Please allow me to cut-and-paste from another board what I spent a good part of the day typing.
Post #1 Dear Soon-to-be Friends,
I need all of the help and advice I can get. Let me start with a simple summary:
> Met: Labor Day, 1978, first day of college for both. > Age difference: less than 2 months > Friends very quickly > Dating: February 1979 > Serious: May 1979 > Married: June 1981, graduation week > Her career: off to med school, then residency, then private practice > His career: IT Management to pay for med school > Income ratio: 56% (hers) to 46% (mine) > First Son born: March 1987 > Second Son born: September 1990 > Never slept a night apart mad in 30 years until last month. > Initial argument/separation: Sept 4 > First big problem: Sept 19, she called the Sheriff to report that she felt threatened by my return. > Second big problem: Sept 21, she called the Sheriff again to report that I was harassing her (I was.). During the incident my heart rate went too high (I have endocrine cancer). I was taken by squad to the hospital. She cut off all support and contact with my entering the squad. > Domestic Violence Protection Order (which she now admits was a lie calculated to win the possession of the house): Sept. 23 > Divorce Filing: Sept. 24 > Checking account empty: Sept 25 > My release from hospital: Sept 25 > She continues to act very hostile, canceling joint accounts, changing my address, not letting me get to my medications still in the house, and worse.
--How do I reconcile?
I first fear that she's had a mental breakdown. Second I fear that I'm as blind as a man could be. How could I have missed the warning signs? What should I have seen? I have to put away the anger fast if I hope to save this wonderful marriage of 27 years to an amazing wife. I've asked my doctor to schedule time with a professional, but it's going to be weeks yet. I knew that putting the anger away is a "band-aid" until I can resolve it. (As an aside, I have something called the "Hitler test" (Godwin in 1 post!). If in 1945, you were in front of Hitler as he collapsed and you had information that might save his life in the ER would you get in the squad? I find that most everyone answers positively. But my wife didn't, so to her... I'm worse than Hitler, and as far as I know I've never started a world war.)
Here's what I believe she's told me the problem is (Remember since the squad run I've not seen or heard from her.)... > I'm difficult to get along with (that's true. I have cancer pain and effects.) > I've squandered her wealth on a business I started in January. (The business can move over $5K/day in revenue, but has $125K of debt. We make > $270K/year. The book value of the business (before debt) is $141K. I will probably always want to have debt vice stockholders, so that the family can retain control.) > I refuse to see that she can't handle the $175K total consumer debt.
Now here's the environment. The Magistrate has ordered me not to contact my wife in any way. I want so much to say that I'm sorry and that I'll work hard to fix what is wrong with me. Her therapist recently provided her with the mantra something like: "I would prefer that all communications from my ex-husband come through my lawyer. Thank you." She actually said that with obvious script-reading to my elder son. He was at the time telling her what I'd said to him about reconciling.
To answer some expected questions:
> Have either of you had affairs: no. > Have either of you been physically violent with the other: not in a long time > Do either of you have a history of mental illness: I suffer from dementia and emotional problems from the cancer; otherwise, no. > Do either of you have a history of violence: no > Does she still love you: Yes. She told my son that last week > Do you still love her: adamantly > Is there a third person that she respects that can get your feeling across to her: My elder son was the best, last hope. She is really disconnected from others. > How are the proceedings proceeding: We agreed to modify the protection order this week. We don't have much to argue about. We might have an agreement in principle as early as Friday.
If anyone wants, I will gladly type up the entire history. I hope though from what I see here in other threads that this post is a good start.
Please help me. Thanks, Frank
Post #2 Let me take the questions one-by-one who is she hanging out with? Me. We're best friends and love to do everything together. We don't even go with other couples as a rule. Since the separation, she's hardly left the house (I hear.)
Who does she work with? Her office is all female (no hints of bi-sexual interests), other doctors, nurses, assistants. Her work calendar is always booked. Her days off scheduled months in advance. I also have full transparency to cell phone bills and all finances.
