Shifu Welcome back...I can see the same Carlos now when you first posted at my sitch. I think your loving detachment is working quite well. You handled your W well, and you DID not let her darkness affect you at all. I still have no idea what will become of my M...but I do know that I can live without the person my W has become...and I do know that I can be very happy on my own and with my kids...Last light The true Carlos has arrived. I am so happy for you with all your PMA. That's so wonderful.
Merry Christmas.....
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
Hi WIT, Thanks so much for swinging by - and for your kind words...celebrating with my kids was just wonderful...I'm already looking forward to our next mini-celebration next Saturday.
NW - Thanks for the welcome back...I hadn't realized just how much I had disappeared until I read your note. I wasn't going to say anything about it, but my W was back to her angry self again last night - this time snipped at me saying, "at least be decent enough to turn around while I'm talking to you." She said this simply because I had turned around to look at a box she had brought over with stuff that she said was mine. I didn't get angry or snip back, just said, "I was listening" - and she continued to be angry....
I just can't be there with her in her anger - I don't want that at all - and it's one of the things I recognize very easily now - just how much I used to be sucked into her anger - and just how much I would take the bait at home on a daily basis - and contribute to making things worse and more tense for us both (and for the kids).
I'm not so much struggling to detach from my W anymore as finding different ways to embrace the space and the distance.
I sent her an email a couple days ago mentioning that I might be moving out of this house at the end of my lease in February - she didn't respond for several days and then finally sent the following:
Hi Carlos,
I actually found the form and will order tickets for you and [S11]. I'm heading up to [PIL's home] from the 21st to the 28th. I don't mind cat sitting for you while you are in Cleveland. I might take the opportunity to clear some more of my stuff out of the garage. I'll bring by the big suitcase tonight for you since I'm sure you will need it for your trip. I haven't had a chance to deal with the car payment yet, or the free credit report charge-- I'll add it to my to do list.
...Sorry to hear you have to move. If you find anything that's mine, please put it to the side and I'll pick it up when I pick up [S2].
Have a nice day,
[W]
This was the longest email I've gotten from her since she moved out - and it even appears to show some compassion - and it's in complete contrast to the person she becomes once we see one another. The tickets she's referring to are to a Christmas pageant at our S2's daycare - I had given her the form last week and she had insisted that I hadn't...
When I read that note again just before posting it here I just sat here and wondered...where is this person when we're in each other's company? I was going to ask her for that suitcase a while ago - but just didn't and I was just going to take care of it myself - so it was a surprise to see her offer to bring it back - and then to actually bring it by last night...but that's the thing...the kindness in this note just vanished by the time she got her last night - and she was harsh, angry and cold once again...which is why I think expectations are poison...if I had expected her to be kind because of her note I would have been disappointed - instead, I just expected nothing - neither positive nor negative - and so I just experienced her anger and tension for what it was...and I did not let her mood define/affect or otherwise determine who I am...I'm done with allowing her anger to control our interactions - I'm finished with naively stumbling into the bitter dynamics she creates and which she expects me to inhabit. I am detached, not only from my W but from the dark emotions that used to envelope us when we were together. Let her darkness be hers until she finds a way to illuminate it...and let me enjoy my life with my kids, my family and my friends.
I'm so pleased w/how you are doing right now. Keep it up. Remember, just when you think you've completely "got it" you let your guard down and backslide. Keep daily reminders of how to act as well as affirmations for yourself around the house.
As always, I'll be here for you to help if I see anything bad going on w/your PMA. Keeping the PMA is the key and you are doing great w/this so far.
Concerning W's e-mail, appreciate the tone, but don't get sucked into it. My XW is nice when she wants something and when I drop my guard and move in close, she attacks and gets ugly. I'm hoping your sitch is different, but be on guard, just in case.
Also, don't react to her asking for her things, but instead welcome her ability to come and get them. Be kind about it, but don't let her see it has any effect on you at all. She wants to see fear and hurt as it will help her feel like she can continue to control you through your love for her. Don't let her see it.
Be strong and keep moving in the direction you are going right now b/c you are doing so very well.
I think being a better man will always be a work in progress, but I think I finally have the tools and the perspective to do it in a better way - and to offer a much better role model to my two boys.
Thanks, Nut...I going to keep that as my guiding perspective for the years ahead.
Rob - once again you've helped me with perspective...letting the guard down would be so very easy - but I've already had her use kindness to get what she wants far too many times.
Thanks especially for your view on her getting her things. I think she does want to see more pain - and she does want to hear my love for her cause me pain...but I'm moving far beyond that now. While it does make me sad to think that it's yet another step in her removal from being my W - it also makes me relieved to think that she will have her life and I will have mine. I don't know if she can ever be healthy enough for me to want to be with her again...not to say that I don't love her - I just no longer confuse loving her with enduring an abusive relationship that she does not want to change.
Journaling....
I had a wonderful day with my S11 - he joined me at a pickup soccer game - and dazzled everyone once again...I kept getting asked how old he was - since he just wasn't intimidated at all by the older people playing (he was the only person under 20). Our team was down 4-0 - then my S11 scored our first goal - and the game ended with a 6-6 tie...a lot of fun.
After the game my S11 and I went out for sushi (I've created a monster) - and on our way there he talked with me about my W - and once again told me that he's really happy with the changes in our life...and with not having her here anymore. He also told me that for the last few months (since before she moved out) he often found himself feeling angry and sad while at my house - and that it even made him not want to come over at times...I told him that I had noticed that in him - and so I asked him how he felt about being with me these days - and he said he's happier than ever - and that he just loves our time together - and the time we have with his baby brother too...he then said something that really surprised me...he said, "I don't think you should ever forgive her for what she did and how she treated you."
