Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Walk-Away-Spouse WAW - yet another one

D'day,

We had a counseling session last nite. Here is the link where I recap all the gory details on my other thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1702221&page=1&fpart=11

Long story short, I'm worried that counseling is making things worse. She really talking about her anger/pain and concerns of being into the cycle like her mom and dad (they are divorced - he cheated on her). It's really ingrained in her to not have to rely on a man to make her a whole person. And she thinks her mom was weak for taking him back a few times, just to have him leave again.

Not good at all

Well, me personally, I'm of the differing opinion, the issues are getting out in the open instead of bottled up, you know? As my sitch deteriorated, communication became less and less which really brought things to a head.

My mother was the same way after my father 'walked out', and taught myself and my sister to be unreliant of the opposite sex.

Spellfire hit my exact thoughts reading your post in the thread about the session, you may think it didn't go well, but again, I see the fact that she's venting as such, she's telling you something. What you need to do si continue to work on yourself and a way to assure her that your 180*s are for real and you won't faulter back to your old ways.

Dday,

That's what I have been torn about, part of me thinks venting is good to get it out in the open, but when she vent's she's not really mad or emotional. Only when she talked about her parents.

Last night I had felt it just reinforced her decision. In the past she had said that she was considering the chance to give it a chance. Last night she said it was to find a reason to change her mind. All along, she said a divorce was what she wanted and she was just considering about my reaction and wanting to try. It's just so hard for me to face that I am losing my first true love - I had always just gone out and had fun, never thinking I would find someone.

Very sad....

I had a good session with my therapist yesterday. She reminded me that I was a survivor - I had a lot of pain/loss in my life at various levels. This is the most severe.

I'm still at a loss of what to do but I must accept that I may try my best, it still may not save the marriage. I can't change the past, but I can work on myself for the future, what ever that lies.

My greatest struggle now, is that she seems to have given up/be blocked in finding a reason to try. She says logically it's a no brainer, but the emotions are not letting her (all the positive feelings she had was dashed/crushed last year). She isn't sure if she wants to plant a new seed to let love grow for someone who hurt her so badly. Ironically, aside from the divorce papers, she isn't acting mad/hurt.

That's been the problem in our relationship. In the past, she may have dropped some signs, but my shutting down of my emotions due to stress had prevented me from seeing it. Now, my eyes are wide open and at times I see the negative signs (no pucker for a kiss or a check instead of lips, no active hand holding, etc) but then after that I see supporting/hopefull signs (puckers/leans in for a kiss, lingering hugs, etc.) We had talked about that, but she said perhaps I was seeing things that weren't there. I know I didn't imagine her leaning in and puckering for a kiss (she doesn't initiate, I usually do - I know, bad move), nor accepting an invitation to sit of my lap and hug. Perhaps it was her way of experimenting to see if she had any feeling left. Or she's luring me into just accepting her demands in a divorce. Or there is really hope. No ideas.

What are your thoughts that I bring up the fact that she may be emotionally blocking seeing any possiblities as she hasn't really addressed the hurt/anger? I was debating whether to do it during counseling or just bring it up when she asks if there was anything I wanted to talk about. she does that occassionally as we are going to bed after we had spent an evening watching a TV show or movie after the kids went to bed. Unfortunately, she's usually so tired, it only happens for a few minutes before she starts to drift asleep. Usually I'm hugging her (she doesn't hug back, but she may have her hand on top of mine) - we used to spoon - her back to me, but lately she lays on her back I am on my side. She used to spoon me when I was "shut off" - which is the killer part - and I wouldn't respond.

So do you think I should bring it up one on one or wait till the counseling session?

Sorry this is a long one, but it was a bad nite last nite.

I really needs some help/encouragement as I so badly want to just give up but know I can't as what's at stake. Please take the time to read this.

It was such a blur/haze as far as exactly what happened but here's what I can remember of the chain of events.

We had talked during the day about what was going on for Sat after 9:00 AM soccer so as we were going to bed, I asked if she gave it any more thought. She got upset as she felt that it seems I really look forward to us spending time together (whether as a family or one on one) but she is still uncomfortable about it.

She said she was getting frustrated as she says that right now she feels we're roommates that are friends and is still uncomfortable about the level of "affection" I show her (hugs, kiss, touches and hand holding). I had tried to tone it down to just a hug and kiss in the morning, when she gets home and when we go to bed. I know I still touch her while we are sitting next to each other. Particularly last nite as we were watching episode 6 of season 1 of Lost - the Korean wife was torn of leaving her husband before getting on the plane. It touched me emotionally and I thought her as well so I know I got too huggy/touchy as she said "stop it", which I did.

