Hey T.. wow! You called him! Thats great.. I really hope you get to meet him!! I hope you get chance to post and tell us all what happened! And I hope his bushy beard is gone when you see him!
Al xxx
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
I decided not to follow up the conversation yesterday, and he didn't get back to me until about 8 tonight, he sent me a text that said, "can we talk tonight? feel free to call after 9 or something like that." So I did. He asked how my flight was, I told him (I almost missed the plane), and then I asked if he got to go snowshoeing, he said it is too warm, and joked maybe in February... He chatted with me about the christmas concerts he's playing (in detail), I mentioned the ones I was rehearsing for and then got excused from.
After 15-20 minutes of innocuous chatting, he asked me what I was thinking about tomorrow, and I said, "maybe... lunch? or we could go to the children's museum? But you know Portland a lot better than I do."
Basically, he told me that he was wondering what my motives were for coming to Portland, and what my "expectations" were, why I would take a 2 hour bus to have lunch with him. I stayed reallllllllllyyyyyyyyy calm (even thoguh I felt a little bit like I was being cornered, and my heart was pounding) and said, I really was just thinking lunch, or something. I am going all over the place trying to see the people I care about while I am on the east coast, and it is not that big of a deal for me to take a bus to meet someone for lunch (or something like that?) He said his gut reaction was "..." he felt nervous that he needed to prepare for some kind of serious talk. I gently laughed and said, oh, like, some kind of big dramatic confrontation? He said he wanted to "keep our relationship ....enjoyable" (trust me, I was hanging on to his every word at this point. I thought he might say "just friends" or something like that).
I said I was really glad that he was able to tell me what he was feeling instead of doing something that didn't feel right to him, and that I really appreciated that. I said, if this doesn't work for you, that is totally OK with me. It's really up to you. He said he would be seeing me in 2 weeks (is it that soon?) in January, and that he would like to keep it at seeing each other in January. I said that was totally fine, no problem (very calmly). I said, I wondered if you would wonder about me coming to Portland, but I just had this crazy thought and I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. I'm sorry if I made you feel nervousness, dread, confusion, trepidation, bewilderment!!
Then he asked me who I was seeing in Boston and I told him, and mentioned that I am going to a new cello fix-it man and we talked about that. I got the feeling that he maybe just wanted to change the subject so it would end on a less awkward note. I felt like we had entered a very volatile space, and I thought about asking him if he had anything else to say, but I just let him lead the conversation so if he did have something to say, he would have space to say it. So we wrapped up, he said he hoped I enjoyed my trip in Boston, and I told him I hope he enjoyed the rest of his time in Maine. And I said, "i'm sorry if I made you feel weird."
Before he called I thought he was probably procrastinating about getting back to me because he wasn't sure if he wanted to see me. I'm surprised he didn't just text me and tell me he was busy. Maybe he was really struggling with it?
After I got off the phone I wished I had said something like, "Taking a bus for 2 hours from boston to maine, to me, is not that different from taking the commuter rail from NJ to NYC" (which I did in June to meet him for dinner), but it escaped my mind.
I'm not sure that he will feel that I really answered his question about my motives. Can he smell me? After I have played it cool for so long? I tried to validate and assauge his fears that I didn't have any expectations (seriously, at this point, I wasn't even expecting him to RSVP, and I've made other plans, though I didn't say that). But I wasn't about to tell him, "I am coming to portland so I can show you how hot I am, and make you want me, while building our friendship, and hoping to seduce you".
I feel like I may have pushed too far (??) Post-bomb this is the closest we came to some sort of confrontation. But it is positive that he told me what he was thinking/feeling instead of just evading me. With my words and energy I think I made it really clear that it was up to him and that I was OK with whatever he decided.
It's interesting, considering how many opportunities/reasons that I gave him to say no, that he actually told me what he was feeling. And he used the word "relationship".
????????????????????
I had a little talk about B with my friend who I'm staying with. My friend is in his 60s and has a PhD in psychology and is an awesome counselor. My friend told me that I am doing a really good job of giving B lots of space, that it's clear that B feels very comfortable with me and treats me with friendship, and that B is very ambivalent about me. It hurt to hear him say that, and I wonder if what I think is progress is actually me just getting closer to the ambivalence??? I don't know.
So maybe I didn't make the best choice, putting myself out on a limb like that, but I think I handled it really well.
*Sigh*
I am so tired, I am running on 4 hours of sleep!! And covered in dry plane sweat.
I think the phone call was really positive. I'm sorry that it means that you didnt get to see him, but the real positive is that you managed to stay in control. And that he actually had that conversation with you. It was great that he asked you what your intentions were, instead of just saying he was busy.
Really positive. I love your answer too. Dont worry that you didnt make it clear enough. I get the feelings that your actions are showing so much clearer than any words or explanations that you could give him. You arent getting angry / sad when you talk to him, so he will start to trust that you arent out to 'pressure' him back into a relationship. Now if you 'seduce' him back into a relationship thats an entirely different matter
Dont worry at all what your 60 year old male psychologist friend said or didnt say - he is possibly transferring stuff from his normal work, and he isnt there to see you and B's actual interactions. I know it probably hurts. But you will be OK even if B is ambivalent to you! Sheesh thats better than B hating you, or avoiding you. You can turn his world around so that he is chasing you!
OK so back to your actions... B will be wondering if you are trying to pursue him. Dont contact him now till the day before your scheduled meet up in Jan. We will re-visit what your next plan is for that meet up.
You did well. If you are running on 4 hours of sleep you're likely to be getting emotional. Give yourself a break, and look after yourself!
Darling you did really well, and it was excellent that you called him and showed him that you did want to see him. It was the RIGHT (is there such a thing) to do.
