Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? Is the answer blowing in the wind?

((((Trixi))))

Man, that's a lot to deal with! I'm so sorry. I'm glad you're seeing the doctor for the depression.

I love all of L_L's suggestions. I think avoiding R talks would be a fantastic 180 for you to try! (I know, you'll be shocked to hear me say that ).

I completely agree with finding some pampering/stress relief, too. I know the torch is one thing you really enjoy - can you set aside some "me time" each week to be sure you do that? Some other regular pampering sounds like it's in order, too.

Swamped at work this week but I'll post more soon.

Nervous about tomorrow.
I had sent a TM to H saying that I would get him tomorrow morning at "8:30, k?" and he never responded so a few hours later I sent a 'ping' TM. About an hour and a half after that he called. Apparently he only got the ping and not the time. He was like "yeah, I was just sitting here watching mind-numbing TV, thought I would take a break, saw that you pinged." He said that he was waiting for me to call him and was surprised that I hadn't called. He had the sweet tone to his voice. I was all business; not too friendly, but not too curt, either.

We hung up quickly, but afterwards I felt ...disturbed. I hate that hearing his voice makes me miss him more. I hate that he tells me one thing "I love taking care of you" and does something different (abandons me). sigh

I have an appt scheduled to see a solution based therapist on Tuesday and an email to another (so I can interview them.) I'll call the doctor on Monday (or Tuesday if they're closed) to schedule an appt to get all my hormones checked. I found an attorney who is "okay" with the idea of consultations to determine what your rights are and what a likely court outcome would be--and then if LATER you find you need help, they will help you. IOW, just exactly what I want. I do not want more than what's due me, nor do I want to get less, either. If my H really wants to divorce, my hope is we can reach an agreement without a big cost. I will call that attorney next week.
I took my mom out to lunch the other day and she tried to argue me out of being an introvert. I told her there was a book that showed the brain chemistry and she says "Oh, there's a book for everything". Sigh. Then I tell her I have always needed some quiet time and she says "But, how did you *get* that way?" I say "Uh, it's my temperament-God made me that way" and she says "I wonder if you've had thyroid problems since you were a kid." argh!!! I found a blurb from a book that said that introversion is hardwired and not a disability. I sent her a paragraph outlining what's 'good' about introverts (They are dependable, persistent, flexible, and lack vanity.) I asked her to PLEASE STOP making me wrong for being who I am and accept that I just work differently from her. Hopefully it works.
Main point of this long winded paragraph--I am trying to make strides to take care of myself.

Wish me luck tomorrow. Oh, and no worries about anything 'bad' happening, the passes are clear and dry- there will be no 8 hour drives, no overnights. It's a one day trip. easy peasy.

Interesting turn of events (we'll see if they come to pass).
While we were at the rehab visting SS, there was a lecture we attended and a movie we watched. H started asking me more about the family counseling days and if I *really* thought it would be good for him to go.

I said "The kid crying his out in the back of the car was saying he doesn't feel important to you. Just imagine if you said "S, I rearranged things at work to be here to support YOU. He's gone thru hell these last few years. It's only 3 days out of a whole lifetime..not to mention, I am sure we will all learn something....besides, when you love someone, you do stuff you don't "feel" like doing because it's what THEY need."

SS got out of his group session and said "My counselor wants to see you guys. He got pissed that you aren't coming to family session." (SS didn't know that H was already starting to soften.) The group counselor kept asking SS, "how does it make you feel?" about us not coming. SS had a difficult time really saying how he felt. The three of us sat down the counselor and SS spoke straight out of his head and said "I would appreciate it if you would come. It seems to be beneficial." Counselor tried to get him to open up, but he wouldn't get to the 'feelings'. By ourselves, H said that SS didn't say any "feelings". I said to H "The kid was crying his eyes out in the car on the way over here. He got raw with his feelings and it didn't "net" him anything. He told me that he gave up trying to talk to you because it wouldn't change anything. The kid is afraid to expose his heart and say the real deal because if you say "no", you'll be hurting his heart."

H is talking with his boss today to see if he can get the time off; we'll take my laptop so H can get some work done. IOW, H sees the value in going. YAY!

Then he says he knows that our situation is going to come up. (ie, he's going to have to explain why he has a roommate, etc.) He knows that it's going to bring up stuff between the two of us and he thinks it will probably help us. And, he thinks we should go to counseling together. (!)

