Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums We're separated--What Now? Ahhhh, I got kin in that body!

OK... I have been ruminating a lot.

What should I have done differently, over the phone? Or was this inevitable?

I have been thinking about what I would be able to say honestly to him if he confronted me the next time we meet, if it happens. If I choose to participate in some sort of big conversation.

Part of me wants to say, "look, I am amazing. I am beautiful, smart, talented, extremely loving, and hot as hell. I really care about you. But if you don't want to be close to me, what can I do? It's your loss. I have better things to do than wait around for you." Am I becoming embittered? I don't know how to process this. I miss my counselor... really bad right now!!

Another part of me says... "self... take a deep breath... we are experimenting and monitoring results... you tried something really different, and it didn't work, and that's OK. Isn't part of DB that you can screw up sometimes, and that's all right?"

If I continue to be in contact with him... I feel like I should back off and make myself unavailable. But our contact is already so sporadic. How do I pull it off under my circumstances? "Oh, I am in NYC for a week, but I can only see *you* for 15 minutes? Oh, you are busy during those 15 minutes? Too bad, maybe I"ll see you in 6 months?" Stop calling him (once a month)? Not respond to his (four-times-a-year) attempts at reaching out? What am I supposed to do here? I thought I was doing a really good job, and now I feel like I totally blew it. I guess i got some expectations up that he would *want* to see me, and that's why I feel so deflated. Could my expectations be much lower than they are right now? I am trying to be his "friend", who would tell a "friend" what he told me last night, "I wanted to know your expectations for lunch, I want to keep our relationship 'enjoyable' " ?

Hey T,
I am sorry if you felt I was harsh. I didnt mean to. Honestly. I was trying to be honest and give you my explanation of what happened.
I sort of agree with your friend on some points about now, your BFs last actions/discussion. I dont know so much about the past.

You are wondering if you should back off. I'd say that backing off would mean "no contact" and I dont think that no contact would do you any good after a year. No contact and becoming unvailable works in other cases I believe.
It's hard to DB when your BF lives in another city. I dont know what to suggest. I just think you did NOT overdo it. Dont blame yourself for anything... He felt he needed to make a statement and he did...
K

Darling I've read through once. I'm going to post my inital thoughts and then go and back and do another post.

So first of all my thought is

1. What psychologist M said is so normal - typical response. And it might be true. But something in passionate marriage strikes a different chord, and we know that its not just that B's just not that into you. All those questions - I've been through a zillion times in my own head. SO NORMAL! Does it mean anything? I dont know. I know its not truth, because on the surface H and I should have split and never talked about anything ever again, but he was open to some sort of reconciliation.... I think you have gone deeper than what M is suggesting. Dont worry about it too much - I know so hard, it rocks your world again to have to confront painful questions. You have to reprocess everything again....

2. You dont just have the option of backing away. How about this for a plan. Go to NYC and talk about how you are being pursued by other men, but you are too busy for a relationship and enjoying being selfish and single. Now for B not to see right through this you need to adapt it to what's actually happening. You can see him and reassure him that all you want to be is friends.

3. I love the Bitch book. If you have it, do a quick skim read. i know its not the best relationship book ever written. But if you are going to acknowledge that you wanted B more than B wanted you, its only because you didn't make him chase you enough. When you were in the R you did all the work, he wasn't invested in it and he lost interest. No problems. You can be a babe-in-total-control-of-herself.

Darling the other thing to start to see is what K is trying to tell you too. That if B suddenly landed on your doorstep with flower and an engagement ring, and the names picked out for your babies. You would freak out too. And you would want some space. And reconciling a relationship is hard work, and you will wonder if its worth it. I know that you still love him, and I know it hurts so badly. I think K is speaking from the place of 'you wish for something for so long, and when you get it, you wish that you could back and unwish it!'

You will know when you are ready to move on. It may just be that the long distance thing is too hard. It is out of your control though - you cant change that.

But in the meantime. Stick to the goal of the stages
1. Reduce tension - successfully completed, but you may have to revisit it.
2. Friendship - you are in this zone.

Are you OK being friends with him if that's all that if ever amounts to? Is it worth being just friends?

