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Thanks, thru. I take it you're in the same area?

Yes, getting involved in something else is a good idea. Just for a change, if nothing else. I'm so tired of feeling like I'm just existing.

I know what you mean--getting back to the person you were before you were married. The interesting thing is that I feel more like my authentic self than I have in years; I was able to "differentiate" in my marriage over the past few years. Of course, I think H perceived it as pulling away, but he's so used to enmeshment. I know who I am, I know what I need and what I want. I just can't seem to get there. But then, I think this is a time to heal more than anything else.

Yes, I'm in the Indy area.

I know what you mean about just existing. I think that is a good way to look at it. "A time to heal". I've been trying to look at it as a time to grow as well.

And I know what you mean about the spouse seeing differentiation as pulling away. A few years ago I was really getting my own life. I was going out to concerts with friends a couple times a month and having a good time. When I started doing this, I was including H in my invitations, but he never wanted to go so I stopped inviting him. After a few months he sat me down, said he thought I was pulling away and asked me to stop. So I did. Funny that now the shoe is on the other foot how my asking him to come back to the R is "controlling".

But now I'm pulling away again. Who knows what will happen now.

"Authentic Self"...I like that term.

For me it wasn't so much doing things separately--we'd sort of always done that. H had a lot of outside interests--which I don't think until recently involved affair behavior. So it was either develop my own or be bored. Actually I resented his many outside interests, because with a child at home it meant I was quite limited in pursuing my own interests. So I deferred many of them. However, over time I came to a realization that H really didn't have the capacity for being supportive much of the time, or at least not in a way that was easily recognizable. At the very beginning our relationship was quite codependent, but while H was away being a monk for a couple of years, I did a lot of healing and got to know myself. He says when he returned and our relationship was renewed, it didn't feel as "close" to him. Partly because I had some difficulty dealing with his abandonment, but more because I was just healthier. I struggled with that balance between enmeshment and separateness, and I think ultimately I became fairly self-differentiated. Eventually I will sort all of this out--what was differentiated, what was avoidance, what was response to being hurt a lot--i.e. what was healthy and what wasn't. Right now isn't the time to do that because I'm not exactly objective.

BTW--it's so true, your last statement. The opposite of hate is indifference. There's just so much of that in all my relationships (except with D12) and it's hard to take.

Indifference. Yeah.

Just journaling here. Reflecting on--being valued for who I am rather than just what I do. Or not! So I've tried to do a lot for people in order to feel accepted, to be a part of something outside myself. Sometimes it worked.

"The spirit we have, not the work we do, is what makes us important to those around us." Can't remember where I read that. Apparently I don't have a very "attractive" spirit, because no one seems even remotely interested unless I'm doing something for them. Gratitude is apparently not a good basis for relationships.

What am I not doing, or doing wrong? What is it about me that contributes to so much isolation? Because this is where I always seem to end up. If this sounds like an ongoing pity party, I'm sorry--I am the common factor in all of this, I'm trying to figure out how I contribute to my own isolation. Just journaling.

Why do you think it's something you're doing wrong? Maybe it's the people you are hanging out with have problems and not you? I went to a church a few years ago and didn't have that many close friends there. It was lots of college students and moms with young babies, and they just had really busy lives and in different stages of life than me I think. The church I've been going to this year has more middle-aged people like me and are just more open and friendly really.

I get a lot of enjoyment for the stuff I do volunteer for, so even if others are wanting stuff from me, I feel like I'm getting a lot from it also. My favorites are volunteering at an after-school program b/c the kids really do appreciate you. They hug you and say ILY and stuff like that. I loved volunteering for the homeless/poor at Thanksgiving also. Really makes you grateful for stuff you have. I plan to do that every T-giving now; a great new tradition and have the kids join me the years I have them (every other year I guess). Karen

Hoozh,

I struggle with this as well. I think that sometimes you have to be The Taker, and not just The Giver. I am a pleaser, too, and it emphatically DOESN'T lead to mutually-healthy relationships.

This line was a classic:



Puppy

I'm not a very good Taker. It makes me feel--insecure. Afraid I'll become dependent. Or a pain in the butt. So of course I always find myself in relationships in which I am the giver. And I think that's why people don't tend to stay in touch with me--once they don't need me any more. Hence, my currently empty life; I'm not in a position to be a giver, and that's probably pretty clear.

On the other hand, H is very much a taker. Has many relationships, friendships, remains in touch with people, is considered charming. But I just don't know how to do it. I wish I did. I'm not saying this makes me virtuous, saintly, better than him--I'm saying it's crippling and painful. With H I tried to ask him for what I needed from the marriage, and ultimately realized he just couldn't give much. And when I couldn't give him much any more, he moved on to someone else.

But see, I thought I did have a lot of friends. Not just people who needed me. More than in recent memory, in fact. People with whom I had a lot in common, similar places in life, etc. Maybe it's just too awkward right now, altho I swear I'd just love to go have coffee with someone and just talk about our kids or the weather or anything else besides my life. But folks are too busy, don't return calls, and at this point I've quit calling because it bothers me too much to be turned down.

Yes, I get a lot out of "giving back," also. And I will continue to do that, because it's just the right thing to do. But I'm not talking about therapeutic relationships here, or doing good for others to put things in perspective--I know all about that. Right now I just need to feel part of something, feel connections to people, feel some continuity in my life because it feels like I just landed in some foreign country and don't know anyone and have no past here. And that's a very uncomfortable and stressful feeling.

PS--no, I haven't lost my faith. What I have lost is any sense of community in my life. And I am one of those people who make poor hermits--I need community to feel whole. I know we feel God's love through other people, and when we are isolated it's harder to feel that.

Hi Hoosier, how bout starting a support group...peeople who are going thru the same thing..it's good to come here but sometimes you need that face to face support along with hugs....You sound so very sad...I know your story and it breaks my heart.Your story is much like mine...same ages...daughter...old girlfriend...

Maybe just something small to begin with...I am thinking about this myself... I feel as if The Lord has spoken to me about this....for me to be a vessel for someone who is losing all faith and hope because of their circumstances...to lead them to Christ first of all and then to pray and just hold on to Jesus for help...comfort...and the peace we get from him...

Just a thought.... you know our families love us and they can only listen to us for so long... then they just of sort of deaf listen....but they are going thru the same thing we can relate to each other..

God be with you Hz....may God bring you a happier New Year for you and your daughter...