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dw,

Thank you for your feedback! I probably should have mentioned somewhere that she dropped the bomb only last week, so it might be too early to say whether or not I am making any progress with her.
I have thought about your comments about my goals. I understand it sounds like I want her to do things, but that is not the case. The way I understand DR achieving the goals will be the result of my actions. So if I changed the goals to make them goals for me, they would sound like:

1. I will not get angry when I talk to her.
2. I will make time to spend with my kids.
3. I will stay calm when she criticizes me.
4. I will show interest in anything related to the kids.
5. I will act happily when she is around.
6. I will continue working out and staying in shape.

I was not sure how to change the last original one into a goal for me, but that is a goal I need to accomplish somehow sooner of later, if the marriage is to be saved. Anyway, I replaced it with a truly personal goal.
The only problem I see with those goals is that they might not - as you said - get me the results I want. For example, my calmness and my oblivion to her participating in the MC was received as cold-heartedness. So what I wrote in this post is what I plan to experiment with, but I may have to change strategy if I do not accomplish what I listed as my goals in the previous post.

AN

Hi AN,

One of my favorite quotes from DR book: 'Do you want to be right or do you want to be married'?

Now, of course, you can take this too far. You deserve to be treated decently. Some disgruntled spouses get into a mode where they try to treat the LBS like a doormat. I'm not encouraging that! But, yes, you might need to overlook some of her issues for the sake of the M.

Hi AN,

I think those are all great things to do. But I'm not sure they fully qualify as DBing goals. Like the book says: "What will be the very first thing...". They should be measurable.

So perhaps one goal could be something like:

"Wife will get up and leave the computer (just once) when the kids need something."

So I think you need both lists. One list is things <you> are going to do. And the second list is little, tiny changes you will see in your wife which will help you monitor her reactions (if any) to your changes.

FYI... I think Beth has been giving you excellent advice. Keep it up Beth! You are quickly becoming a Jedi-master of DB'ing!

AN,

Techguy has been a great help to me throughout my process and he is giving you solid advice. (Techguy - thanks for the Jedi compliment!)

I would also recommend that you re-read the book. On my second reading, I found that I had missed a lot because I was very emotional and desperate to "save my M right now!" when I read it the first time.

Subsequent readings have also helped me refine my goals and learn to recognize positive signs from H where I had been overlooking them.

Beth

techguy,

A big thank you to you as well! I think I ended up in a great place with lots of people who are capable of empathizing.

You are right about the blaming part. It is very hard, especially since she keeps blaming me for the situation. So far I have been able to stick to my plan and I hope I will be emotionally able to keep doing it.

What do you suggest for Monday's MC session? I am currently thinking of letting her talk as much as possible, but at some point I need to tell my version of the story as well. I guess it depends on the C, maybe she is able to ask her the right questions.

Thanks again for the great support. I know I am in the right place.

AN

Learn how to validate... then validate your ass off in the MC session.

I never knew how to validate, and it cost me dearly in my old relationship. Everytime wife is upset and wrong... your first reaction should be: validate!

I could never bring myself to validate in these situations. I would always fall into a mode where I would start debating her and trying to 'educate' her why she was wrong. Big Mistake!

Validating doesn't mean you are agreeing with her. It's just a way to show empathy for her feelings.

So, for example, suppose she starts accusing you of being a bad dad. You don't agree at all with that. You're validation is to say: 'I understand how important the kids are to you. I know you just want the best for them', etc... Then agree that they are important to you as well. So you are really just finding common ground and telling her that you understand her feelings. But you never agree that you are a bad dad.

Yes, listening is good as well. Spend 50% of your time listening, 40% validating and then 10% mentioning your side of the story (less if you can tolerate it). You'll be amazed how well it goes!

Just remember... from the last resort technique section of DR: when things are super-bad (i.e. spouse is seeking divorce), you simply don't have the leverage to bring up your grievances. You spouse simply won't tolerate it at this point. So your only choice for now is to swallow your pride and suppress any of your grievances.