What he exactly said is "We should go to counseling together because I think we have a hard time telling each other all of our feelings. It's probably going to hurt, though. I don't know how things will turn out."

I said that I felt like I was being set up. That if he knew what direction he was going for sure, then I didn't want to go.
He said he was right on the fence. But, for sure, he loves me, he misses me, he can't seem to stay away from me and he thinks we must have "something" between us. So, it's time to explore it further. But there would probably be some pain going thru the process.

I said that I was fine digging gravel out of a wound to try to save a leg. That I would know it would hurt, but I would want to get all the ucky stuff out so that it could heal properly. However, if you know you are going to end up amputating the leg, then I would rather not dig out the gravel-just chop the leg off. He said that would be cruel and he wouldn't do that. He really wants to explore the possibility of reconciliation.

He realized that SS and he are lucky to have me in their lives. (duh) He said that he loves taking care of me (about mid-way thru, I was feeling quite ill from all the cigarette smoke that was attached to everyone and how the building smelled.) H was very attentive. The video made him feel like he really could kick smoking. It also talked about having principles, morals, doing what you say, etc. H didn't cite those things, but I think those things made a dent.

H is supposed to call around and find a counselor. He said he would do that today. We'll see. I don't know that I will hold him to that given that he is going to have to prep for an unexpected 3 day absence at work today. (We'll leave in the wee hours tomorrow.)

Feeling a little hopeful....

Glad to hear that he is thinking better. I still think it is the distance from home that allows him to be a real person. IMO the relationship with RM is probably the problem. In front of RM he has to treat you like trash. But when he gets out of the house he can be himself.

Hey Trixi-

Good idea to keep thinking about *yourself* and stay a little detached from his comments. Good idea to let him be the one who brings up any R talk. Way to go. I think your sitch does still have possibility, provided that you keep emotional distance right now and don't let him call the shots. It seems to be working when you back off, that he draws closer. In my experience, WAS don't usually recommit overnight- it's a gradual process. They may not even admit it verbally for a while but their actions show baby steps. Remember to keep your needs in mind. Does this guy have the potential to be good enough for you? Keep with the DB! Good luck on the trip!

((Trixi))

How are things going? I think you're probably still on your trip. Hope that it's going well.

Thanks for asking about me on my thread. I will post more soon. Lots to post, just need to sort out my thoughts. But we just had a round of layoffs at work today that wiped out about 50% of my team so "processing" that, at the moment. ugh.

Well, I'm back. That was an exhausting 3 days. They kept us very busy. It was emotionally draining. It dredged up crap for me from my childhood, some of the crap my H has done, in addition to stupid stuff SS has done.

The bed was uncomfortable, so it was hard to get a good nights sleep.
H and I got into a few different tiffs.

I enjoyed the "groups" a lot. Learned a TON about the chemistry of addiction, the dynamics of how the whole family is "sick", great lectures about personal responsibility.

Most interesting thing was that the center said that SS should NOT go to H's house. But NOT because of the living sitch. The counselor said "Well, that house is clearly not safe for SS. However, even if it WAS safe, SS needs to step up and be a man and quit relying on daddy." She did drop a couple comments that H may want to seriously consider AA or coming back to the rehab center himself. After it was explained to me, I totally agreed that SS should not go to H's house or my house. No more 'rescuing' from me. He's 21 and needs to be expected to act like a 21yo.

H brought up counseling for us. We are scheduled for next Thurs morning.

I am going to go to an al-anon meeting tomorrow evening.

I'm pooped.

Journaling
Well, I did go to an al-anon meeting on Friday. It was good. There is a CoDA meeting this Wednesday I think I may go to.

H and I got together Saturday and he told me that he had written a list of what he thinks about when he thinks about me and our relationship. Sort of a free form association/stream of consciousness; what was interesting to him was that it started out with things like 'attraction' 'urge' 'smell' 'desire' and morphed into 'friendship' 'stability'. (He didn't have the list with him, so he was just giving broad brush strokes.) He is hoping that the counselor will be able to illuminate why he wrote the words in the order he did. He also said that he hoped going to counseling would help us be completely open and honest. I said "what if the counselor says it sounds like you love me?" and he says "Well, THAT much is obvious. I DO love you."