He's the dummy that missed out on your fabulous company!
Oh one last thing! You dont ever never need to refer to this lunch at Boston thing again. You dont need to apologise again about it - bring it up and you will make it awkward again. (I'm sure you knew that already though!)
Hi T, just read about the phonecall. First of all you handled it pretty well. I bet it was a big surprise to be asked a direct question as that. Especially since you had no similar talks until now. I dont know though if it is positive that he tried to set boundaries. Because that is what he did. He obviously cares about you but on the other hand wants to make sure you dont have false hopes. He doesnt want to have a role in any false assumption you may be making... He is making sure there is a distance between you that he feels comfortable with. He "wants" nothing more. At least that is how I read it...
T, how long are you willing to wait for this relationship to "get back on track" again? The reason I am asking this is because maybe when you do meet him in January, he may bring it up again, try to explain why he didnt want to meet you etc. You could then have an open discussion. How would you feel about that? K
Thank you for checking in on me. I am feeling a little bit better now, but I had a conversation earlier with my friend M (the 60 year old psychologist) that was really ... devastating???
Basically he said, "I do not want to be harsh and I could be wrong, but I think that B has always been ambivalent about you. Even though you think you resolved & evolved through the initial issues, those were just "flareups" of his ambivalence that has always been there. You did not want to see it, because it didn't match with what you wanted to see. The problem is that you want to be closer to him more than he wants to be closer to him. That has always been the problem between you and it still is the problem, and as long as you want to him back, it will prevent you from reconciling. You totally tipped your hand, he completely knows that you want him, and he was sending a very clear message that he does not want you to come closer and he does not want you to have hope. I don't understand, why do you want someone to be your husband, who doesn't know whether or not he wants to be with you? Why are you doing this to yourself? Why don't you just be friends with him? As long as you are still strategizing, he will be able to smell that, and it will repel him. You can't accept that he doesn't want you, because then you will think that you are unlovable. Why are you doing this? You think he is opening up to you, but it is just easier for him to open up to you when you are not in a couple relationship and you only talk once a month and you are so far away. Is what you're feeling actually love? Or do you just not want to let go?"
I didn't even try to defend myself. I just listened and tried not to cry.
I feel so terrible... part of me wants to refute every point that M made. He isn't in a relationship, and hasn't been in one for a long time, and hasn't ever pulled off a reconciliation, so why should I listen to him? Also, he has met B, but really doesn't know him, so what does he know? He probably just wants to protect me from hurting, etc, etc. Or, maybe B was just facing a custom-made crisis a la Passionate Marriage, and fled, but that's not how most people think about things, including my friend M, who just interprets my situation as "you two are incompatible".
Another part of me is trying to soak up what he said, and it is really devastating. Do I have a pattern of not being able to see when the people who are close to me don't want to give me what I would like to share? When I was in high school I sustained a relationship for 1 1/2 years with someone who WASN:T EVEN INTO ME, and the whole thing was completely fueled by my own fantasy and stubborness. I thought I was so over and beyond that. I really thought I was doing a good job of not being controlling, and now I feel like I totally blew it by trying to push to see him sooner, like I thought I was accelerating the process (DUH, BAD IDEA) and now we have rewound to... before 5 months of NC. I mean, what am I supposed to do now? Not contact him? Do another 5 months of NC?
I was so proud of what I had with B, and I thought he was too. I thought that he really loved me, and wanted to share his life with me. Did he never "choose" me? Would he ever choose me? Is that because I suck to be with, or because (like passionate marriage) he needed to grow up and choose ? Was I completely delusional for those 5 years that I shared with him? Was I totally blinded by my own self-serving desires and insecurities? I thought I had released control... Am I still as controlling as I've ever been?
Luckily I had plans to spend tonight with another friend, T, here in Boston. I told her a little bit about it, and she said, "how can he know? He wasn't there."
((((Essie))) thank you so much for posting to me. I am at such a loss right now. I just spent.... 13 1/2 months trying to reassure him I was innoccous, and now I completely freaked him out with what I thought was a harmless invitation. I don't even know if I should try to see him in January. I sort of feel like if he wants to see me, he should make it happen. Dammit, why doesn't *he* come to see me where *I* am??? I also feel like I blew my shot at actually getting advice for him about my career, now I even wonder if me continuing to bring that up was a form of pressure on him. ??(#$#*($&@????????
((((Kalni)))) I think you probably agree with what my friend M said? I don't think it is positive that he tried to set boundaries with me. Because it means that I pushed him far enough that he needed to push away from me. I don't know how I would handle an open discussion. Even if he said something really hurtful to me, I know I don't have to take it completely at face value.... I've read a couple stories on the boards where the WA says, "there is no way, this is totally over" and then within days they say they want to reconcile.
I don't think he explained to me his feelings because he wanted to get closer, I think he explained them to me because he wants to push me farther away. And how much farther away can I go? I really do not know what to do.
I've been following your thread and just wanted to jump in...
what your friend said may have a lot of truth- but it doesn't mean that it is the truth in your situation! A lot of people are great at dishing out advice, but then you pointed out yourself that he really is quite unsuccessful at any relationships.
I would just regroup and go forward with your plans for January. See where it goes! Sometimes it is darkest before the dawn. And maybe it is darkest before the end too- but you don't know that yet.
I hope your visit brings both you and him clarity in your hearts.
Me-36 H-30 T-7yr, M-3yr DivorceBusting Saved my marriage! sep 6-08 to 12-08. Together again, things are good!
Wow, it is nice to meet you!!! You have been reading my thread??!! that is really sweet. thank you so much for your thoughts... I really appreciate you speaking up!!!!
