LBSers) all have to wonder what we'd need to reconcile happily -- and then we have to ask ourselves if our spouses, or any spouses, can possibly achieve that.

Or, are we setting them up for failure? Consciously? If so, why?

I know recon can't be too easy or fast or it won't work, obviously. But Is it that we are so afraid of being hurt again, or so angry, that we don't want it to be easy at all, and thereby make it almost impossible? And if so, why?

MC, Don't get me wrong, I'm just exploring with you b/c you are so articulate and honest about the downfalls of the "not so forgiving" LBSer in reconciliation.

WE all know WASs who really do not want to do the work needed, or don't "get it", don't want to, can't handle the enormity of what they've done...that happens commonly. But what about the LBSer who attaches so many conditions...the M fails?

My bil (WAH/OW) wants to come back, but he can't/won't. Says he would love to be back with his family and would do anything to turn the clock back. He loves his w and deeply regrets the A, seems profoundly sad about his behavior and feels remorse and shame, etc ( I do personally think he's ready to reconcile with his wife and make it work, etc.)

But in his heart and opinion, he believes in the long run, SHE will make his life miserable. He Says he deserves it, understands it, and could take if for awhile...but that in the end, some months or years down the road, he'd have to leave b/c he feels she won't let it go, ever...and he can't have the kids witness that...and I'm sorry to say he's right. In their case, in their sitch, he IS ready and willing, but she isn't. How ironic.

So MC, how do you, as an honest man with a good heart, know what you can/should handle? Do you have any specifics about what it would take for you to stay M, and how long? Have you told her?

I am not saying anything you've done is incorrect nor am I suggesting you do anything. I admire your course of action and tone, and feel you've taken the high road. I'm asking for other reasons. How do you know you won't be the problem? Make sense?

(( j ))

hey dear friend. was gonna tell you, i posted it in the alt, to the question you asked on your status, go listen to sundays sermon! http://www.lpcag.org/

I need to get you some recipes that you can whip up fast, cheap and easy!!! let me know what your kids like!

HUGS

I've been lurking on your posts, waiting for more news I suppose. But rather than waiting any longer, I wanted to tell you what a good dad you are. It's crucial that we women read these stories, and that you know that WE know you are a good guy. I don't know your former story or significantly older posts. But what I've read here is pretty calm and impressive. Your faith is inspiring and your clarity helps me a lot. I have some questions for you.

Thanks for the kind words. Even though I know that I'm a great dad and a good guy; it's always nice to be recognized as such by others unrelated to the sitch. My faith is pretty strong; though I don't always want to recognize what I know that God wants me to do. In fact, it's pretty coincidental that you posted to me this morning as I was going to post last night. However, I had to discuss this with a great friend of mine before I went public with this. I'm at a crossroad. I've enjoyed my time separate from her; a whole lot more since she officially moved out in Jan. She had been doing things in the last 30 days that I took for just being friendly. My friend told me she was coming home. After we spent time together and conversed a couple of nights ago; I'm convinced that she's at least giving it serious thought. Right out of the blue she comments, "If we're going to do this again, we have to do it right this time." And we were off and running after that.

What do I feel about that? Frankly, scared!! Why? Just like one of her reasons for not coming back was HER fear that things would go back to the way they were. Common amongst all of us, I'm sure. Certainly, I don't want to return to that life.

She stated that we would to go to counseling. Iagree. I want to go to Retro first. She mentions how we need to start attending church together; even if we just meet there. Sounds good to me. Get to know each better and in a more intimate way this time; as we rushed into our marriage anyway. I also agree with that. She isn't to return home immediately and maybe we just do a prolonged separation now instead of a D. She hasn't been in her R with OM since after the texting volley we had a few weeks back. She mentions her changing perspective on life, marriage, and motherhood. I could go on and on with all the positive talk. But look at what I just wrote, TALK. I told her that when starts making the changes and doing the right things; I would consider recon if she were to ask. But I'm not willing to spell out the couple of things I'd like to see; I think I'll make them new DB goals and work toward it, if I have to.


Back to you. I offer the following thoughts, not all consistent. I am struck by the love between and for you both, in the tone and content of what you tell each other.

There is friendship and real concern about the other.
But regardless, If she were fully ready and willing to bravely ask for reconciliation, she'd come out and say, "I want back in. What's it gonna take?" And she'd do it, or try damn hard. If she wondered about it but was afraid, then what is it you think she fears?

Interesting observation that you make; there is a friendship and she told me as such the other night. How comfortable she is around me; how she's really starting to enjoy the time that we spend together. But we really haven't spent much time together short of the funeral last month and an hour or so the other night.

I also have started hearing about how great our M was at times and she's talked about some of the good times that we've had. So her perspective on our M is being verbalized in a positive tone now. I don't know what to think of that.

