Good points...I think the word "transparent" is tricky however. I know what you're saying. But she has to feel very very very safe to feel like she can be transparent. No one is really transparent, we all protect some part of ourselves. I guess that word kind of connotes "exposed" to me. But that's just me.
I only meant in the context of a no-contact/transparency plan -- not everything in her life. H4U needs to know, for example, that she's not IMing him at work every day, or she'll never fully get over the guy and be open to H4U emotionally.
Good points...I think the word "transparent" is tricky however. I know what you're saying. But she has to feel very very very safe to feel like she can be transparent. No one is really transparent, we all protect some part of ourselves. I guess that word kind of connotes "exposed" to me. But that's just me.
And my W connects transparency with "controlling."
Good points...I think the word "transparent" is tricky however. I know what you're saying. But she has to feel very very very safe to feel like she can be transparent. No one is really transparent, we all protect some part of ourselves. I guess that word kind of connotes "exposed" to me. But that's just me.
I only meant in the context of a no-contact/transparency plan -- not everything in her life. H4U needs to know, for example, that she's not IMing him at work every day, or she'll never fully get over the guy and be open to H4U emotionally.
Oh, right. I knew you meant it that way. I was just cautioning maybe using that particular word with her, because it might make her feel panicky. Unfortunately for those of us in these situations, where our feelings are all raw (both sides), and so much is at stake, every word counts as we work towards what we want. I look forward to days when it doesn't so much!
Thanks All. Let me see if I can respond to each of you.
Puppy, I'm not going to push any of this until she is ready. I told her a couple months ago I wouldn't bring the A up again until she was ready to talk about it. It has to happen sometime, but until she's ready or I've had enough, I'll give her the time she needs.
Break, I KNOW OM must have some irrestible qualities that makes him attractive to women. I get that. He must if my W (and his other A partners) knows he's married and my W KNEW a couple days after starting work here that he was always fishin. And I can see what you mean about a "ladies man" picking her. It probably was the biggest form of flattery for a MLC approaching woman. And I guarantee he's great at manipulating hurting women. His W told me that "he knows all the right things to say". That's why it took her 4 affairs of his before she finally is divorcing him. After his last one prior to my W, OMW was ready to divorce him and he played the "I'm weak, please don't leave me", etc game and she gave him another chance. 2 years later my W comes along and falls for it. And who knows if there were others in between. OM and his W live 1000 miles apart. He is a contractor that moves from Refinery to Refinery every couple years or so, so I'm guessing he has one in every port.
WDID, I get what you're saying, but I'm afraid if I don't get the things I need to heal that things may be ok in the future from my W's point of view, but if I don't get what I need then I see this festering until I finally explode or god forbid, do something I shouldn't do because I'm exposed to a woman who gives me what I need. I can say I'd never go there, but I'm sure you and a whole lot of other people never thought they'd go there either. I'm mostly over my anger other than this lingering question of "How the F could you fall for that?" I can handle my part in it. She's already told me the things I was doing that bugged her. I don't think they warranted an affair to get my attention, but I can see how they contributed. I was traveling for work a LOT in the year and a half prior to the A starting. And when I would come home I'm sure I missed how lonely she was by me being gone and along comes someone who knows what to say and the rest is history.
Break again, I think Pup is meaning Transparent in not hiding her cell phone, doing what she says and going where she says she is while telling me the TRUTH about it, doing what ever she can to prove to me she's not talking to the a-hole while she's at work. One thing she could do that would be huge is when my possible transfer comes in the spring, be understanding with me about all of us moving. She likes it where we are but theres a possibility that OM may move back here to work at the Refinery W works at in a year or so and if she understands what that would do to me/us then it would go a long way towards me feeling like she get's it. And I don't think there can be true intimacy if one spouse or the other 'hides' stuff from their spouse. On a good note, I see my W doing her best to be transparent with me. And it helps. She still hides stuff which I think is her quest to be independent, but somehow we need to be able to get her to understand that just because she's married and shares everything with me doesn't mean she's not independent.
MC, I think my W thinks the same way. If I ask where she is going or where she was she feels like I'm controlling what she's doing. Perfect example. One time in the middle of her affair (before I knew for sure it was going on) I told her it would make me uncomfortable if she went out after work with OM only. I didn't have a problem if it was a group thing, but if everyone left except OM I would expect her to leave also because I think it's inappropriate for married men and women to have drinks like that alone. She said she hated how controlling I was because there was noting going on and she could be friends with a man if she wanted to. Now I know that was probably just the affair talking, but it's one of her gaslighting tactics to get me to back off.
Thanks again everyone. You've reinforced what I already know needs to be done. And that's more TIME until she's ready. And like WDID says, I suspect when the flood gates do open, it'll be a biblical flood.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
MC, I think my W thinks the same way. If I ask where she is going or where she was she feels like I'm controlling what she's doing. Perfect example. One time in the middle of her affair (before I knew for sure it was going on) I told her it would make me uncomfortable if she went out after work with OM only. I didn't have a problem if it was a group thing, but if everyone left except OM I would expect her to leave also because I think it's inappropriate for married men and women to have drinks like that alone. She said she hated how controlling I was because there was noting going on and she could be friends with a man if she wanted to. Now I know that was probably just the affair talking, but it's one of her gaslighting tactics to get me to back off.