You can come back to your issues later... for now you must just deal with your wife's concerns.

techguy,

Thank you for your reminder. I am going through this in my mind a thousand times and will read your post again and again before Monday. I feel like I know exactly what to say and what to do, but when she throws all these accusations at me, it is so hard to do. I am also afraid of overdoing it. When she told me about the "e-mail friendship" yesterday, I tried to stay calm and told her how disappointed and sad I was. Instead of a tiny piece of empathy, she just jumped at me and yelled "You are smiling, because now you can blame me for everything again." I swear I was not smiling, all I was thinking how can I stop myself from yelling at her something like "Don't you see that you are surrounding yourself with people that keep telling you that I am bad man. How can you believe that a guy who probably failed at marriage himself is going to do any better with you? Just because he finds a few words now?" I wanted to ask her "Did he run away just like you? Well, good luck then!" Fortunately, the words got stuck in my mouth. And I probably killed this guy a hundred times last night...

On the positive side, I have spent many hours with my kids last night and this morning already. I dance with my daughter, I play Crazy Bones with my son, it feels so good, but it also makes me sad and angry at the same time, because I blame her for wanting to destroy all this. I know I have to stop blaming her, but I am not quite there yet. At least, so far I have kept my emotions under control while she is present. And that is a small accomplishment that I can live on.

I had another weird thought when I went through some of the threads here last night. I thought everybody here is going through more or less the same dealing with their WAS. Why don't we just all pair up and screw our WAS? I guess the answer is that we are different. We are not WAS, we are LBS and probably would have never thought of simply walking away in the first place.

Thanks to everybody for your support.

AN

Hi AN,

I actually spend quite a bit of time studing Eastern Philosophy (Buddhist stuff). They have a saying: 'If you can practice even when distracted, you are well trained'. Buddhist philospohy is all about self-control... but when people start throwing stuff at you it is hard. You do tend to forget your logical plan and your adreniline kicks in...

I also agree that you have to be carefull not to overdo it. Disgruntled spouses are especially good at sensing BS from you. In fact, they will even invent BS (like when your wife thought you were smiling). But... you can <never> overdo listening! If your validating isn't going well, then switch to more listening.

I understand all the things you wanted to yell back at her about OM. But, unfortunately, nothing you can say at this point will change her opinions one bit. That's the essence of DBing... don't use words. Avoid R talk. Improve yourself and let your actions speak for themselves.

Come here to the board to vent... just like you did.

Hi Beth,

I have been reading up on your situation, certainly different, but somehow the same. You have been doing great. You are very strong, even though you may not think of yourself that way all the time. BTW, if you need to know anything about running, I can help you out. I had planned a marathon for tomorrow, but had to cancel due to an injury. I am not sure I would have had the mental strength and endurance for the race right now, but the injury held me back anyway. I do want to do a very easy few miles tomorrow to see how the injury feels.

My day has been almost entirely positive. No R talk whatsoever, and I can see that her brain is working on this. She gave me a few looks today as though she was asking why I was not doing what she expected me to do (to beg, to talk R, to bash OM etc). I just kept quiet and spent the entire day with the kids. I bought a couple of books for them. They wanted to buy their mom a Christmas present. Even though it hurt, I of course helped them with a few ideas. Then I bought a new computer mouse, because hers broke during the week and she simply took mine from my work laptop. I am sure she expected me to blow up about this, but again nothing.
Just a little venting. She tried to install it herself and did not recognize the connector right away. So she said reproachfully "it does not fit". That she never said thank you goes without saying. She has that twisted way of thinking that this was what I had to do, if I wanted mine back. Well, I helped anyway without showing any emotion at all (at least I think I was pretty successful at that).
The other little change I have noticed. When I started getting the kids ready for bed, she was there right from the beginning. Usually she shows up when they are pretty much ready for the bedtime story. Maybe she is afraid of getting detached from them, because she really does not care what they are doing during the day when I am home.
Maybe I am reading too much into this, but I feel she loses her coolness just a little bit and gets a little nervous, because I am different than she expected me to be. I am sure the setback will come, but right now I feel quite upbeat.

Techguy, thank you for your input as well. I feel like I am learning a lot, and your comments are truly appreciated. I like what you said about self-control. I actually practice that particularly with my kids. My W keeps yelling at them even though she just went through a parenting seminar. I used to do that, too, even though by far not as often. I have been able to stop that completely, and it has already changed their behavior towards me. If this is the only thing I am getting out of this, then I am already a better father.

I am thinking of a few more questions about the MC session, but it is late and I am getting tired. So that will have to wait until tomorrow.

AN

I'll stop by tommorrow, AN. Try to get as much sleep as possible. Sleep can be very healing.