Those words left me very surprised...but not sad...so I asked him why he said that - and he said that he noticed how my W would blame me for things that were not my fault - and get angry with me for things that didn't make any sense to him. He also told me how hard it was for him to be around her when she would suddenly make up new rules and enforce them on him - and make him feel like he'd done something wrong - even though he knew he hadn't done anything wrong. He then told me it frustrated him because he always tries to do what he's told and be respectful - but at times he didn't understand why my W would chastise him for just being a kid...
...as I parked my only thought was...I cannot be with her if she will not change...and I had yet another reminder of why detaching from her is not only good for me but necessary...
It sounds like you had a great day. The conversation from S11 was wonderful for you to hear. It is interesting how perceptive they are. S11 gave you a gift tonight. He helped you with another reason to be strong and rebuild your life for you.
Quote:
I don't know if she can ever be healthy enough for me to want to be with her again...not to say that I don't love her - I just no longer confuse loving her with enduring an abusive relationship that she does not want to change.
When I read this, I thought, "Oh, my God! Is he married to my XW?" Our relationships are so very parallel that it is scary sometimes.
Your quote above is what I'm feeling exactly as well. I'll always love her, but I'll never be w/ her in an unhealthy relationship again and I don't know if my XW will ever be able to get healthy either. It makes me sad - just like I know your situation w/ your W makes you sad - b/c I see someone who could be so great, but they don't have the courage, skills, or both to become who we see them as being.
In the end, we are all flawed human beings, and maybe the answer in life is to learn to embrace the flaws we can't fix and learn to fix the ones we can. If we can do that, then maybe we can truly be happy in life.
Carlos First, your new screen name rocks. That just proves you are moving the right direction in your sitch. Happy to hear you have a great time with your S11 (Sushi eating soccer star Ronaldinho/math wiz). That was a great conversation that you all have. As long as your kids are doing better, that's all it really matters. Keep it up, you are doing great.
NW626
Me:33 STBXW:38 S:3 It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you fight the fight....!!
Rob, A lot of my sadness comes from the very same thing - knowing without a doubt that my W could be an amazing person - an incredible person to be with - but also know that she does not want to get any help...and accepting that I just have to let go and move on with my life. My S11 is going to live with me in a year - and will be with me until he goes off to college. I could not imagine having him live with me if my W continued to treat him the way she had been (especially since our baby was born). It's heartbreaking...but I have no choice.
NW - my S11 really is doing better - and I can see it in him...and it makes me so happy. Now I just have to make sure that I can carry my happiness with me even when I'm home alone...
I feel like I'm doing much better these days...and can see that I'm heading in the right direction. I do love my wife - I love her intensely, as a matter of fact - but I cannot be with her...and cannot live with her anger and abusiveness any more...I just don't want it.
I thought about sending her a note like this one: ............................. Dear W:
I understand that you've decided to move on with your life, and I respect your decision. These last few weeks have given me a lot of time to consider where our marriage had gone, and I agree that it just wasn't where we wanted to be. I do not want a divorce from you, W, but I see now that things between us may just be too hard to reconcile.
The last few weeks apart have also given me a lot of time and space to look at myself and my role in our life together and on my own...and there was a lot there that I did not like to see. I have a lot of things to work on in me, and, while it sounds strange to say this, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to examine my life to a degree I just never had before. As hard as it's been to confront the brutal facts of my reality, I know that I had to in order to get healthier and find myself again.
You've been a great friend to me over the years, W, and I want to thank you for that. I also want to let you know that I admire and respect you. You are gifted in so many ways and very few people will ever have the measure of intelligence and imagination that you have. You are a wonderful mother to S2, and I take comfort in knowing that he will be raised in two very loving homes.
I wish the best for you, W, and hope that we might regain enough of our friendship to offer our S2 a healthy, fulfilling childhood.
Hm...just got off the phone with my sister and she thinks I should hold off on sending this note - or saying anything until after the holidays...not with the hope of anything changing - just because based on how my W has been in the past - my sending her something like this now might push her into a new kind of anger...and there will already be plenty of emotions going around and around without adding this note to the mix...so...I think it's good advice and will hold off...and will also keep thinking about what I want to say...
Here's where I am right now: I love my wife. I am detached. I cannot be with the person she has become. I am focusing on my children. I am working harder. I am looking for more work. I am sad at times - but not devastated - and not feeling hopeless - since my sense of hope is no longer tied in to my W and my M. I miss what we used to do over the holidays...especially since I show my love by giving gifts...but I am realizing that in detaching I am giving my Wife a gift of unconditional love - the very type of love she thinks I cannot give. I'm sleepy.
I'd wait on the note too. It will be good for you to bring closure, but I'm not sure now is the time. I'll continue to think about it some more.
Your list is good and your priorities are in order, my friend. Keep going.
As I have learned, it is ok to love some one and always feel that love for them. However, it isn't healthy to be w/one who can't give in a healthy way, so in the end, you'll love them, but not be in love w/them.
It is the cause of my saddness, but it is the reality I'm faced w/so I'm moving forward.
Life is disappointing at times, for sure, but there must be reasons for our sadness. We always seem to learn the most when things are at their worst, so if we pay attention, take good notes, and study, we should come out well ahead and much sooner than we could have ever expected.