CONTROLLING: "I forbid you to go have drinks, alone, with another man who's not your husband."
BOUNDARY: "Based on what's happened already, I can no longer be comfortable in a marriage where my wife has already had an affair, lied to me about it, and now think it's okay to go have drinks, alone, with a man who's not your husband. I don't trust you right now, and I hope you can understand that and will help me with this."
It's not "controlling" to share honestly with your spouse what you need in order to remain in the marriage. What they then decide to DO with that knowledge, is completely up to them. So long as they know what THEY do, will affect what YOU do.
Puppy, I'm not going to push any of this until she is ready. I told her a couple months ago I wouldn't bring the A up again until she was ready to talk about it. It has to happen sometime, but until she's ready or I've had enough, I'll give her the time she needs.
H4U,
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to INITIATE this conversation; I'm just saying that when you DO have it, I do think that 100% no-contact and transparency needs to be a condition of the reconciliation, or it should be a dealbreaker. At least it would be (and it indeed was) to me.
I'm just saying that until she IS ready to talk about this stuff, don't send off the vibe that it's going to take "A,B,C,D, and all the way up to L or even Z" to make your marriage work.
I agree Pup. But she hasn't done any of this since OM left town and since I told the kids. In fact, after the first week in Dec last year, I'm virtually certain she hasn't seen him. The couple times it was possible back in Jan/Feb/Mar she was giddy before I left town and then PISSED when I got back so I'm pretty sure OM didn't show up like she wanted him to. Plus, why spend $200 on gas driving up here when he's got a new GF in the town he lives in now?
I do think she's doing her best to be transparent with me. When we're sitting there at night and she gets a text she'll tell me who it was and what they were talking about. When she's made plans to do something like dinner with a GF or shopping she's not gone long and either returns with leftovers or items she's purchased. She tells me all about her day, tells me who she talked to etc all without my asking, so I think she's doing her best to reassure me.
But I'll remember this if the situation ever comes up in the future.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
Puppy, I'm not going to push any of this until she is ready. I told her a couple months ago I wouldn't bring the A up again until she was ready to talk about it. It has to happen sometime, but until she's ready or I've had enough, I'll give her the time she needs.
H4U,
Perhaps you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to INITIATE this conversation; I'm just saying that when you DO have it, I do think that 100% no-contact and transparency needs to be a condition of the reconciliation, or it should be a dealbreaker. At least it would be (and it indeed was) to me.
I'm just saying that until she IS ready to talk about this stuff, don't send off the vibe that it's going to take "A,B,C,D, and all the way up to L or even Z" to make your marriage work.
Put more simply: YOU DON'T WANT TO "SPOOK" HER.
I get ya. I truly believe that once she makes the commitment to be with me that no contact won't be a problem. Like Breakaway has said on her thread, once you figure it out, the contact just doesn't seem necessary (I think that's what I read on her thread). Now her committing may be a problem until she's NC, but I'll say again, I just don't know what to believe whether she's NC or not. I know you and WDID think there's still contact. And you could be right. A big part of me thinks so. But I also think it's platonic in her mind. It's a problem if that's so and that's where I was going in my statement that I'm going to give her all the time she needs to figure it out until I can't give anymore. And if I look at it, the way she's been the last couple months makes me think she is NC but has the occasional trigger that sets her back. I just see us making more and more progress and if that's going on, then I see whatever contact there still might be going away.
Maybe I'm just a fool. But right now, until she's ready to talk and commit, I just have to act "as if" she's not talking to OM.
Hope4us
Me - 49, W 49 S22 & S18 Dday 9/4/07 W claims NC 4/7/08 8/29/09 - Divorce Busted. Lots to work through, but we're going to make it.
I know you and WDID think there's still contact. And you could be right. A big part of me thinks so. But I also think it's platonic in her mind. It's a problem if that's so and that's where I was going in my statement that I'm going to give her all the time she needs to figure it out until I can't give anymore. And if I look at it, the way she's been the last couple months makes me think she is NC but has the occasional trigger that sets her back. I just see us making more and more progress and if that's going on, then I see whatever contact there still might be going away.
Maybe I'm just a fool. But right now, until she's ready to talk and commit, I just have to act "as if" she's not talking to OM.
Look at it this way...worst case scenario, she has "some" contact. It's possible that she does have triggers that set her back on occasion. You are being smart by giving her time to figure it out. If she "slips" she probably feels like an idiot...in fact I'd be sure of it.
What's in your favor is that this guy is a horse's ass. He can do nothing but disappoint her anyway! SO, even the worst case scenario will help you...as you become a better H, and this guy will slowly reveal himself to be who he really is...maybe some occasional contact will include some 2x4's.
She will have her own days of How the F could I fall for that? Pleasant feeling....not.