She then brought up discussion on the custody hearing that's coming up. She had asked how my conversation with my lawyer went. I told her I called a lawyer (friend of my boss) Weds since I never heard from her guy and wanted to know what I was suppose to do. I didn't give her a lot of details other than I told him that I am trying hoping to save the marriage. He wound up calling her guy as they were good friends, which is how she got her call from the lawyer on Weds.

She told me that she still hasn't found a reason to change her mind. She had spent the first 2 weeks really trying, but just couldn't find any positive feelings left and that it has all been replaced by negative. She feels that no matter how much I have changed, she will still see the person who hurt, frustrated and made her so angry. I told her I was sorry to hear that, but I had expected that she wouldn't be able to find any emotional reason when she was feeling that way.

I asked her could we try a separation instead of a divorce. She said she considered it but didn't know how to do that so she just filed for a divorce since she felt she had no option. She felt that the option was either get a divorce or stay miserable. I then was stupid enough to offer that since she hadn't consider the third option - that I would get it so we can work on the relationship together - that isn't that something that was worth a try.

I followed that stupid move by asking her why she thought I wanted to save the marriage. She got to the point to acknowledge that I still love her deeply. I told her that I do love her and I would love to make her happy, even if it meant letting her go. What has me torn is giving up and the price it will have on the kids. I asked her why we had the kids if she was feeling that way for 8 years (particularly as the youngest will turn 3 at the end of March). She did acknowledge that it got worse after the second as I was traveling so far from work (almost 2 hours each way) and she felt that I wasn't there to support and help her.

I told her I recognize all the mistakes I made in the past and I know I can't go back in time to fix them. I told her I was working on fixing me. I then asked her if she felt I've "gotten it" now.

She said she's torn as part of her thinks I'm acting this way out of desperation and that she is also frustrated that I had actually "gotten it" now. She wished I hadn't as it would have been easier.

I told her that I understand now that a single person can only fix themselves, but it will take two to fix the relationship. The stakes were so high (with the 2 kids) that I can't just give up, but hope that she can find a way to really try.

She then got agitated as she said that was what she was doing over the last 3 to 4 weeks. I told her I had felt that she was really struggling over the first 2 weeks, but over the more recent couple of weeks, it felt like she was just trying to keep the peace. She said that was what she was doing over the last several years, but she didn't think she was doing that now.

She then asked me what I thought it meant to really try. That's when I got into forgiveness - not forgetting the past, but being able to look beyond it to try to build a relationship. She said that she doesn't think that she can do that as she is so frustrated/hurt/angry. I then wound up getting into what's at stake when she abruptly/angrily cut me off as she felt that I was just repeating myself and that she just wants to go to sleep.

I didn't say anything as that is part of my problem - she gets angry so infrequently (including the last 4 weeks) I can count how many times she was angry (loud and swearing) on 1 hand over the course of the 9 years of our marriage - that I don't know how to deal with it. In my past, I would deal with it very strongly to crush the anger, but never did that with my wife. When she told me she had filed, she did tell me that while I never did that to her, she knew about my past and was afraid.

She then got upset about why I didn't respond - so I just agreed wtih her and rolled over to go to sleep. I had really wanted to jump up and down about how unfair I felt it was that she starts talking about this stuff only when we are about to go to sleep and gets upset about how late we wind up talking. But I didn't.

I'm not sure how it happened, I could have sworn she asked a question or said something about I shouldn't beat myself up about the fact that she's angry/upset - which is something I had done a few times the last 4 weeks. I started to respond when she abruptly cut me off about not listening to her about wanting to go to sleep and wind up going to sleep in the family room. I let her settle down a little bit and I then did ask her if she wanted an extra blanket since it was cold last nite. She declined as she said she had a sweatshirt and socks and there were several blankets in the family room already.

This morning when she woke me to get ready for work, I asked her for a minute. I then just appologized for not listening to her last nite, both in bed and while we are watching Lost. She just responded OK, but wouldn't even look at me - I didn't try to hug or kiss her.

I got ready and as I was getting ready to leave, I asked her about tonite (our oldest wanted to go to Applebee's for dinner). I asked her if that was ok in case he asked me. She said yes. Then she appologized for being "mean and nasty" last nite. I told her that was ok as she was just expressing how she felt. She then asked for a hug to crack her back. Of course I obliged, but I didn't attempt a kiss - the first time in since I met her.

