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Frank,


Start by getting on your knees and praying, ask for forgiveness ask for guidance.talk to a pastor, priest.

I'm terrified of this so why do you think I 'let' it happen?

I want you to post.

new thread

If I do have carpet Frank didn't say so.
I am not doing this unless Frank says he wants too.

Edit - nevermind.

ok with me

Fd,
You think you disappointed by saying you're an addict/alcoholic?

No, you made me very proud and touched me deeply with that. I know how hard it is to say, believe me, I know. It's a BIG step. It's a humbling but exciting leap forward into your new life. As I said, "recovery is about so much more than not drinking..." I'm always amazed at those who put 12 step programs down. Sure they don't help everyone. But of the people who really do recover their lives (not just "quit" drinking) more than 85% used some sort of program that includes spiritual components. Like Scott Peck says, emotional and psychological well being are in part based on spiritual wellness too. It's all part of who we are in total.

The guy who helped me the most in my program, was a car thief who first gave me his handkerchief when I broke down. He often checked in on me just because. He reached out to me without any expectation of me in return. No agenda. Just kindness. I was so moved. Oh btw, I was an inpatient b/c I was pregnant when I got help; the baby inside me motivated me obviously. What a wacky crazy thing. Knew I couldn't live with thinking I'd hurt my own kid. So yeah, I got help. Saw "clients" in the place. A dizzying experience for me. A hard one. But like childbirth, though painful - it was also incredibly profound. Let it be. Open your heart and mind to the possibility that a higher power in some form, exists. And that you matter to that HP and He will help...even frankd...yep, even little old you are loved. More than you know.

That was my biggest revelation and I was "a quasi- believer" before rehab. I mean, I thought there was something after life, but didn't really know what that was. But I just didn't "get it" --that He'd step into my life actively if I invited him to do so. Lisetn, I'm not great at quoting scripture or "witnessing", etc. because it used to turn me off big time. I could not stand the people with bibles coming to my door and would hide!

But I just discovered something there, that I did not "know" in my head before. I wanted in my heart, to believe that God really would be there for me, but it seemed evangelical to me and that was a turn off in my childhood. And I know how talk of God turns some of you off, but I would be remiss if I didn't say one more thing on this rehab event b/c it was a big deal in my life. Here's the deal -- I had a miracle in that place. If you assume for a minute that I am sincere, you can see why I have to say it out loud at least once.

My nephew announced he's atheist. I'm not going to argue with him. But he asked me for my opinion and "evidence" of God and other sincere questions but I only had two minutes before my flight. So I said to him, "It can be hard to believe in a God creator and mastermind, and all the bible stuff, (or the Talmud, or whatever) and I can see having doubts and serious misgivings and unanswered questions that haunt us...but when I see a neurosurgery using a Gamma knife, curing a brain tumor, or a rocket ship taking a man to the moon, nano science, enduring literature, complex musical pieces that were written centuries ago, the Northern lights, my babies at birth, or nursing, or writing jokes that make people laugh and laughter itself, all the complexities of the human body and our love for each other, when I consider all of these things, it's simply harder for me to believe that all this resulted from the random banging together of some molecules..." and I also don't believe in purposelessness....(PLUS, I hate to think I've been talking to myself all these years...) Enough of my religion talk. I rarely do it. But sometimes it feels wrong to stay silent when the issue is one close to my heart and you and I have met.


I got another miracle-- in that my M is surviving longer than I thought it could. AND it Might even make it all the way. If you read my posts 2 years ago, (which you did, Frankd) you'd know something 'magical' or "highly unusual" happened to me and my family. Major Revelations, "aha" moments, whatever. I think it was holy b/c that's how it felt to me. So I call it a miracle. Call it what you want. Just be open to having one of your own. Please. For your daughters at least, open to that possibility.

NOW--RE: WIfe's actions---

Although parts of your w's behavior and comments bother me as they do others, think about the fact that she is trying to help you and your daughter. She surely sees it that way, and from other things she's saying and doing, I tend to believe that.

Your d18 showed you a letter yesterday (?) that showed how much pain she was in and it was an SOS... And after that, and coming here, you drank again....

So of course she fell apart. In her eyes, you ignored her SOS...so she called who? Her other parent! Recall that kids take the drinking as a form of rejection, they think they are a reason you drink. I know this is not true, but the kids feel it, and they still feel hurt by it. Even though you and I know that the kids are reasons for staying sober, they only see their requests and SOS"s going unheeded/ignored and the only reason(s) they can think of is either you don't care about their needs, or you can't help yourself b/c you are an alcoholic.

(( fyi I used to blame myself for my dad's drinking and so, I got good grades, ran for and won class president, chose to attend and graduated from my Dad's law school, etc. I wanted him to be proud of me and therefore stop drinking. Dad WAS proud of me. He did not stop drinking...until I was an adult. Why? I don't know why he was an alcoholic but I do know NOW, that it had nothing to do with me. Your d18 does not know this. She may think she is stressing you out with her problems, and blame herself a bit.