There is one new person on the scene, her therapist. I don't expect a typical affair, but I'm starting to believe that he's a cult-like advocate for battered women. Perhaps it's not sexual, but just controlling. I know that they had to deal with her past and possible abuse. I wonder if he accidentally caused a transference to the present. (Just to be clear, I absolutely am not physically abusive. I'm worried though that with my cancer I might have been so rough verbally at times to be abusive.)
I can positively state, with typical male pride, that cuddling, intimacy, sex, and other quality time are all still here. For example, on a lazy Sunday morning recently, after she had a stressful week I spent three hours just massaging her while she dozed off and on. I regularly brush her long beautiful hair for her. (No snickering, guys.) We still stroke each other casually as we move by each other around the house. Sex for her is outstanding. She teetered about the house one Saturday morning late August, giggling for no apparent reason.
I called every common friend today to ask what I needed to improve, and whether they still saw the love between us. Without exception, they commented on W's clear affection and happiness. One said that during my hospital stay W told her that I needed to see a therapist. (Mr. doctor is scheduling an appointment now.) I can say without reservation that during the heat of the arguments in September, I was the worst jerk. I wrote two horribly harassing emails, trying to force her to recant officially lies to the Sheriff. I've heard from the elder son that she admits staging the 'events' to get the protection order, at least to some extent. Obviously, she was planning this for some time, possibly weeks. (She changed the mailing address to her work address on my life insurance policies in early September.)
Regarding the September argument: Long Answer: I started a business in January. It's accumulated $141K of assets and $125K of consumer debt. I, trying to earn some points for the Pearly Gates that the cancer is bringing me to all too early, treat it more as a way to pass on my knowledge to ex-felons, divorced moms trying to learn and earn, and marginal high school students. We should be profitable this year even with the current environment. She is convinced that I don't care about her feelings about the debt. In way that's true: I know that a start-up with positive book value after 9 months is not in trouble. We're getting a return well above our cost of capital. She cannot handle the debt or ask to shut down the business.
Now I tried to convince her that the business as an LLC could not bankrupt her. I failed. So I asked to see an independent lawyer. (I fear that the therapist set the stage.) He told her that I was a "scoundrel" (her word) by not co-signing a student loan, and having her do so. I saw that the loan had a clause causing default should the co-signer die, so being short for the planet, I encouraged her to sign. She implied my encouragement was a prelude to horrible action on my part.
Short answer: control of money
Well, that all for now. (Thanks again for asking. Each time I answer the red-hot ball of anger loses just a little bit of its power over me.)
Frank. Post #3 Goodness, you all have put a lot of effort into this thread. Thanks.
----, Sorry for the confusion. Just ----- is correct. The Domestic Violence Protection Order was filed on Tuesday after the Sunday ambulance run. I haven't seen my W or heard from her by any manner since I left in the squad. My elder says that she keeps referring to some authority figure as saying that she's not allowed to contact me, even though the words on the order clearly state only that I can't contact her, even indirectly.
Gold Star ----. We've always had trouble when it came to loans, but reason and need prevailed every time up to now. The abuser (still suppressed) may be her birth father (or his brother). He happens to live in the same town now that she work. He dropped off a Christmas card last year with a note asking to talk. She did not reply and was anxious over it. This summer her birth half-brother, an IRS Agent, used his credentials to get by her office's front desk to see. He invited her to her birth father's 80th birthday party. She was also very insecure. When I harassed her, the squad run day, by email, I included (without honor) a threat to expose these secrets. (Yes, I'm a jerk.) I do know that she and her therapist have worked on these issues.
Carcinoid Syndrome is the overgrowth of endocrine cells. The cancer cells binds with the body's statins, preventing the proper signaling to end or decrease an emotion, mood, or state. For example, today I am unable to sleep. I've been up over 30 hours and have no hope without the heavy-duty medications I keep in reserve. At First big problem (Sep 19, Friday) I had been up over 40 hours.