As I stated above, I think her fear is a return to cycle of life we were living during the last 2.5 years of our M. There might also be some pride involved as well. There might be some fear of rejection as well. She has always needed to liked by everyone. She doesn't like "no."

I don't know your past behavior, or what she might worry about. I doubt it's your temper, but is it? Your suspicions & retaliation? Or is it all her shame? Shame is a drag.

I don't have much of a temper. I'm pretty even-keeled. That is NOT an issue. What one issue would be is my suspicion. She has behaved pretty awful in numerous ways and, even at this moment, I'm suspicious of her motives. Why now? OM is gone, lonely? She thinks I have a GF, jealousy? Wants custody, so she comes back for a while and works a new strategy? These are all things going on in my head.

I don't think she's worried about retaliation; she has already expected me to have my own affair and she knows I'm not vengeful.

I'm sure she's worried about how I'll watch her every move, phone call, and trip outside the house. I don't want that kind of life again; but trust will be a big issue.

From my end, I thought you made (reconciliation) sound fairly remote. Like she'd have some mountains to climb. Many on this board think that's the thing to do but I feel as if the time for that is when they're brave and feel strong so they don't get scared off. She isn't there. But heck, I am not certain in these things...

Yes, she would have mountains to climb; so would I for that matter. Maybe we've been climbing them already. Lord knows, I've been dealing with myself and why I get hooked up with these types. I have almost always had a crazy GF; then I married one. The only one that was sane; I didn't know how to act around. So I blew my chance.

I made the mistake last April, when she came home in a crying breakdown after a 3 week separation; of making hard demands on her for reconciliation. In retrospect, that was a mistake because I didn't offer to make any hard changes in myself.

She told me the other night that she knew there would be demands. I told if and when the time comes; we'll discuss them.

Fwiw, your analysis about what it would take for a reconciliation, and the lines you'd have to draw for yourself and how you would have to watch yourself so that you won't become too controlling or punitive, was amazingly insightful and honest. Well done. You're one of the first LBSers to say it that way. You hit the nail on the head. I think we (LBSers) all have to wonder what we'd need to reconcile happily -- and then we have to ask ourselves if our spouses, or any spouses, can possibly achieve that.

Or, are we setting them up for failure? Consciously? If so, why?


I know recon can't be too easy or fast or it won't work, obviously. But Is it that we are so afraid of being hurt again, or so angry, that we don't want it to be easy at all, and thereby make it almost impossible? And if so, why?


We ARE afraid of being hurt again. Dammit, I've given this women numerous chances in our M; I feel we're finally about to be done with this and she comes to me with all of this talk that I would have loved to have heard 10-24 months ago. Now, I just question the motives and don't trust the reasons.

But my faith in God and her, apparent, renewed interest in living a Christian lifestyle force me to have to at least listen to hear and watch her actions.

I just want to run and get D; as quickly as possible. But HE makes me wait, for he hates divorce and my children deserve two loving parents living together. But in the end, I still ask myself; "What does Tom want?" "Why can't I have what I want?" Maybe I can; I don't know; for there are no guarantees.

Alas, the land between self-will and God's will!!

So MC, how do you, as an honest man with a good heart, know what you can/should handle? Do you have any specifics about what it would take for you to stay M, and how long? Have you told her?


First - Leave Girl's Night alone; save a couple of times per year.
Second - Be my friend on FB and list yourself as married to me.
Third - Retro
Fourth - MC
Fifth - Date while she's living at her apartment

Some of these, obviously, can occur simultaneously.

How do you know you won't be the problem?

In two words, I don't! I just know that whatever decision that I make; I'll make it in the best interest of me and my kids. All the while, I'll be praying for Him to give me guidance.


Thanks for stopping by J

Oh Lord, Tom. I'll be praying for you very hard. I will support whatever decisions you make...just pleaaaaase be careful.

(((((Tom)))))

wow {{{Tom}}}} that's pretty major isn't it?? Another friend on this site just had a similar thing happen with her hub/bf..just out of the blue also..amazing isn't it that it's EXACTLY what we wanted to hear so long ago but now you can't just be that blindly "trusting"..

But..from the TALK you had, it sounds like she is willing to try and that you are too..of course, you will both be tentative and on eggshells and I guess I should totally pray for patience a million times over for you!!

You are right tho..maybe you can have both your will and God's will wrapped into one!

Tawnya

Tawnya, I appreciate the prayers. I definitely need them. Because the truth is I still want out; but if she's changing her mind, it muddies up the situation for me.

I don't know what I want right now.

{{{MC}}} I hear ya my friend..I hear ya..however, MLC makes some valid points looking at your past posts about how you sounded and came across..I think your thoughts of slow starting out will make everything clear as you go..

At least it sounds good in theory

Tawnya