Its true that you cant 'play a game' - he will see through it. But also keep in mind that when you got off the phone you were semi positive about the interaction (remember he called you - you didnt pursue). And its only input from others and your own fears that have caused the nosedive. He doesn't know that at all. He could be feeling really great about talking to you. He sounded like he was looking forward to seeing you in NYC right? He doesnt have to show up if he doesnt want to see you. You arent crying and begging him to take you back. You know that the side you have shown him is the confident lovable side.

My gut feeling is that if you see him NYC, you just need to reassure him that there will be no tension, no big R talk, no emotional outpouring. How do you do that? I cant remember how firm your previous plans were with him for NYC? If they were fairly firm then you should wait as long as possible before contacting him to confirm the time and place etc. If they are unfirm, then just send him an email and tell him the best time for you, if it still suits him, but also leave this as long as possible.

Then if you do see him or talk to him on the phone then just let him know somehow that you are OK being single, not looking for a relationship with anyone at the moment. You can use my line "I just want to have fun, without any pressure". And you can use it because I know its true.

Also the other thing I'm thinking is really important

I think that real love is giving someone the space to be who they really are.

Maybe think about that for a while. And then in your interactions show him love by just letting him be who he is.

Even the bit that you wish you could change about him - the bit that isn't really comfortable in a R with you AT THIS STAGE IN HIS LIFE - can you accept that, and acknowledge that that is who he is?

Tell me how you are feeling today?

What K is saying I agree with - backing off, no contact was never going to help your situation. You stepped up, you didnt get the result you wanted, but you tried. You SO didnt overdo it. Dont question what you did - we all would have done the same. It could have so easily worked.

1. Do you still want to see him in NYC?

2. If you email him the format should be
a) how much fun you had for Christmas and New Years Eve. (I'm thinking you are hanging out with a great bunch of new friends that you can mention)
b) what time suits you best for a meet up in NYC. And how you are looking forward to seeing him
c) 'Thanks for asking me about what my expectations of our friendship are. I just want to have fun, and meet new people and experience new things. I like keeping in contact with you. But I really dont want any pressure on my part or on your part'

Actually Lisa may need to edit this!

And duh! Your dummy friend!

Of course women long for intimacy more than men. I read some relationship book that talked all about how even as babies boys cant handle eye contact for more than a few seconds. Boy babies will fuss if they are stared at - it overstimulates them. Girl babies will be cuddled and coo for hours. B pulling away or being more ambivalent may just be because he cant handle real intimacy. Again thats OK - thats who he is. You just need awareness not to take it so personally.

Weird I've never used the word 'ambivalent' much!

Boys do long for intimacy too. But because true intimacy overstimulates them - send too many hormones through their body. They sort of reduce intimacy to sex. (Is this in the passionate marriage)? And B had a thing with sex hey?

So you get to choose - do I want to wait for someone that is going to pull back from intimacy? Or do I want to look for someone that is more tolerable to intimacy? (knowing that you will know how to hold onto yourself much better in a new relationship, which will influence the outcome). Choice is yours, and clearly there is no wrong or right!

You can't accept that he doesn't want you, because then you will think that you are unlovable

(Is that true? Its a very important question. I think thats what causes me to nose dive too. Cause H's interactions with me make me feel unloved. But then when I'm good at my job, with friends and family who love me, H's opinion of me doesnt matter in the slightest) Its an important question to answer so that you know that you can hold onto yourself.

You also asked some really good questions of yourself T. Im interested in your answers. I think that in a few months it will be useful for you to reread that post and see how your answer will change.

Love you! Thinking of you!

Hello m'lovely!

I am probably going to write a bit of a mammoth post so apologies in advance!!!


I know it is not the ideal thing that you would have liked to hear from him but actually these are quite valid questions. You split up a year ago and told him that you wanted no contact and that you would contact when you were ready. Now, you are making that contact and he is wondering perhaps. It is not so much a negative or positive thing it is just a question, treat it as so.


IMO this kind of backs it up. But you gave him an explanation...


Which was a really good one and he then told you what he wanted.


So how can you make the relationship super-enjoyable so he will not be able to resist your charms? You can do this here.


not all is lost as rl friends have speculated. He did not turn round and say that he never wants to see you again. HE still said he wanted to meet in January. It is these darn expectations T!


I wouldn't tell him how he feels, you are assuming and it may not be that at all!


Excellent! In my opinion leave it now, it doesn't need mentioning again. But more importantly don't let it put you off again. Just learn that if you look like you are making extra special effort (i.e. more than friendship) it may not work at the moment.