Your wife's response...well, What else could your wife do, given the cry for help from your daughter? YES your wife had other options but little time to figure it all out. And so, she set a boundary. She made a move based on concern.
And my guess is your w sees her move into the house as a sacrifice for her to make for your daughter's welfare and yours.

You know, you could use this as an "opportunity". She'll be able to see your changes...IF you make them. Get the help from professionals, not w or your daughters. It is not their job to get you well. It isn't. Too much has been written about what your w was supposed to do for you when you were miserable and that somehow, her "lack of support" lead you to drink. You can't blame your drinking on other's and expect the drinking to change.

You are going to go back and forth between accepting the label and stigma you attach to it. You'll face real scary stuff when you see some of the 12 steps but at least people in these programs DO make amends (if they follow thru). Don't you ever wonder how it would be if EVERYONE actually took an honest moral inventory and faced the harm they'd caused others, and tried to make amends for them? I think the world would be a much much better place. For that reason alone, I LOVE the program...

No stigma attaches if you don't let it. I know employers who look for people in recovery programs with some time under their belt. When I meet someone who has been in recovery for say, over 2 years or so, I know I'm probably dealing with someone with integrity, honesty and insight and am usually inclined to deep friendships with them. We don't waste time on superficialities, and instead form meaningful connections. You'll find a lot less loneliness in a program. Best, hardest thing I ever did.

May your vision of a "Higher Power" bless and protect you. May you open your heart and mind to the idea that He exists, He cares, He will help YOU. Just open your mind to it, b/c where the head goes, the heart follows. Okay, I am done with my "ministering" for the day. Sorry if it's a turn off, but this once I felt compelled...and I'm rooting for you.

((( j )))

What happened to you?

I will, for my Daughters.

Yeah, I can see that she thinks she's 'helping me' but she wants me out of the house eventually. Not going to happen but it shows me her intentions.


No, I can't blame others. And, this is not an 'opportunity'. She clearly doesn't want me around if she had her choice.


I understand. I guess I need to find the right group. Any suggestions?

FIrst you need to "detox" (which doesn't require actual DT's) but get some interventional treatment, some intensive support or get into a professional program from a doctor. I didn't do my inpatient stuff here or in this state as I lived elsewhere, so I can't recommend a particular place around her but I'd look for something less "Hollywood" than what you see on TV. (talk about whiners, I have a few clients who are celebrities and ....never mind)

The "miracle" is something we can discuss later as it's too personal for here.

Even if your w says she wants you out, well of course! What she believes now leads her to wonder how to foresee a life with you under the same roof, as you are now. Yet she also feels she cannot leave d18 alone with you. I mean, she's in a corner.

You can say she "secretly" wanted this, or has an evil plan, but it seems to me that her intentions were originally to leave you with d's and the house, but YOUR drinking and actions/words and concerns the girls have, prevented that, and called her back to the home. Not her "intentions" to do so, but her reaction to the cards you dealt her and your d18.

Assume for a minute that wife loves you, but thinks the M cannot work. I can imagine that. So she left you, and left you with the kids, and the house and asked for NO money for support.

But your daughters call her b/c they miss her - OF COURSE -- and that does not mean they don't love you enough--just that they love their mom. THANK GOD! But you take it as hurtful to you...I don't get that.

If you are worrying them, & the drinking does worry them, (and you admitted drinking was a problem in the past), and though you think you were not really showing the alcohol, somehow d18 knew...hey, she knew b/c it DID show...

POINT being, your wife is very likely to be trying to do the best thing she can do in this sitch. She is the one losing all support financially, she does not get to see the girls as often as you do, she does not live in a home like you do, nor does she have the job skills you do to earn a good living. But somehow it is you feeling sorry for yourself and it is you choosing to drink, not your wife. Ever think of what she has lost?

Ever wonder if the complaints she made about you being negative, might mean she wanted to keep herself from going down the drain with the same negativity? I am NOT defending her A...but I'm saying I can see why she might want to save herself. And be happy. She made a choice she felt would lead her to more happiness. Now you need to do that.

And am I really the only one who thinks that if you get your act together NOW and keep it up, the worst that can happen is your wife and daughters will see you in a much better light and the chance for a recon LATER will grow a lot?


There'll be no OM for now, and your d will have a "family" for now. You'll be under the same roof. You can get outpatient care that is all day, but you go home at night. Do it. It's intense but covered by most health insurance and you'll get support all day and that will show, as you come home to "face them" each night. Relax, or learn to. This will limit your exposure to w and d's until you can handle it. Either way, you can't start this off with just a few meetings, under the circumstances with w and d's. They'll see more change and you'll get more support with an outpatient deal.

make sense?
j-

Yes, I can see that.

I think that is her thought process also. But I don't think she is happy either.

Maybe you are. I don't see a chance for a recon ever. They will see me in a better light, that's for sure. As far as W and I, well I think the damage has been done.