While we were at the rehab thing, a guy read his first 'step' and it included cheating on his wife, going out til all hours, not being there for his kids, etc. The guy was crying as he read it to the group and I cried too. After it was over and we were headed to go burn the paper, my H says "that brought up a lot of stuff for you, huh?" And I said "probably not how you might be thinking" and he said "you saw a lot of me in it, right?" and i said i did and he said "I saw me in it too. It opened my eyes some." He then said something about bad behavior in bars and that I 'probably didn't want to know everything' and by then I was pissed and said "yeah, lets move forward basing things on lies and omitted facts." I got SUPER agitated and wanted someTHING from him. We went back to the room and I said that I wanted a heartfelt apology and for him to admit that he had a drinking problem. (UGH!! STUPID!) He minimized things; I said what I HATE which is "You're in DENIAL!" (Rolling eyes at myself) Even as I was speaking, in my brain I was screaming to myself "shut up!! it's not helping; he's shutting down SHUT UP" But my mouth just kept at it.

He was visibly irritated and annoyed and left to go to an AA meeting with SS. I went back to the room and cried and cried. And felt more and more lonely. It reminded me of when he would go out and I would never know when he would come home. It was not a good time.

A couple hours later he was back. I had a chance to nap a little. He came in and could tell I'd been crying and said "how you doing? feeling lonely?" which got the waterworks going for me. Anyway, he said "That was wrong of me to do those things to you. I was acting out. It was mean. I am sorry. Will you be able to forgive me?" I said "yes" and he smiled- so I added "I said I will be ABLE to, not that I already HAVE!" (Which is true to a degree. I still feel like I want to see some real REAL remorse.)

Anyway, the rehab place stirred up lots and lots of memories of what happened when we were together and he was going out. His position right now is that the DUI was a wake up call/slap in the face. He doesn't think he has a problem because he doesn't drink ALL the time or feel compelled to; I said "If it hurts yourself or those around you, it's a problem. It's not the frequency- it's what happens when you *do* drink." He did start to 'see' what I was saying. And I didn't actually want to argue about it, but he was bringing up how OTHER people have drinking problems, not him. And that when he was going out to bars when we were together he was "acting out"-not having a problem with alcohol--and that for years prior he didn't really drink...but even he had to say just as soon as he said that, "of course, 'guy at rehab' didn't drink for years before he relapsed, so...." Whatever. Whenever *I* say anything about it, he gets defensive, so I need to shut my yap.

Our counselor is Gottman trained, so I am looking forward to that.
Day after tomorrow I pick SS up at rehab and take him to a sober living house near the rehab place. IOW, 2.5 hours away. And that is fine by me. I think he needs to live a distance away so he doesn't think he has an easily accessible saftey net.
That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. :P

Very good Trixi. I never thought he would go or open his ears, or any of the things he did. You got a lot out of him.

Thanks for popping in Sara. The man that went, that listened-- THAT is the guy I love. HE is the one I hold out hope for. Like I said, I had a feeling once he saw how it worked there and how important it was for SS, that he would change his mind. Underneath his selfishness and acting out, there is a good man. Of course, if he ultimately decides he has to toss me out so he can be a rock star, then I will amend what I just said.

I told my BFF about the list and she said that she thought the order it was written in was "right" for a marriage. That without desire, attraction etc, all you have is friendship and who wants a sexless marriage? (I agree.)
She also told me she was watching a show about a gal doing a gastric bypass surgery. The H had cheated and done other hurtful things and the W had stress eaten and gained weight. The part that made my BFF think of me was when the H said that his W made him a better man and that he was glad his W had believed in him and their marriage because he would have just walked had it not been for that. And now, he would spend the rest of his life showing her how much he loved her. My BFF sees me as that W-standing even when it looks like I shouldn't. (And my H already said that I made him a better man, so I definitely see the similarities.) Having said all that--she would be my biggest supporter if I kicked him to the curb.

SS is going to have 4 days where he won't have a room at the sober living house. H said he would make sure the house was "clean". The one thing H can't control is the RM. I just got off the phone with the counselor at rehab who really wants SS to look into "couching it" at the sober living house and not take a chance going back to be around RM.

Great-now I feel "guilty" for calling the counselor to find out what the best plan of action is. I know that H sometimes feels mad that his judgement is being questioned..otoh, even he admits to bad choices in the past re SS, so......