You don't need to justify yourself, it makes you look more guilty!


I think that shows he cares regardless of whether it is friendship or bf, it is a good sign.


No, you just did something different and he sat up and noticed which imo is no bad thing.


But wasn't it so good the way you both handled it. He didn't dismiss you but showed you respect and care by wanting to find out more about why you want to see him and don't forget he hasn't dismissed you at this point either.


I'm sorry but I don't think that at all. If he was ambivalent he wouldn't have called he'd have just texted. I just think he doesn't quite know what to think. Show him with your actions. What do you want and act accordingly. Do you want friendship eventually leading to love? Do you want just love? Both of these at some point will involve some sort of rejection, it is how you deal with that rejection that makes you.


I'm sorry, but going on what you have said re your conversations you to are the least incompatible people. You have so much in common and relate to each other soooo well! It's obvious.


You don't need to tell him, show him. You won't have to try very hard - you are!


Yup, and I don't think you screwed up. I think it opened up honesty and dialogue between you. He felt safe enough to ask you about this. Don't you read lots of stories on here where the WAS does not feel safe enough to be so frank/ honest.


Ok, you may not say that to a friend but don't forget, you guys have a history. You are establishing friendship at the moment. I personally would just see how it goes in Jan and work out your next moves after then. No future thinking at this point other than to guide your actions at the next meeting.

(((T)))

Hey T.. .I'm so sorry that the lunch precipitated a bit of a crisis. I think I said, that it seemed a big effort, to do a 4 hour round trip to see him.. so I guess he may have been able to 'smell you' as you put it, and like Kalni said, its ok, he just wanted to put a little boundary there (bit of a brake?)

What I think is really interesting, is that he STILL wants to meet you in January.. lets look at it this way.. you are not very much in contact, so you are not really friends hanging out. So it wouldnt be *that* big a loss to cut contact with you.. and yet.. he DID smell you were wanting to make an effort to see him but he is still ok with meeting in January. I sort of think, if he definetly wasnt interested in you and didnt want to lead you on, he would probablay avoid the January thing, tell you he is busy. Can you see what I mean?

As for the control aspects.. go back and read the Pluto/Moon stuff as that is all about control of emotions, yours and of others and I do think that you maybe have some more lessons to learn there.. like someone said, to really love someone is to let them go and respect their space.

I have known my ex for 13 years and lived with him for 8 1/2 years, he is now not in contact with me and I accept that. Yes it hurts, yes I miss him, yes, why cant he see I am his soulmate? But its not because *I* am not lovable (as your post above muses)... its that one person in 6 billion has decided he doesnt want to share his life with me anymore.

I know Essie and Lisa have great advice and get great results, but I sort of think your ex is an intelligent guy and will 'see through' any attempts to say you are having so much fun being single you are not interested in an R. I just sort of wouldnt go there! He had the bravery to ask a direct question of you, so you wouldnt want to fall into that trap !

I think, ironically, if you really gave up, let go... he might wonder what happened to you.

I am thinking of contacting my ex..a little part of me still loves him.. we were together 4 1/2 years and broke up 14 years ago. Love never dies, but we do seem to need a long time to really reflect and appreciate what we had and lost. I guess you are trying to fasttrack him into noticing and he is a bright guy and has made an attempt to slow it down.

Whether that means its an ending, or just a lets slow down a little here, I cant tell. Like I said, I am intrigued that he sitll wants to see you next time, lucky you! Its better than nothing T, like Essie and Julia say, that IS a positive!! Hugs to you sweetie pie, you are amazing. You are talented, caring, funny, intelligent, gorgeous, dedicated, incredibly thoughtful and unique....

It is his loss, absolutely. As it is my ex's and Lisas and Essies and Julia's...

xxxxxx

((((((((T)))))))))

You are looking for answers where there might not be any. That kinda sucks, but it is the way it is.

Maybe you eat too many vegetables, or wear the wrong color of socks? I don't know.

It seems to me that you have made it clear what you want. And he has made it clear that it is not what he wants. Where do you want to go from there?

That sounds a little harsh, but at this point it seems to be the way it is. I think you did everything right. You got to the point of reestablishing contact, and even friendship. That was a big step. And now, he is even comfortable enough to communicate to you what he does not want. So, again, it comes down to where do you want to go from here?