The dementia is more subtle. I can't reason, do arithmetic as well as I used to. I'm just about the "demented" diagnosis coming from a mid-level executive position at a Fortune 50.
I suffer from hours of debilitating anxiety, uncontrolled euphoria (By far the worst. I give too much away or buy too much, unless my assistant or W stops me.)
The pain is a constant distraction and annoyance. The cancer causes nerve bundles to grow and areas, particularly soft tissues like gums, hurt like a hot poker was on them, at times. The worst happens only once every two or three days.
Yes, the violence answer needs clarifying. Not in a long time, would be over ten years. No bruising or scraps in 20.
The $175K includes the business's $125K. ($141K are the business's offsetting assets.) They would be two separate if the LLC acquired the debt vice W and I on our own. Our personal consumer debt is a payable of the LLC to us. (All that said, since the LLC is a sole proprietorship, except for liability and a tax option, there isn't much of a difference.) (May I please point out an oddity. Her lawyer Friday asked us to take the business and its debt. That can only mean that she doesn't like to be associated with its risk or that she doesn't agree with the books, right?)
I had a daily full accounting of all account (credit or debit; mine, hers, or joint) until we elected to hide her accounts from me.
We have a first and second mortgage on a home that has survived any drop in value (yet). I don't how she'll re-fi the house in this market. I checked with my broker about making an acquisition of another company Friday. There was no money to be lent in the entire state.
There are car loans. No student loans.
Offsetting those... Close to a million in IRA, 401(k), etc. (Well, at least until the recent turmoil) I carry $900K in life insurance. She carries $100K. There's a lot of titled vehicles around too. My last account for myself showed 12, each worth $1K to $8K.
So wanting to reconcile, but I don't even know the reason for the divorce petition ------------end of posts....
I have ordered both of the relevant books (The Divorce Remedy and Divorce Busting) and a Divorce Busting Telephone Coaching - Single Session.
Welcome to divorcebusting.com! You have a complicated situation, but I'm glad you found us.
I'm really sorry to hear about your cancer and the complications that have come with that. You have way more than your share to deal with.
I am a little confused over the sequence of events in your posts...I think you are saying the order of protection was THIS past september, but it is unfounded...her claims of domestic violence or fear of that is just a ploy?
So you've been ordered not to make contact with your wife....there is a technique in Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy called The Last Resort Technique (search that on this site) ... follow that until you talk with your Coach.
btw---When will your coaching session take place?
Take heart.....it isn't hopeless. And take really good care of yourself. I imagine you try to maximize your good days.
I will keep you in my prayers.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
Thanks to everyone who read and especially sgctxok for the first reply.
I'm just off the phone with my coach. Great time.
Yes, it was this September. Yes, she freely admits either lying (the threats) or not really ever wanting to talk about that again (child abuse). We even heard, "I never was sure about the abuse anyway."
The coach helped me improve upon a one-page agreement requiring me to go to individual counseling and allowing her to schedule joint. We'll also going to ask for 30 days before moving on with the D.
I'll have my lawyer turn it over to hers tomorrow.
Here's the "agreement" that I just sent to my lawyer. Wish me luck...
Pam,
{21-year-son} tells me that you can’t have any contact with me, that you can’t call or write, and that you insist that all contact from me go through your lawyer. I must admit that I’m a little uncomfortable with so many people reading about our personal issues, but I’m going to do my best here.
I hope that we can work something out to allow you to communicate with me in a way with which you’re comfortable. Please feel free to have your lawyer draft an agreement to ensure your comfort. Mr. Calamunci and I believe that you can initiate any contact you’d like. I suggest that you determine the topics, duration, time, and method of each contact. Except for the usual etiquette of returning your calls only when you so ask, I won’t do anything to contact you.
There are several topics that I offer about which we should talk.