I know I messed up really badly. I hope she shows up for counseling on Monday so we can try to talk about it more. I'm really torn about calling her, but know that would be a mistake.

I'm on the verge of giving up. I was really sad when I saw my youngest this morning (with all the hope and dreams in his eyes) so I don't want to give up. Does anyone see any hope?

For what it's worth, I think you did ok last night. You should try and extinguish all feelings of giving up just now. You're a long way from that.

I'm going through a separation at the moment so I know how heart breaking it is for your W not to understand how much you really want to work on your M. No matter how much you believe that it can work out, it seems their minds are already made up. My W told me that she had no feelings for me anymore either. It hurts like hell I know. In a way, I'm hoping that the separation might help me a bit because I know it wasn't working when we were still under the same roof. For your sitch, it sounds to me as though your W isn't 100% sure of herself. you know your sitch better than I do though.

I'll keep looking in to see how you're getting on. It does sound as though you're in a similar place to me and I know how awful a place that really is.

I appreciate the encouragement - it's really hard as I'm really fighting the feeling to just give her a call and talk to her. I know that's the wrong thing to do. I have all the crazy thoughts going through my head (i.e. she's not coming home tonite). I must remember that I can't control what she does, but all I can do is be the best husband/person I can be.

Thanks for listening

Yea no more of this. Don't touch, kiss, or say ILY anymore. It makes her feel guilty and pressured to respond in kind.


2 weeks is nothing, it'll take more like 2 months and that's after you've pulled away from her. She'll get over it eventually as you continue to not argue with her and agree with her feelings. Feelings can take a long time to change but that always do.


They don't ever consider the fact that they'll still be miserable even with a divorce. Divorce =/= Happiness.

Don't tell her you are fixing things, show her. Also as hard as it is to do, agree with her that a divorce is the best option. That will help drop her resistance. The more you resist the D, the more she'll push for it.


My W said the exact same thing the first time she left.

There's is hope but not anytime soon. She needs to let go of her anger and for that to happen you need to let go of her. You are too much in her face and every time she sees you it's just a reminder. You need to GAL and start treating her more "coldly" for lack of a better word. Give her what she "says" she wants and she'll find out that sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for...

No more R talks like above from you anymore. She needs to start the talks and for now. Don't contact her first anymore either. It's going to be a waiting game for you now as she deals with all of this and the best thing you can do is nothing at all. Every time you say something you run the risk of slipping plus I'm sure she expects more of the same anyway. You stopping R talks will help her not feel pressure and surprise her as well.

Guess I fell into the trap where she started to talk about it and I got carried away. I'm just worried about being too cold/closed off as that was the big issue we had.

Thanks for your encouragement

It means a lot to know someone is trying to support me

I am horrible at this last resort move

Last nite she was walking by when I was sitting on the floor and invited her for a hug with my arms (no words). She straddled me and gave me one.

When I was shoveling the driveway with my boys, she came out to ask some questions. Before she turned away, I asked for a kiss and we had a light kiss.

I've really cut down on the hugs, touches and kisses. She had noticed (because I was dumb enough to bring it up)

Like I said, I'm really bad at this last resort move and am worried about beeing weak and pathetic looking.

I know I looked weak and pathetic this afternoon as I was cleaning out one of my file cabinets when I found an old V-Day card from her - she had written something very warm and touching about loving me more each day and how happy she was I her husband. She was in the room when I got teary eyed. She looked at the card, read it and flipped it over and said - it's from 2000. I asked her how it made her feel sad reading it and she was very casual about saying no, those were happy times.

Before she left for her errands, she did come to give a hug.

It's killing me that I feel I have so little control and just need to try and influence her ultimate decision.

It did sound like she was willing to go to counseling again on Monday. I had thought about bringing up what we talked about Thursday nite - how everytime she sees me, all she can feel is the hurt, frustration and pain I caused her. And she can't imagine trying to find a reasone to plant a seed of love for someone who did that to her.

I can't argue with it - I tried Thurs - seem my earlier very long post.

Yesterday afternoon when talking with friends, I really wanted to just give up. This morning I saw my boys as we were waking up and know I can not give up.

I just need the strength and wisdom to make this happen.

I know I can't fix the relationship, but need to be able to help her find a reason to want to try to fix our relationship.

I need to stay focused. Thanks for your advice.