I think we need to discuss the interim process in paying bills, for example. I believe that we both need to know about what bills are due when, which one of us will pay it, and be able to verify that the bill was paid. I have the latest {credit card company} Cards, for example. I’d like to get them to you and let you know that you don’t need to declare them lost again. (I infer that you wish to curtail my use of any joint account.) While I’m maintaining my own “residence”, there are probably some bills for {street} that you’d like me to stand up to. I did notice that the {life insurance company} debit was going to bounce, so I paid it. May I infer that you’d like to forgo this insurance? From my side, I’m concerned about the {college} refund and the recent withdrawals against the {joint bank} second mortgage. I just need to know that you have the refund (that it’s not lost or delayed) and that you did authorize the withdrawals (I didn’t.). Would you call me please to discuss these mundane issues?
I am curious about {18-year-son}. I hope his studies are going well. Would you update me on his progress please?
I am concerned about {21-year-son}. He is falling behind in his studies. His sleep hygiene seems to have deteriorated. I have tried reassuring him, but he frets about us and you. From my side, I’m trying to find ways to lighten his load like doing his laundry with mine. I also reassure him that everything possible to minimize the harm to him, indeed to everyone, is being done. May I suggest that you continue with your reassurances too?
I am unable to deal directly with {18-year-son}, as you know. I am gravely concerned about his flights of fancy and his serving alcohol at his parties. I also understand that he is having trouble sleeping for fear of me. I am worried about the amount of time he’s pending away from campus too. I hope that we can talk about the best means to approach this and consider working together as mother and father.
I would also like to ask a personal favor. Would you help me a little with my personal therapy? I’ve asked Dr. {joint doctor} for a referral, but scheduling is a problem as you know. In the interim, I’m using the internet and the phone to work with licensed professional from outside {our state}. I’m at a loss to list the major areas that I need to improve upon. I did ask Dr. {joint doctor} for help here but got nowhere. I’m going to continue to work on dealing with and managing my anger in the meanwhile. I really would appreciate your brief support. Would you tell me what I should say to the therapist about my problem as you see it?
In many ways, I’ve dealt with the separation well and now don’t feel angry about it or anything that led to it. I don’t want you to feel like there’s anything you need to apologize for, as there isn’t. If you ever want to talk about what I would do differently should time give me a second chance, please let me know. (But do plan on a significant amount of time as I have so much to apologize for.) Would you consider that sometime?
I want you to know that the door remains open to any outcome you’d like, a black-letter law divorce, a trial separation, or even reconciliation. I hope that whatever you choose you’ll be happy. I do ask that you consider a joint counseling session before moving on to the separation agreement and its details. I fear that we each have reasons for our positions and that the other would respect them; however, by the time Greg and Tony are involved it’s just a legal matter and all of our promises to each other are lost. I suggest that we sit down together with a counselor and discuss the issues you’d like. Would you please schedule a joint counseling session for us?
Dr. {cancer doctor} has questioned my diagnosis. She believes that I may have a VIPoma. I have CAT scan, an MRI, and blood work tomorrow. Would you wish me luck?
My mother fell while covering their greenhouse. The plastic sheeting comes off with the spring and back on in the fall. She broke her arm pretty badly. She was to find out whether she needs surgery today. She would probably appreciate a phone call from {18-year-son}. Would you let him know about the accident and prompt him to call please?
{21-year-son} did tell me that you told him that you still love me. So let me close in kind with…
Well, I think I'm starting to understand. While waiting on DR and DB arrive to arrive, I picked up Susan Page's _How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together_. I didn't have to look very hard through the chapter on reasons you should consider D to see myself in print, and as the ogre of the section, no less. I'm sure that with the growing pain and issues with the cancer and its med, I am a verbal abuser. Worse, perhaps is that W (and maybe her support team) believe that I'll become physically abusive the next time we meet.
Alas, I read that there's no much of a reason for her to ever trust me again. That not to say that I'm giving up, just waking up.
Alas, I read the local shelter's advice and it explicitly states to never, ever have contact with the abuser after dropping the D bomb. I expect now the worst from the letter above--just a note from her lawyer to mine to cease such communication attempts.
I did just place a call to my doctor asking about the appointment with the therapist his staff was to set up. It ends up that my county has no openings until late January. Fortunately there may be openings in a larger city 45 minutes away. Let's hope. I bet the D will be final next month, and I know I need long-term help to fix me.
The guilt is overwhelming right now. I destroyed something beautiful crafted over 30 years. I doubt that I ever needed my best friend as much as now. Well, time to GAL, fix me and get out of this dark valley--all the while hoping to say something to W again.
Back from the therapist... I believe the payload from today was permission not to trust anymore (well unless she earns it again). I was surprised how adamant he was that I needed the D. He actually seemed to express a little anger that a doctor won't make allowance for organic causes for a situation or agree to an amicable D. He offered without any prompting that I was clearly set up and that W had been planning a mean exit for some time.
I go back next week.
No answer on the letter. I believe that I will never get one.
Well... GAL sounds more and more like what I need to do first.
Back from the therapist... I believe the payload from today was permission not to trust anymore (well unless she earns it again). I was surprised how adamant he was that I needed the D. He actually seemed to express a little anger that a doctor won't make allowance for organic causes for a situation or agree to an amicable D. He offered without any prompting that I was clearly set up and that W had been planning a mean exit for some time.
I go back next week.
No answer on the letter. I believe that I will never get one.
Well... GAL sounds more and more like what I need to do first.
Well, it's time for me to face some hard truths. I got my wife's proposal for a separation agreement. The vile lies throughout. I've caused her lots of pain, clearly. I can see how what I did was right from my point of view and all so wrong from hers.
I decided to first write my responses. No a debt in our state can't be pushed to another for that reason, or that one, or... (you get the picture). I found that when I was done, that the law was going to clearly come down on my side and hurt her even more. I wish we could stop talking through the lawyers and deal more directly. I suspect I made promises that she should remind me of, and visa versa.
Next I decided that self-pity, self-recrimination, and moping about wasn't going to save our wonderful marriage. It was time for a gamble on a 180. I've decided to agree with every term but one, the dissolution. She gets all of the property. I get the debts. She get control. I go to therapy. I liquidate my business. I cash out my IRAs. I pay off the debts with the proceeds and make payments (25% of my take-home income) to retire what I don't. She agrees to cohabitation and no D for 24 months. I called it a Reconciliation Agreement. I worked hard to give her everything she wants and the one thing I want, her continued love.
I saw the first indication that LRT is working. I was allowed to drive by and stop at the end of the driveway so my elder son could drop something off. The W offered to send my winter attire back with him. The W has never acted this nice since filing for the D. (She even held my medicines from me.)
Unfortunately, my elder son pushed too hard probably and my younger son started a big fight. There was lots of shouting. The elder son stormed out.
I sat down with him shortly thereafter and went over the 180 to use with his brother. He's a psychology major and just was enthralled. I then prompted him on how to apply it to his mother. He understood. Normally he'd pout for days as my W tried to calm him down. He picked up the phone and apologized for the argument and asked to come back the next day. The W was happy. I am so proud of this 21-year-old that I cried right in front of him.
The whole family is making great progress. Even if we never reconcile, we're going to be a better family just for the support here and in DB and DR.
I'm now allowed to send letters. I'm sending the Reconciliation Agreement, a letter attesting that I haven't (and won't) vandalize her stuff or terrorize her in any way, and a letter to my younger son to allay his fear that he'd have to move out if I came back home. I'll drop off the letters through my elder (GOD LOVE HIM!) son tomorrow morning.
That great son also learned that W's lawyer is NOT forwarding most correspondence. He doesn't know how to open a Word document attached to my emails (forwarded through my lawyer). I'm so proud of my lawyer. He worked Saturday on the problem. Anyone need a great lawyer in Ohio, PM me. Heck, I'll tell you here. See Anthony Calamunci in Toledo, Ohio. I don't think there's a better guy on the planet as long as you always want to do the right thing!
